ArgoMan

Hey all. I have a really nice older frame that is just a bit too large for me. I fit well into most 54cm frames and the one I have is a 56cm. I have shorter arms for my stature and am able to ride the bike fairly well, but it just has that "too big" feel. It has a 4-inch stem, about 20 degrees downward. I was thinking that if I just adjust the saddle forward and maybe install a shorter stem, that I can change the whole feel and otherwise make the bike fit better. I see that Zipp sells 70mm stems witha 6 degree angle. That's like slicing 1.25 inches off of the stem length. My concern is that this would be too short and may cause control issues. My research shows lots of "experts" recommending a stem no shorter than 90mm. Anyone have experience with stems shorter than 90mm, or any other comments or advice on the topic? Thank you!

datlas 

It’s gonna be a compromise but ok to try it. Heck, there was recently a discussion on 0 length stems!

Would avoid moving saddle too far forward as that may affect your position over the pedals.

ArgoMan

Thanks. I've read some prior threads on this issue and I'm basically coming to the conclusion that I just have to try different lengths. It's funny, but my "go to" bike is also a 56cm, but it has a very angled and long head tube (it's a hand-made 90's Italian race frame) and I have a 120mm stem on it, inverted upward about 6 degrees, and it's a very nice fit! I'm going to get a Zipp 70 or 80mm stem with a 6 degree rise and see how it goes.

Iride01 

Move the bars first and the saddle only if your butt tells you that it wants a different position over the BB. Though it'd be better to get a seat post with less setback if you need to move the saddle. Depending of course how close you are to the limits of the rails. No harm in trying it out though in the current seat post.

IMO you'll get use to any twitchy feeling that a shorter stem might give you for the first two or three rides. I went from a 100 mm stem to a 70 mm stem and got use to it fairly quick. Later when I went to narrower bars, the bike felt even more perfect handling through corners and darting around road hazards that appeared out of nowhere.

Chandne

I went from a 100mm stem to my current 80mm stem. I got used to it but I also use 40-50 stems on my Mtn bike. I use 70mm on the gravel bike. I have become so used to short stem that I prefer them now. Don't mess with the saddle.

mstateglfr 

A 70mm stem won't make you crash or create whatever vague handling concern you have.
Another option is to buy handlebars that do not have a lot of reach. Specialized makes a drop bar with 65mm of reach, which would cut off 1-2cm, depending on your current bars.

ArgoMan

Thanks! That's funny, because I came across the Specialized short reach handlebar and was going to ask something about that. I'm a little confused about what "reach" is re handlebars. From what I can tell, does it mean that the drop portions of the bar are just smaller, thus reducing the amount of "reach" it takes to ride the hoods? And thanks for pointing out the fact that I have 'vague concerns'. They actually are vague concerns, as I read how "experts" recommend nothing shorter than 90mm, but I never get an explanation as to why!

datlas 

For handlebars there is "reach" and "drop."



This should NOT be confused with "reach" for a bike frame which is a different quantity/measure.

ArgoMan

As to reach of a handlebar, that's what I suspected. I guess I have to ask, does anyone have any experience with short reach bars? What can I expect from them, handling wise? Thanks again!

datlas 

I have no experience, but hypothetically I think you should get the same effect from reducing reach via a bar OR a stem, or a combination of both. Your choice.

mstateglfr 

My kids have short reach drop bars on their road bikes- they are fine. They are just handlebars, nothing really wild or crazy about them.

Levers have lengthened in the last 6 years, so compact drop bars offset the longer lever hoods. Its all really just shifting distance from one component to another.
40 years ago, levers used to be compact and a lot of bars had reach. Also, stems were often long(30 years ago, especially). Frames are how longer in the front half, which allows stems to be shorter and shift lever hoods are longer, so more compact bars are good.
Its all just shifting.


But yeah- compact drop bars reduce the overall reach. One of my kid's has the Specialized compact bars I mentioned, and also a 70mm stem. Its because their bike has a long top tube. She rides it just fine and has never said anything about it feeling unsafe or whatever else.

SoSmellyAir

From what I have read about bike fitting and learned from tweaking my own fit:

[1] The saddle fore/aft adjustment is used to position the saddle relative to the bottom bracket to optimize your pedal stroke and your fore/aft weight balance, not so much to compensate for your reach to the handlebar.

[2] The stem is used to position the tops of the handlebar relative to the bike. Use the stem calculator (Stem Comparison Tool | yojimg.net) to evaluate your proposed switch from 100 mm stem at -20 degrees to 70 mm stem at 6 degrees. You would need the head tube angle of the frame. Assuming that the head tube angle is the default 73 degrees, your proposed new stem would move the tops 35 mm closer (horizontally or parallel to the ground) and 32 mm higher (vertically or perpendicular to the ground). That seems like a relatively large change for a bike that is just "a bit too large" for you.

[3] If you can comfortably reach the tops of your handlebar but not the tip of the hoods, you can install a handlebar with less reach, or first try rotating your existing handlebar (relative to the stem) to bring the ends closer to the saddle and installing the STI levers closer to the tops, which decreases the effective reach.

Iride01 

Maybe I'm wrong but most short reach bars tend to also be shallow drop bars.

I wouldn't go back to the older style drop bars with a huge amount of drop. I like that the short reach/shallow drops offer me a position on the hoods that is more aero than what bars with a large amount of drop would do. If I set my old style bars to give me the same drop on the hoods, then I'd rarely ever go to the drops. Which is basically what happened on all my old bikes with a large amount of drop. Now I find I use the drops more than I use to on those older bikes.

Short reach bars can give you more options for stem length too. But depending on the bike and what you have now and where you want to go with things you have to figure out what your goal is for getting the position you want.

aliasfox

I just built a gravel bike into a flat bar around-town bike, using as many parts bin components as I could find, including an 80mm stem pulled off my wife’s REI Co-op CTY bike (funnily enough, she’s more comfortable on a 70mm stem with more rise).

The shorter stem put me in a very upright position on the gravel frame (good and comfy), but also gave me slightly quicker handling than I anticipated. Not a big deal. What was a bigger deal was that my weight ended up being very far back, leaving the front wheel feeling unweighted. I ended up switching it out for a 100mm stem, which slowed the steering down just a tad, but also allowed my weight to be more centered between the wheels.

I imagine a short stem on an older frame (possibly designed for a longer trail fork?) might do the same thing from a weight distribution perspective. Doubt it would be spooky or anything, but might just take some getting used to.