Die SRAM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Die SRAM
https://www.velonews.com/gear/tech-we...-power-meters/
I love my G3's. Buy and kill I hope they die.
I love my G3's. Buy and kill I hope they die.
Likes For popeye:
#3
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Likes For popeye:
#4
Should Be More Popular
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malvern, PA (20 miles West of Philly)
Posts: 43,091
Bikes: 1986 Alpine (steel road bike), 2009 Ti Habenero, 2013 Specialized Roubaix
Mentioned: 560 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22628 Post(s)
Liked 8,952 Times
in
4,172 Posts
Likes For datlas:
#5
I am potato.
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 3,122
Bikes: Only precision built, custom high performance elitist machines of the highest caliber. 🍆
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1793 Post(s)
Liked 1,637 Times
in
938 Posts
I've been grumpy about SRAM for quite some time now. Not that I'm jaded or anything. It's standard practice to buy the competition & scuttle any competing products.
Quarq did make good on my C1 chain ring replacement with a new DZero Dub, so there is that. But, that don't mean I feel good about it. $500 + new rings is a lot to eat because corporate global domination schemes.
You wouldn't believe how long & hard I searched for the discontinued Powertap Disc 32 hole hub. I had to re-import one from a warehouse in Switzerland at OEM price, plus shipping. I recently found another NIB/NOS, 3000 miles on eBay. I just can't see the sense of spending $700 on a 24 or 28 hole carbon wheel set to save $12 in spokes. 32 spokes on aluminum rims is plenty good enough for 99.999% of the customer base.
They've done bunches of little irritating stuff along the way. I'm not a fan & cousel every one I know to steer clear. Way to have business savvy, SRAM. I know lots of enthusiastic cyclists running competing brands/products because of me...& they've all been happy about the change.
Quarq did make good on my C1 chain ring replacement with a new DZero Dub, so there is that. But, that don't mean I feel good about it. $500 + new rings is a lot to eat because corporate global domination schemes.
You wouldn't believe how long & hard I searched for the discontinued Powertap Disc 32 hole hub. I had to re-import one from a warehouse in Switzerland at OEM price, plus shipping. I recently found another NIB/NOS, 3000 miles on eBay. I just can't see the sense of spending $700 on a 24 or 28 hole carbon wheel set to save $12 in spokes. 32 spokes on aluminum rims is plenty good enough for 99.999% of the customer base.
They've done bunches of little irritating stuff along the way. I'm not a fan & cousel every one I know to steer clear. Way to have business savvy, SRAM. I know lots of enthusiastic cyclists running competing brands/products because of me...& they've all been happy about the change.
Last edited by base2; 02-12-21 at 07:25 PM.
Likes For base2:
#6
Clark W. Griswold
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 13,642
Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Salsa Timberjack Ti, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Phil Wood Apple VeloXS Frame (w/DA 7400), R+M Supercharger2 Rohloff, Habanero Ti 26
Mentioned: 55 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4407 Post(s)
Liked 4,048 Times
in
2,700 Posts
Likes For veganbikes:
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 8,922
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4717 Post(s)
Liked 1,882 Times
in
998 Posts
I've been grumpy about SRAM for quite some time now. Not that I'm jaded or anything. It's standard practice to buy the competition & scuttle any competing products.
They've done bunches of little irritating stuff along the way. I'm not a fan & cousel every one I know to steer clear. Way to have business savvy, SRAM. I know lots of enthusiastic cyclists running competing brands/products because of me...& they've all been happy about the change.
They've done bunches of little irritating stuff along the way. I'm not a fan & cousel every one I know to steer clear. Way to have business savvy, SRAM. I know lots of enthusiastic cyclists running competing brands/products because of me...& they've all been happy about the change.
Likes For noodle soup:
#8
Senior Member
Thread Starter
It's not just SRAM, I think I'm more pissed at Wahoooo for buying Speedplay. These are some of the best products out there.
#10
Disco Infiltrator
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Folsom CA
Posts: 13,459
Bikes: Stormchaser, Paramount, Tilt, Samba tandem
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3130 Post(s)
Liked 2,111 Times
in
1,374 Posts
My employer is being acquired this year. No idea if the job will remain, much less what decals will be on the products next year. But some part of us will still be making the same kind of thing. I think most of us... we are not redundant within our buyer. Our present corporate history is shared between a WW2-vintage aerospace manufacturer and a tire company, and M&A are going on all the time.
__________________
Genesis 49:16-17
Genesis 49:16-17
Last edited by Darth Lefty; 02-12-21 at 11:52 PM.
#11
Full Member
Yes - they likely acquired PowerTap to kill it, as it was competition. If you think the conservative case against anti-trust enforcement makes sense.....well, see here.
However, there are so many other options, and so many of those options are more effective than PowerTap, not sure it is the biggest issue, PowerTap always had issues.
(a) Weight for when racing.
(b) Wheel swapping
Just to name a few.
However, there are so many other options, and so many of those options are more effective than PowerTap, not sure it is the biggest issue, PowerTap always had issues.
(a) Weight for when racing.
(b) Wheel swapping
Just to name a few.
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: location location
Posts: 3,035
Bikes: MBK Super Mirage 1991, CAAD10, Yuba Mundo Lux, and a Cannondale Criterium Single Speed
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 344 Post(s)
Liked 297 Times
in
207 Posts
All that’s left is that SRAM still call one of their groups “Rival.”
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Music City, USA
Posts: 4,444
Bikes: bikes
Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2622 Post(s)
Liked 1,429 Times
in
711 Posts
I got my first powertap in 2005. Bearings/hub were so awful it had to be sent back every six to nine months or so, but since the only alternative were $2000+ SRMs, it was gold.
I still have a G3 on my time trial bike, and a C1 on my road bike. Such a shame.
I still have a G3 on my time trial bike, and a C1 on my road bike. Such a shame.
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,979
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3968 Post(s)
Liked 7,386 Times
in
2,972 Posts
PowerTap hubs had their day, but I can't imagine they were big sellers anymore.
Likes For tomato coupe:
#16
I'm good to go!
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 15,071
Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6240 Post(s)
Liked 4,840 Times
in
3,337 Posts
As long as they continue to honor any warranty and service them why be so bothered? Aren't there plenty of other great PM's out there now?
Even though I don't use any SRAM products, I thought I'd heard they still honor the stuff for other products they've discontinued.
Even though I don't use any SRAM products, I thought I'd heard they still honor the stuff for other products they've discontinued.
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,520
Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo
Mentioned: 354 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20810 Post(s)
Liked 9,456 Times
in
4,672 Posts
Yeah, I had one back in the day - it was a great value relative to the few other options out there. With its limitations and the current options on the market, though? Nope - never even a consideration when it was time for a new PM.
#18
Perceptual Dullard
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,444
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 931 Post(s)
Liked 1,178 Times
in
505 Posts
The G3 hub weighed less than a stock Shimano Ultegra hub, and way less than a 105 hub. In addition, you didn't need a separate speed sensor, which saved another 35-40 g (depending on which speed sensor you buy). So even the lightest alternative, a single-sided Stages or 4IIII added weight while a PT G3 hub could subtract weight, depending on what stock hub you were replacing it with. And it measured total power, not just one side.
Likes For RChung:
#22
Perceptual Dullard
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,444
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 931 Post(s)
Liked 1,178 Times
in
505 Posts
I agree. The most important characteristic of a power meter is that it helps you answer your questions, not raise a new one ("I wonder if that's because my power meter isn't telling me the truth?"). Features are nice, portability is nice, price is nice, the way it looks is nice -- but being able to rely on the data you're getting is key. That's why you get a power meter.
Last edited by RChung; 02-15-21 at 01:38 PM.
Likes For RChung:
#23
I eat carbide.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 21,627
Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1325 Post(s)
Liked 1,307 Times
in
560 Posts
Been involved in this one to a small bit. My company exists because of powertap products. I built over 1,000 powertap wheels early on.
Then it dropped to nothing. We even went up to the Saris headquarters and had a meeting to go over what was going on. "We just saw it drop to nothing nearly overnight. Are we an outlier or is this happening with other builders/dealers?" "Oh it's happening with everyone. demand disappeared."
2 years or so ago when saris dumped the price to the public they reduced the wholesale margin to 20% for non-stocking dealers and something like 23% if you stocked. In short they just told everyone they wanted to be consumer direct. That was to pull in every single buck they could still get off the product line.
I had a buddy whose wife raced for our team. He was put in charge as the product manager on Powertap at Saris. The next week they sold it to SRAM. He was blindsided. They never gave him a heads up. They knew the sale was going through as they gave him his promotion (that's typical in any industry though).
I had no real belief that anything was going to be done with powertap. Saris was looking to offload brands and is now back to just Saris on everything. SRAM is always looking to buy IP and tech. Everyone has been chasing Pedal based power meters. Don't count out more power options from SRAM in the long term.
I called last October maybe to get a new electronics pod and discuss the possibility of upgrading the customers hub anyway (swap). They told me then that powertap was dead. Said they would continue to supply parts and recalibrations could still be done at Quarq in SD. Said they had sold the last new hub earlier in the week.
For everyone that says it was great and they loved the product: yes it was a proven product that was stable and performed extremely well....but all of you stopped buying it. It is now gone. Things change. *shrug*
Then it dropped to nothing. We even went up to the Saris headquarters and had a meeting to go over what was going on. "We just saw it drop to nothing nearly overnight. Are we an outlier or is this happening with other builders/dealers?" "Oh it's happening with everyone. demand disappeared."
2 years or so ago when saris dumped the price to the public they reduced the wholesale margin to 20% for non-stocking dealers and something like 23% if you stocked. In short they just told everyone they wanted to be consumer direct. That was to pull in every single buck they could still get off the product line.
I had a buddy whose wife raced for our team. He was put in charge as the product manager on Powertap at Saris. The next week they sold it to SRAM. He was blindsided. They never gave him a heads up. They knew the sale was going through as they gave him his promotion (that's typical in any industry though).
I had no real belief that anything was going to be done with powertap. Saris was looking to offload brands and is now back to just Saris on everything. SRAM is always looking to buy IP and tech. Everyone has been chasing Pedal based power meters. Don't count out more power options from SRAM in the long term.
I called last October maybe to get a new electronics pod and discuss the possibility of upgrading the customers hub anyway (swap). They told me then that powertap was dead. Said they would continue to supply parts and recalibrations could still be done at Quarq in SD. Said they had sold the last new hub earlier in the week.
For everyone that says it was great and they loved the product: yes it was a proven product that was stable and performed extremely well....but all of you stopped buying it. It is now gone. Things change. *shrug*
__________________
PSIMET Wheels, PSIMET Racing, PSIMET Neutral Race Support, and 11 Jackson Coffee
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels
Likes For Psimet2001:
#24
I eat carbide.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 21,627
Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1325 Post(s)
Liked 1,307 Times
in
560 Posts
....as for hating SRAM - there are so many other things someone could take issue with.
In general I love the people there and will continue to support our hometown company. That said...I do tend to buy a lot of Shimano stuff. YMMV
In general I love the people there and will continue to support our hometown company. That said...I do tend to buy a lot of Shimano stuff. YMMV
__________________
PSIMET Wheels, PSIMET Racing, PSIMET Neutral Race Support, and 11 Jackson Coffee
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels
Likes For Psimet2001:
#25
Senior Member
That's exactly the problem with products that work and work and last. You will eventually sell yourself out of a job. Unless you come up with something new, of course.