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Are You A Spinner Or A Grinder Up Hills?

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Old 03-08-24, 11:00 AM
  #26  
Eric F 
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For extended climbs, I'm a sit and grind type of guy. I tend to turn a lower rpm than most folks. Rolling on the flats, my comfort zone tends to be 80-85rom. On a climb, it will probably be around 70-75rpm. I will stand for a high power punch, when needed, but I generally stay seated, even when riding my singlespeed MTB. Doing low-rpm (50-55) in a big gear is a regular part of my training diet.
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Old 03-08-24, 11:05 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by KerryIrons
Or more generally, under 140 lb (10 stone, 65 kg) standing works pretty well. Over 170 lb. (12 stone, 77 kg) you spend too much energy keeping that body weight going up and down. Beyond the numbers, personal preference dominates.
The mechanics doesn't change with body weight.
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Old 03-08-24, 11:05 AM
  #28  
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Born out of the saddle climber here. Now 70 years old and I don't as much but it still where I come alive. On long climbs I'll sit but look for slight increases in gradient to stand for. My knees would much rather I stand than grind that same gear sitting. Means I can still ride bikes with highish low gears in real hills.
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Old 03-08-24, 11:32 AM
  #29  
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Depends on what mood I'm in. I imitate pros up climbs while torturing folks, "you want to get droped by Contador, Froome or Jan today?" I'm still working on my Pog shoulder rock/shrug way out front out of the saddle thing...
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Old 03-08-24, 11:51 AM
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I have found a definite relationship between age and cadence when climbing. Which is dependent upon the inversely proportionality of gear inches to age.

As I age I spin more. As I spin more gear inches keep going down.

John
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Old 03-08-24, 12:30 PM
  #31  
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I spin a ridiculously easy gear for everything I do, whether climbing, cruising or accelerating. I learned in my early 50's that I no longer had the knees of a teenager when I could accelerate from a stop in a 52 tooth ring and the 14 tooth sprocket of my 6 speed freewheel.
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Old 03-08-24, 01:41 PM
  #32  
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I ride single speed so cadence tends to be slower up many hills, seated or standing. It may seem counterintuitive but often I stand up on the climbs in order to rest, since on the steeper ones, staying seated means I’m really working hard to keep the cadence up despite the workload. On some short steep climbs I stay seated until the reaction force starts to lift me out of the saddle.

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Old 03-08-24, 03:24 PM
  #33  
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With Zandoval, I walk, or, more accurately, trudge.
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Old 03-08-24, 03:54 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
The mechanics doesn't change with body weight.
No, but the weight you're lifting on each pedal stroke does. Standing on the pedals, your body rises slightly (relative to the bike) as one pedal reaches the bottom of the stroke and the other is at the top
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Old 03-08-24, 03:56 PM
  #35  
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Having quite radically changed my riding position to a much more forward and low and now pedaling with feet pointing down slightly, I'm much more of spinner than formerly where I had to typically stand because I was too far back to effectively spin and push down and back. Even when I stand on short punchy climbs my feet are pointed slightly down now. I was a slight heel dropper my whole life(ala Lemond/Guilmard), I never even considered changing the angle as I don't think was possible being so far back. Now it's totally natural as I'm so far forward and on 150mm cranks, despite being a somewhat tall 74" and proportional length legs. After a number of years of not riding with low drop bars I'm enjoying it now more than I ever did, hot damm !
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Old 03-08-24, 04:17 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by genejockey
No, but the weight you're lifting on each pedal stroke does. Standing on the pedals, your body rises slightly (relative to the bike) as one pedal reaches the bottom of the stroke and the other is at the top.
It doesn't matter. A heavier rider pays the same weight penalty with respect to a lighter rider, whether they're both sitting or both standing during the climb.
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Old 03-08-24, 04:20 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
It doesn't matter. A heavier rider pays the same weight penalty with respect to a lighter rider, whether they're both sitting or both standing during the climb.
In the sense that they're each lifting their own body weight, yes. But the heavier rider is, you know, heavier.
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Old 03-08-24, 04:32 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by genejockey
In the sense that they're each lifting their own body weight, yes. But the heavier rider is, you know, heavier.
"Lifting their own body weight" is a red herring -- all riders lift their own body weight while standing. Standing doesn't impose any additional "weight penalty" on heavier riders beyond the simple linear mass dependence.
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Old 03-08-24, 04:56 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
"Lifting their own body weight" is a red herring -- all riders lift their own body weight while standing. Standing doesn't impose any additional "weight penalty" on heavier riders beyond the simple linear mass dependence.
No, it's not a red herring. Every pedal stroke, I'm lifting 60 more pounds than a guy who weighs 145. It takes more power to do that, and the ability to put out watts, while proportional to body mass is NOT a linear function, or if it is, has a slope <1.
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Old 03-08-24, 06:07 PM
  #40  
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Most riders vary their power, cadence, and crank torque depending on the length of the climb and steepness, so most of us are both spinners and grinders, depending on the gradient and how "motivated" we are.

Here's a plot of a rider during a hilly stage of the old Tour of California (the stage started in San Jose, went up and over Mt. Hamilton, and ended in Modesto). Note the relationships between power, cadence, crank torque, and gradient. There was no single cadence nor single crank torque that the rider climbed at but, in general, the steeper the slope the lower the cadence and the higher the torque.


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Old 03-08-24, 06:11 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by genejockey
No, it's not a red herring. Every pedal stroke, I'm lifting 60 more pounds than a guy who weighs 145. It takes more power to do that, and the ability to put out watts, while proportional to body mass is NOT a linear function, or if it is, has a slope <1.
A statement was made that there is an additional penalty for heavier riders (as compared to lighter riders) if they climb while standing because "you spend too much energy keeping that body weight going up and down", and you have echoed that. That statement is either incorrect or misleading, depending on how you look at it, and that is what my comment addressed.

Heavier riders expend more energy climbing than lighter riders, and the difference scales (roughly) with the mass of the riders. But, there is no additional penalty on heavier riders when both riders are standing -- the difference still scales (roughly) with the mass of the riders. For example, if a heavier rider expends 10% more energy climbing than a lighter rider when both riders are sitting, he will also expend 10% more energy when both are standing.
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Old 03-08-24, 06:25 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
A statement was made that there is an additional penalty for heavier riders (as compared to lighter riders) if they climb while standing because "you spend too much energy keeping that body weight going up and down", and you have echoed that. That statement is either incorrect or misleading, depending on how you look at it, and that is what my comment addressed.

Heavier riders expend more energy climbing than lighter riders, and the difference scales (roughly) with the mass of the riders. But, there is no additional penalty on heavier riders when both riders are standing -- the difference still scales (roughly) with the mass of the riders. For example, if a heavier rider expends 10% more energy climbing than a lighter rider when both riders are sitting, he will also expend 10% more energy when both are standing.
This is why climbers in the World Tour come in all shapes and sizes. Why, who could forget Magnus Backstedt's amazing win on Alpe D'Huez.....
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Old 03-08-24, 06:31 PM
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I try to spin a fast seated cadence if possible. Occasionally, when standing, I can hit the perfect cadence for a moderate slope, where the resistance is just right and I'm not pushing too hard for my legs or getting out of my best aerobic zone. Most times when standing, I settle for slight "recovery" hesitations while pedaling, mostly to control the climbing pace.

I know some strong climbers that can do this standing cruise effortlessly. For me, it's difficult to do correctly.
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Old 03-08-24, 06:34 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by genejockey
This is why climbers in the World Tour come in all shapes and sizes. Why, who could forget Magnus Backstedt's amazing win on Alpe D'Huez.....
I think you're still missing the point. Heavier riders are generally at a disadvantage when climbing -- because W/kg favors lighter riders -- but heavier riders don't suffer an additional disadvantage when standing.
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Old 03-08-24, 06:40 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
I think you're still missing the point. Heavier riders are generally at a disadvantage when climbing -- because W/kg favors lighter riders -- but heavier riders don't suffer an additional disadvantage when standing.
Yeah, no. I think you've got the wrong end of the stick here, because empirical observation indicates otherwise. There's a reason flyweights often do long climbs standing but larger riders do them seated.
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Old 03-08-24, 06:47 PM
  #46  
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We have NO choice if we are in the last gear. LOL.
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Old 03-08-24, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
Yeah, no. I think you've got the wrong end of the stick here, because empirical observation indicates otherwise. There's a reason flyweights often do long climbs standing but larger riders do them seated.
Very few cyclists of any weight do long climbs standing. The vast majority of cyclists spend most of their time sitting, and stand occasionally. The amount they stand seems to be based mostly on personal preference, much like cadence is largely a matter of personal preference.
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Old 03-08-24, 08:24 PM
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Ok, dumb question (maybe). If I am in a climb does it risk damage to shift gears up ir down when I am pushing hard on the pedals?
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Old 03-08-24, 08:52 PM
  #49  
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Andy Hampsten was once asked what was the best way to maximize climbing speed, spin low gears or grind big gears. His answer: spin big gears. My reality: grind low gears. My main functions on hilly group rides are (1) giving everyone else nice breaks at the tops of hills waiting for me and (2) making everyone else feel better about themselves ("At least I don't climb as slow as that guy . . . .").

As a point of reference, compared to me, genejockey is a spindly-legged climbing fart. Gravity is very much not my friend going uphill.
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Old 03-08-24, 09:08 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
Very few cyclists of any weight do long climbs standing. The vast majority of cyclists spend most of their time sitting, and stand occasionally. The amount they stand seems to be based mostly on personal preference, much like cadence is largely a matter of personal preference.
I'm sorry, but that's nonsense. I might believe you if I were new to this sport, but I'm not, and I have eyes. And legs.
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