contador, disrespected?
10-31-09, 09:13 AM
#26
Bike ≠ Car ≠ Ped.
Contador has been sounding like a brat, yes, but it also takes a huge ego to want other riders to help you win. And the whole Alberto vs. Lance thing -- if Lance wanted to win, he should've been faster.
10-31-09, 09:25 AM
#27
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"Lance is right, it's a TEAM sport'"
The "team" concept of a grand tour is overblown. Short of a team time trial (which only happens every few years), these tours are won on 2-3 mountain-top finishes and in the time trials. It is very rare that the strongest rider doesn't win irregardless of the team. Name a recent tour where someone won the TT's and mountain top finishes but lost because his team wasn't as strong.
The "team" concept of a grand tour is overblown. Short of a team time trial (which only happens every few years), these tours are won on 2-3 mountain-top finishes and in the time trials. It is very rare that the strongest rider doesn't win irregardless of the team. Name a recent tour where someone won the TT's and mountain top finishes but lost because his team wasn't as strong.
10-31-09, 09:57 AM
#29
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I respect him as a rider, but I think he's an enormous ******.
Last edited by Walter; 10-31-09 at 04:18 PM. Reason: corrected spelling
10-31-09, 11:09 AM
#30
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He dumped his whole team, not just Lance. he didn't want to keep pace and help out anyone. It was all about him.
The fact was, if he worked with his team, they could have taken all three top spots. As it was, only Lance got on the podium with him. And only because Lance is Lance. I'm sorry, but after watching, it seemed so obvious that Conty tossed his whole away like a dirty rag for self glory. That's not what I would call a team mate. Then the guy insults Lance out of jealousy. Say what you want, but that kid is a snob.
Like I said, I used to really like him, but.... Until he proves otherwise, that 's my view of him now. I hate to say it, but it's true.
The fact was, if he worked with his team, they could have taken all three top spots. As it was, only Lance got on the podium with him. And only because Lance is Lance. I'm sorry, but after watching, it seemed so obvious that Conty tossed his whole away like a dirty rag for self glory. That's not what I would call a team mate. Then the guy insults Lance out of jealousy. Say what you want, but that kid is a snob.
Like I said, I used to really like him, but.... Until he proves otherwise, that 's my view of him now. I hate to say it, but it's true.
Interestingly my thoughts change opposite yours. I was (and generally am) a Lance fan, and didn't really care either way about Contador, but after the tour I have a bit less respect for Lance and a bit more for Contador.
It's a complicated situation, and there are many ways to look at what happened. And the thing is, none of us know what really went on behind the scenes. We're just a peanut gallery.
10-31-09, 11:15 AM
#31
out walking the earth
"Lance is right, it's a TEAM sport'"
The "team" concept of a grand tour is overblown. Short of a team time trial (which only happens every few years), these tours are won on 2-3 mountain-top finishes and in the time trials. It is very rare that the strongest rider doesn't win irregardless of the team. Name a recent tour where someone won the TT's and mountain top finishes but lost because his team wasn't as strong.
The "team" concept of a grand tour is overblown. Short of a team time trial (which only happens every few years), these tours are won on 2-3 mountain-top finishes and in the time trials. It is very rare that the strongest rider doesn't win irregardless of the team. Name a recent tour where someone won the TT's and mountain top finishes but lost because his team wasn't as strong.
10-31-09, 11:42 AM
#32
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That is truer than most people know.
I think the fact that Lance left Astana to make his own team again, is one indication that he was very unhappy with the team atmosphere. I've seen many interviews with Lance where he regularly would hold back on stages to stay pace with his team. The only time he ever considered leaving them, was when his overall was seriously threatened. Like in his last win of the tour, he was very unhappy with his teams pace, so he had to leave them behind to keep his placing. The next day they came back and did much better. Lance still won the tour, but he continued to work with his team so they all placed better overall than without him.
I guess you're right in a way, but Conty's placing was never threatened to any extent. He dropped his team for a moment of glory when he didn't need to. That really irked alot of people. And because of that, the 3rd spot on the podium was lost. I in no way am saying he should sacrifice his win for the team. That's ridiculous. However, if your win is not threatened, then one should stick with the team so everyone can place better. This also helps with funding. If the whole team is consistently garnering more points, then the funding and overall placement tends to roll in as well.
If you remember, even competitors tend to treat each other better. When Lance crashed on his climb in stage 15 of TdF 2003, Ullrich slowed down and waited to at least see if Lance would recover. That's called general curtousy among riders. Dumping your whole team for a moment of glory for no reason, is just sad.
Even with that being the case, I could easily forgive him for his moment of glory. What really ticks me off is the way he treated one the greatest cyclists in history. Lance, Jan, Ivan, or most other top riders would never have done that.
(All this said, I don't think this will end our disagreement. I have my opinion, you have yours, and I think that's just the way it will stand. Such is life.)
I think the fact that Lance left Astana to make his own team again, is one indication that he was very unhappy with the team atmosphere. I've seen many interviews with Lance where he regularly would hold back on stages to stay pace with his team. The only time he ever considered leaving them, was when his overall was seriously threatened. Like in his last win of the tour, he was very unhappy with his teams pace, so he had to leave them behind to keep his placing. The next day they came back and did much better. Lance still won the tour, but he continued to work with his team so they all placed better overall than without him.
I guess you're right in a way, but Conty's placing was never threatened to any extent. He dropped his team for a moment of glory when he didn't need to. That really irked alot of people. And because of that, the 3rd spot on the podium was lost. I in no way am saying he should sacrifice his win for the team. That's ridiculous. However, if your win is not threatened, then one should stick with the team so everyone can place better. This also helps with funding. If the whole team is consistently garnering more points, then the funding and overall placement tends to roll in as well.
If you remember, even competitors tend to treat each other better. When Lance crashed on his climb in stage 15 of TdF 2003, Ullrich slowed down and waited to at least see if Lance would recover. That's called general curtousy among riders. Dumping your whole team for a moment of glory for no reason, is just sad.
Even with that being the case, I could easily forgive him for his moment of glory. What really ticks me off is the way he treated one the greatest cyclists in history. Lance, Jan, Ivan, or most other top riders would never have done that.
(All this said, I don't think this will end our disagreement. I have my opinion, you have yours, and I think that's just the way it will stand. Such is life.)
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Last edited by Patriot; 10-31-09 at 11:47 AM.
10-31-09, 12:03 PM
#33
Weapons grade stupidity
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Was there more to it than that? Because that's hardly what I'd call treating someone poorly. Hell, that doesn't even rank as decent smack talk.
10-31-09, 03:45 PM
#34
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He dumped his whole team, not just Lance. he didn't want to keep pace and help out anyone. It was all about him.
The fact was, if he worked with his team, they could have taken all three top spots. As it was, only Lance got on the podium with him. And only because Lance is Lance. I'm sorry, but after watching, it seemed so obvious that Conty tossed his whole away like a dirty rag for self glory. That's not what I would call a team mate. Then the guy insults Lance out of jealousy. Say what you want, but that kid is a snob.
Like I said, I used to really like him, but.... Until he proves otherwise, that 's my view of him now. I hate to say it, but it's true.
The fact was, if he worked with his team, they could have taken all three top spots. As it was, only Lance got on the podium with him. And only because Lance is Lance. I'm sorry, but after watching, it seemed so obvious that Conty tossed his whole away like a dirty rag for self glory. That's not what I would call a team mate. Then the guy insults Lance out of jealousy. Say what you want, but that kid is a snob.
Like I said, I used to really like him, but.... Until he proves otherwise, that 's my view of him now. I hate to say it, but it's true.
10-31-09, 04:22 PM
#36
SLJ 6/8/65-5/2/07
I fixed the typo in the title as well as a few other "typos."
I'm not sure if this belongs in Pro Cycling or not....
I'm not sure if this belongs in Pro Cycling or not....
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10-31-09, 04:53 PM
#37
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Exactly right. He will ride next years tour exactly the same as he did this year - sit on Lance's wheel and attack on the climbs and the TT's.
10-31-09, 06:26 PM
#38
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I don't see any evidence of "disrespect" in the article. Everyone pretty much acknowledges Contador's dominance at this point. I, too, got the vibe that he was a spoiled, vindictive guy from the TdF. Regardless of what you think of Lance or AC, the two clearly do not get along.
Can anyone who is familiar with the UCI license process explain this failure? Astana really looks like a @#$%-up of a team run by a people with money who don't really have their S together. Or is it possible that AC doesn't want to play ball with them on any level? Who ever heard of a Kazakhi cycling team anyway? That's right, I said it. 
Apparently once Astana failed to secure their license all riders under contract with Astana are now free to leave and seek other teams with no repercussions, financial or otherwise.
10-31-09, 06:35 PM
#39
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What I can't believe is how so many people dump on Lance... Contador can't get respect, please... Lance had won 7 tours, battled cancer, and had done more for cycling than anyone has ever done, but yet everyone on here claims he's the antichrist. Good luck Contador.
There's an old saying, "Everyone hates the winner, so it's better to be hated." Just wait Alberto, you win 5 more and you'll really see what disrespected means.
There's an old saying, "Everyone hates the winner, so it's better to be hated." Just wait Alberto, you win 5 more and you'll really see what disrespected means.
10-31-09, 07:22 PM
#40
shedding fat
If you really wanna see disrespect, talk to Sastre, Pereiro, and Evans. They have tons to say I'm sure.
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11-01-09, 07:42 AM
#41
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I actually liked him until he dumped his own team to obtain self-glory. He still would have won the tour, but he only gave a hoot about himself.
Lance is right, it's a TEAM sport
V
