Lombard

Yes, to a degree. Though as someone with back problems who is always trying to get up higher, there is only so far you can go - especially now that just about all bikes have carbon steerers that prohibit the use of extenders and also have limits on the number of spacers you can put under the stem.

As far as the OP, you may have noticed I did ask him for missing information and he still has yet to reply.

A01082919

Hi I didn’t think that size is important. I’m 5’7, but I’m looking at 51cm for CAAD13 and 48 for Synapse. The Synapse just felt huge compared to an optimo 51 I have, so thought about downsizing.

If the fit of the optimo is better than perhaps the CAAD13 is the way to go down.

mstateglfr 

For sure- someone with back problems may need a different fit and gravitate to the option with more stack and less reach.
The OP didn't mention any flexibility issues though and the examples I cited simply don't have enough variance in geometry to say one will be noticeably better than the other for a rider with pain or limited mobility. Frankly, neither seems ideal for that.
When compared to options across the categories, a Synapse is pretty aggressive on geometry compared to a Domaine, for example. This is why I advised the OP to ignore the marketing label and focus on actual geometry.

In the OP's case, they want a bike that won't hold them back. That, to me, means no back pain or other limitations. In that case, a Synapse stem being lowered 15mm and adjusted in length to match the stock CAAD setup is absolutely possible. Or if the OP needs a larger frame, then the differences are even smaller(see the geometry screenshot) and even more easily matched.

Simply flipping a 100mm long 6deg stem so it's -6 results in 20mm of bar drop. That alone, a stem flip, more than accounts for the stack height difference between models in the smaller size.

My initial point was to try and show that neither bike is going to hold the OP back and that it's largely a waste to focus on the idea that 'endurance' is slower or more sluggish feeling(since steering and chainstay are either identical or so similar it won't be noticed).

mstateglfr 

What model year are the Synapse and caad13?
What model year is your Optimo?
What don't you like about your Optimo that you hope to change with a new bike?

These are all helpful questions to have answers to.

Lombard

Understood.

A01082919

the Optimo 2, is the 2022 model, all the bikes mention are brand new and latest model.

the Optimo bike is amazing, loved everything about it. Just a lingering thought, if I looked cooler and would I be faster on a nicer/lighter bike. I was just curious what the next realm of upgrades would get me for an extra 1000 budget I have. I’m having a blast riding and an upgrade isn’t necessary. Just wanted something nice for myself

A01082919

yea correct, I guess I wanted my first serious road bike

mstateglfr 

Hang on here - you have a 2022 Optimo already? Just take the geometry of your bike, since you said you love it, and see which other bike closely mirrors the Optimo geometry.
I figured you were coming to this with no road bike experience, but you have a caad right now.

OK, pretty sure I'm out after this as getting useful info has been difficult and you already have a bike to compare others to.

Below is a caad optimo in 51, a caad 13 in 51, and a Synapse in 48.
Once more- your current bike and the two you are asking about will all be more capable than what you currently need or will likely need in the future. None will hold you back and all can be set up to be essentially the same fit.
Based on geometry below, the Synapse won't feel sluggish or slow steering compared to the Optimo or 13.

A01082919

Hey everyone,

After seeing the chart provided by the friend above, was down sizing the synapse for 51 to 48 the correct decision to reach the measurements of my beloved Optimo 2?

The issue now is that CAAD13 is the bigger bike among the 3 bikes, Optimo, Synapse and CAAD13.

the Synapse 51 was a completed nightmare, it felt like a 53-54 road bike. I was just too stretched out and don’t want to run a risk of that. The Optimo, although 51, for some reason it works perfectly.

thanks every one for their help! Still haven’t figured out the best, bike, but getting closer with all the considerations and perspectives

zastolj

This is odd, the Synapse 51 should be close to identical to the Optimo 51 fit-wise. Synapse has a 0,2 mm longer reach but even that is probably offset by the much slacker head angle, which brings the stem a hair closer. There must have been a difference in setup that caused you to feel that much longer on the Synapse you tried; stem length, handlebar geometry or saddle fore/aft.

If I were you, I would get myself some nice wheels for the Optimo and be done with it. It is a serious road bike to me. The Synapse might not even be that much lighter than the Optimo depending on the models. With all that money you could upgrade the heck out of that Optimo and make it much lighter and more aero.

Lombard

My guess is the Synapse and the CAAD13 are actually heavier than the Optimo since they have disc brakes which add a little weight. So you won't be saving any weight.

Looking at specs for the Optimo, it is outfitted with Vittoria Zaffiro tires which are pretty entry level. You will most likely feel a difference getting more supple tires like the Vittoria Rubinos or even Corsas if you can afford them. I know that's not as blingy as a new bike or even a new set of wheels, but much less expensive.

Jughed

Carbon isn't always = to better. Carbon typically costs more - but isn't necessarily better, lighter or come with better ride qualities. And the frame may not be built as well as a higher end aluminum frame.

You are looking at a cheap(er), lower tier carbon frame, vs a top of the line aluminum frame. Personally, I will take the top of the line aluminum over cheap carbon every time.

Ride both and see... I have 3 bikes, two carbon (one cheap open mold and one mid grade Giant) and an aluminum frame (Emonda) - the Emonda is better in every way compared to the CF bikes. Its stiffer where its needed, smoother and has better power transfer - the bike also has a better overall feel.

Lombard

^^^This. Frame geometry has a lot more to do with ride quality than frame material. Any frame material can be made to have any ride quality.

I would not consider the Synapse a lower tier carbon frame. The main things that make a bike more of less expensive are the components on it.

Jughed

Is the Synapse made with different grades/layups of their frames across the range of models? Or do all models share the same frame? Asking because I don't know... if they do all share the same, then the CF frame may just be a better option.

A01082919

This is the consensus that I’m trying to get around. You addressed the elephant in the room.

SoSmellyAir

Then what is your basis for calling it "a cheap(er), lower tier carbon frame"?

In the prior two generations, there were two versions of the CF Synapse frame: regular and Hi-Mod (i.e., higher modulus carbon fibers, so lighter). But I have not seen this distinction in the current generation. Regardless, as Lombard said, I would not consider any version of the CF Synapse "a cheap(er), lower tier carbon frame."

Jughed

My basis, if they still make two grades of frames, is that the lower grade frame is lower tier than the higher grade frame. So, it's both cheaper, and lower tier than the higher grade.

If they no longer do this - then I have no basis. That is why I asked...

My statement, and my personal opinion is - the high teir, top spec aluminum frames can be very close to equal, or better, than the same manufactures lower tier versions of their CF frames. Many times you pay 1k+ more and get nothing in terms of performance, ride quality, even weight. And that 1k more typically gets you a lessor groupset.

Trek for example - Emonda SL5 (low tier CF) vs ALR5 (high tier aluminum) - in terms of the Trek lineup
19.55# vs 19.92#
$1050 more for the CF - $1050 for a few ounces of weight savings
Many people will say the ALR frame is as good or even better that the SL

The only reason for my point was to answer the question - why do some people prefer the CAAD vs the Synapse, and is the higher price with lower groupset "worth it"

IMHO - it's not worth it.
"

SoSmellyAir

1. Makes total sense: Emonda SL 5 vs. Emonda ALR5. Both are race bikes have the same geometry and the same purpose.
2. Makes no sense: Synapse Carbon vs. CAAD13. The current Synapse is an endurance bike which is marketed as more of a lifestyle bike and not really comparable to a race bike.
3. Makes more sense: SuperSix EVO vs. CAAD13. See #1.

mstateglfr 

Cannondale recently released Lab71 bikes. These frames weigh a handful of grams less than the 'regular' frames. By your logic, now that there are two grades of frame, the lower grade frame is a lower tier also.
In reality, that 'lower grade' frame can still be exponentially better than almost anything else on the market.
Its disingenuous to just claim a frame that isnt the highest tier frame is therefore a low grade frame.

Jughed

Yep...

And, I was just responding to the OP's "cons" list. He listed aluminum as a con - I was responding to how it may not be a con.

mstateglfr 

Explain to me how one of these is a 'lifestyle bike' while the other is a 'race bike'. These are the frame sizes I would ride, if I owned either bike. The stack and reach measurements are so close that a stem swap will account for the difference. A handlebar swap would do much of the same too. Both of those are common changes that people make when they buy a bike, so its not like there is extreme adjusting required.
Trail measurement is the same, so they will feel the same at the front end when steering. Chainstay length is so close that the difference is not even perceptible when riding. Seat tube angles will easily allow the rider to get an identical saddle position on both bikes. Wheelbase length is the same. Front Center measurement is nearly identical. BB drop is basically the same, so the bikes will feel the same for someone 'sitting on vs sitting in' the bikes.

How is that Synapse not really comparable to a race bike, when the CAAD13 is a race bike?

A01082919

Can you tell me what you mean by a life style bike?

Will the specs of the Synapse allow me to travel on light gravel with 700C tires that it comes stocked with? If it can allow more versatility, I can trade it for the “speed” which the CAAD13 is made for. I can lose a bit of zoom zoom, the trade off is to go off light gravel a bit it may be a consideration.

The previous guy made a valid point, Top Aluminum vs Low grade Carbon. I’m frankly not sure if the technology has all caught up yet . Is it fair analogy to a decked out sports mod Toyota Corolla (synapse), or Toyota Base Camery (CAAD13)? Given that I would choose the Camery, better engine and higher tier.

thanks

A01082919

I was just looking for the biggest bang per buck. If top grade alum still better than cannondales economic offerings of Carbon bikes. Looking at a variety of factors of courses (assuming if all variables and factors were the same, so if the CAAD 13 has both Alu and carbon editions) and were just looking at materials.

based on that, if Alum prevails, the obvious choice will be CAAD, if Carbons worth it, the Synapse will win.

Lombard

They used to. Awhile back, Cannondale had what they called "hi-mod" carbon which supposedly weighed less. Being the cheap a$$ that I am, I decided it wasn't worth the extra $2,000 for the hi-mod version of the bike and went with the "regular mod" version of the 2014 Synapse Carbon, which feels plenty stiff - a whole lot stiffer than my 2007 Trek Pilot 5.0 which feels like a noodle in comparison. Granted that the tapered steerer tubes that are pretty much standard on today's road bikes help with the feeling of stability as well.

As has been pointed out before, I don't think you would go wrong with either one of these bikes you're considering. Nor do I think you will get anything better than the Optimo you already have.

A01082919

How is the carbon frames of these past few years compared to CAAD’s aluminum frame then?