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Merckx on cavendish

Old 07-09-21, 09:27 AM
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Merckx on cavendish

I always wondered what Eddie Merckx thought about Cavendish chasing his record, since Merckx also won all manner of stages in the tour, not just sprints. His statement jives with that. He reminded everyone of his five tour wins, mountain stage wins, TT wins, etc. He did qualify it by saying he takes nothing away from him, but really, aside from stage wins, well...
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Old 07-09-21, 10:16 AM
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Old 07-09-21, 12:05 PM
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Would it be more news worthy if Merckx was irate, jumping up and down and throwing a hissy fit?
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Old 07-09-21, 12:38 PM
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Cav just equaled one of Merckx' records, he set many more. Also the race is very different, everyone is specialized and has specific roles. The length of each stage, the level of support and team work is different.

So who holds the home run record Hank Arron or the guy with the huge head? Hank did it under totally different conditions and Barry.. .well, he'll never have HOF after his name.

What makes Cav's run for the record so special is the circumstances that just a week or so before the Tour he wasn't going. And after the past few years of his health, he almost retired. Now some will say that the best sprinters dropped out of the Tour already, but as my son pointed out, the Tour is an ordeal that needs to be endured. You need to survive, be smart and BE IN IT. It also takes a lot of luck and a team that 110% supports you.

I think it would be great if the team supported MICHAEL MØRKØV for a stage win, after all, he let Cav have this stage win.
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Old 07-09-21, 01:05 PM
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I seem to remember Cav pulling out of Tours once he had won a bunch of sprints to prepare for other events, something other sprinters have done. If you plan not to finish it diminishes your achievement IMO.
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Old 07-09-21, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Caretaker View Post
I seem to remember Cav pulling out of Tours once he had won a bunch of sprints to prepare for other events, something other sprinters have done. If you plan not to finish it diminishes your achievement IMO.
This is a Cav who has grown up a lot. Came back to D-QS and basically begged them to take him back at a rider's minimum salary just so he could race again. Had no plans to ride the Tour until a week before when Sam Bennet couldn't. He did do the hard training to be at least an OK domestique for other D-QS riders and show himself out front on breaks. Those were duties he would have shunned in his former days. Now (at least so far) he is riding the whole race; yes with real sacrifice from an entire team set up around him.
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Old 07-09-21, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
This is a Cav who has grown up a lot. Came back to D-QS and basically begged them to take him back at a rider's minimum salary just so he could race again. Had no plans to ride the Tour until a week before when Sam Bennet couldn't. He did do the hard training to be at least an OK domestique for other D-QS riders and show himself out front on breaks. Those were duties he would have shunned in his former days. Now (at least so far) he is riding the whole race; yes with real sacrifice from an entire team set up around him.
If I recall, Cav also found a sponsor to put up the money for his salary.
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Old 07-09-21, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
Would it be more news worthy if Merckx was irate, jumping up and down and throwing a hissy fit?
It would, but I doubt Merckx would ever stoop to that. I think he just wanted to put it out there that there's more to the TDF than sprinting.
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Old 07-09-21, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
Cav just equaled one of Merckx' records, he set many more. Also the race is very different, everyone is specialized and has specific roles. The length of each stage, the level of support and team work is different.

So who holds the home run record Hank Arron or the guy with the huge head? Hank did it under totally different conditions and Barry.. .well, he'll never have HOF after his name.

What makes Cav's run for the record so special is the circumstances that just a week or so before the Tour he wasn't going. And after the past few years of his health, he almost retired. Now some will say that the best sprinters dropped out of the Tour already, but as my son pointed out, the Tour is an ordeal that needs to be endured. You need to survive, be smart and BE IN IT. It also takes a lot of luck and a team that 110% supports you.

I think it would be great if the team supported MICHAEL MØRKØV for a stage win, after all, he let Cav have this stage win.
Yeah, saw that. Morkov did back off to give it to Cav. All class and a great team mate. Agree with everything you say, especially the part about who the real home run champ is. If I had a vote, I'd NEVER vote for a known cheater for the hall.
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Old 07-09-21, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
I think it would be great if the team supported MICHAEL MØRKØV for a stage win, after all, he let Cav have this stage win.
Morkov is a professional, and did his job to perfection. If he stole that win from Cav, I would expect this Tour to be his last major race for DQS, and he'd be looking for new employment next year.
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Old 07-09-21, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric F View Post
Morkov is a professional, and did his job to perfection. If he stole that win from Cav, I would expect this Tour to be his last major race for DQS, and he'd be looking for new employment next year.
The DQS team is 100% professional. Everyone knows their job and does it to perfection. Cav gives all the credit to his team mates because he knows he wouldn't of won a single stage without them. It's unfortunate that in the record books under his name are the names of those that helped him get to this point.

I know that all prize money is shared with the riders and staff, but we all know who won the Tour, but not the team mates.
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Old 07-09-21, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
The DQS team is 100% professional. Everyone knows their job and does it to perfection. Cav gives all the credit to his team mates because he knows he wouldn't of won a single stage without them. It's unfortunate that in the record books under his name are the names of those that helped him get to this point.

I know that all prize money is shared with the riders and staff, but we all know who won the Tour, but not the team mates.
Such is the nature of the sport.

Cav has a specific skillset that no one else on the DQS team can match. Yes, he is benefitting from the excellent work of his team, but you can't just plug anyone into that position and get the same results. Every other team is looking to beat Cav, and even with the biggest target on his back, he still wins. This is what a champion does.

When Tiger Woods was at the top of the golf world, I heard a comment that really nailed it..."When Tiger goes to a tournament, Tiger is worried about Tiger's game. When every other golfer goes to that same tournament, they are worried about Tiger's game." Right now, in this year's sprint stages, Cav is the Tiger.
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Old 07-09-21, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric F View Post
Every other team is looking to beat Cav, and even with the biggest target on his back, he still wins. .
You sure can't miss that bright green he's wearing. Not like he can sneak up and pass you unnoticed

Is he faster than Caleb? Well.. Caleb crashed out, his own fault, so we'll never know.

The Cavendish story is a great one, we all love a comeback. (except for the H@TERS)
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Old 07-09-21, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
You sure can't miss that bright green he's wearing. Not like he can sneak up and pass you unnoticed

Is he faster than Caleb? Well.. Caleb crashed out, his own fault, so we'll never know.

The Cavendish story is a great one, we all love a comeback. (except for the H@TERS)
Everyone knows who Cav is, regardless of the color of his jersey.

IMO, it would be a VERY different story this year if Ewan was in the battle.
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Old 07-09-21, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric F View Post
Everyone knows who Cav is, regardless of the color of his jersey.

IMO, it would be a VERY different story this year if Ewan was in the battle.
"IF" is the point.

If Sam Bennett wasn't pulled at the last minute, Cav never would of made the team or had win 31.

Like my son said, you have to survive and be in it.
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Old 07-09-21, 04:13 PM
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If it wasn’t for Cav’s exploits this years version of the tour would be a snooze fest.

.
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Old 07-09-21, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
"IF" is the point.

If Sam Bennett wasn't pulled at the last minute, Cav never would of made the team or had win 31.

Like my son said, you have to survive and be in it.
Absolutely valid.
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Old 07-09-21, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Shadco View Post
If it wasn’t for Cav’s exploits this years version of the tour would be a snooze fest.

.
I don't agree. I've been very entertained, so far, not even considering Cav's wins.
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Old 07-09-21, 04:57 PM
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I think it's Merckx being a **** to be honest here. No one has said Cavendish is greater than him and I don't think Merckx should be reducing the great achievement Cavendish has done. To show how great a sprinter Cavendish is, who's currently 2nd in the number of stage wins at this tour? Overall, Merckx certainly is a better more overall rider to Cavendish but I think it's up to others to say that.
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Old 07-09-21, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
... Also the race is very different, everyone is specialized and has specific roles. The length of each stage, the level of support and team work is different.

... It also takes a lot of luck and a team that 110% supports you.

I think it would be great if the team supported MICHAEL MØRKØV for a stage win, after all, he let Cav have this stage win.
Yes, the specialization and I think even teamwork is quite different these days. Don't really know how it was in Merckx's days, not having followed races in those days and also not being a racing historian. Would be interesting if somebody with more insight would compare those old times to today's ones.

I remember that Merckx
often won stages by taking off by himself on solo rides. And that he was in a class by himself (at least in some part of his biking career), I think sometimes broke the rules like slowing down for eating breaks but I might be mistaken on this count, might have been somebody else who did that. Also recall reading about him, that he cannibalized even smaller races for prize winnings, since in those days, you probably didn't get much from contracts or that was in his earlier years of racing. Maybe Sagan could be somewhat compared to Merckx in his wining race stages without help from his team. I have the impression that Merckx wasn't much of a team rider.

Anyway, the way I read it, Cavendish evened up the numerical score but reality is quite somewhere else as to what those numbers are comprised of.

As to MØRKØV(LOL I copied the name from your quote ) who knows if he didn't have it in him to go for the win himself but for the record's sake let up a bit and let Cavendish have it. You actually say that too, except maybe you didn't mean it that way?

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Old 07-09-21, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by gpsblake View Post
I think it's Merckx being a **** to be honest here. No one has said Cavendish is greater than him and I don't think Merckx should be reducing the great achievement Cavendish has done. To show how great a sprinter Cavendish is, who's currently 2nd in the number of stage wins at this tour? Overall, Merckx certainly is a better more overall rider to Cavendish but I think it's up to others to say that.
It's the press that is hyping this. Cav never compared himself to Merckx. At the end of today's stage a reporter asked "What's it like to be the equal of Eddy Merckx?". That's a stupid question, Cav only matched one of Merckx records.

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Old 07-09-21, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric F View Post
Everyone knows who Cav is, regardless of the color of his jersey.

IMO, it would be a VERY different story this year if Ewan was in the battle.
No doubt it would have made the sprint stages more interesting but I think Cav would probably win about 50% of the sprints against Ewan. Ewan wasn't competitive in Baloise Belgium stage 5. DQS still has the strongest leadout.
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Old 07-09-21, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by dmanthree View Post
Yeah, saw that. Morkov did back off to give it to Cav. All class and a great team mate. Agree with everything you say, especially the part about who the real home run champ is. If I had a vote, I'd NEVER vote for a known cheater for the hall.
Everybody knows Merckx doped.
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Old 07-09-21, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric F View Post
Everyone knows who Cav is, regardless of the color of his jersey.

IMO, it would be a VERY different story this year if Ewan was in the battle.
Yeah, it would have been really interesting if Ewan were still in the mix

Also, Philpsen could be giving him a better run for the money if Merlier hadn't cracked.
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Old 07-09-21, 08:47 PM
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If Merckx doped, he did so at a time when doping was probably more rampant, though less sophisticated, than 1999-2005. Remember, it wasn't too much earlier when DeGaulle asked Anquetil if he used dope when he won, and he responded, a French version of, 'Of course.'
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