eduskator

I've used 3 brands of TL tires so far and all of them leaked a little amount of sealant through the sidewall upon initial setup. You pump the tire until it pops or seat properly and then spin it so the sealant gets everywhere and the whole thing becomes air-tight. It's one of the reason why many manufacturers (Schwalbe, for instance) says to go for a 20km+ ride immediately after installing the tire.

Zaskar

I struggled for a long (!) time to get Schwalbe Pro Ones to hold air. I added Stans, retaped, added Stans (again)... still lost 20 psi on an hour ride. To ensure the sealant was distributed throughout the tires, I did the following:
1. Shake, bounce, spin - a lot
2. Lay wheel in a bucket on a level surface - lets wheel rest totally level - rest for 10 min.
3. Repeat #1 and #2 on other side
4. Repeat #1
5. Go for short ride.

No progress.

I put a wheel in a clear bin full of water. It's pretty clear what was happening...



There are a lot of things working against us to get tires to hold air without tubes - spoke holes, rim-bead interface, valve.... You'd think the sidewalls of the tires wouldn't be on the list. Also, you'd think Stans would be able to handle that - sealing the sidewall. I switched to Orange Seal and they're holding air - like, losing 2 psi overnight. I don't have a lab. I only did this with four wheels/tires, so I can't say for sure it's because of the Orange Seal... but it's because of the Orange Seal.

fooferdoggie 

and clogged.

chaadster

I take full and abundant exception to those comments!

If you want to know about sidewall leaking, try running a Rene Herse Bon Jon Pass with the Extralight casing. Those weep through the sidewalls like crazy at the pressures I needed to run, and while they made for lousy tubeless tires for me, they are excellent performers, and probably my favorite tires…I just run them with light TPU tubes.

With regards to Michelins, I’ve run both the older Power Road and the newer Power Cup in 25mm size, and had neither problems with sidewall weeping nor bead stretch. I did not care for the ride quality of the Power Road, but the Power Cup are excellent for my needs as a fast road tire, with plenty of grip, good ride quality, great efficiency/speed, and surprising durability. I’ll probably re-up on Power Cups come late spring when it’s time to put some freshies on.

chaadster

Yeah, that’s what I was saying about supple tires: there’s not a lot of rubber on the sidewalls, and flexing those sidewalls pulls at the bond between the casing fibers and the rubber, and creates little pathways for air loss. You can see in your pic— which is great, BTW! Well done!— the bubbles aligning along the fiber orentation, revealing the nature of the leakage mechanism.

I suppose that’s also the reason that Schwalbe say to run them immediately after adding sealant to ensure sealing, to embed the sealant in those micro cracks and perhaps prevent them from propagating. Obviously if there’s a lot of delamination it’s going to be a lot harder to get sealant into those spaces and require a lot more of it to get effective sealing.

It sounds like you did everything right, though…except use the required Doc Blue sealant! I’m teasing, as I would take that only as a recommendation despite Schwalbe saying “must” use Doc Blue, and in fact I never did use Doc Blue with any of the many Pro Ones I’ve used over the years, going back to the original One, which, as an aside, was fully lined and airtight. I even ran One without any sealant for awhile, just because I could.

Eric F 

This ^^^ might be the issue. See Zaskar's post above.

eduskator

That's one of the reason why I don't like thin sealant such as Stan's (regular) or Giant (which seems to be the same).

I've always used 2oz of Muc-Off sealant in each of my tires; it's thick and filled with particles to help clog holes. I ride Pro One tires too since 5 years. I've had 1 deflation problem at some point and it was caused by the tire not being seated properly. Deflated it, reinflated it, sealant leaked a little, everything sealed up properly and I was OK for the remainder of the season.

For those hookless rim owners, it's OK to go a little above the maximum recommended pressure when seating a tire if it does not seat properly. It won't damage it.

ArgoMan

Thanks for all the great info guys! So, I actually bought some Orange Seal last month when I thought that I'd seat the tires myself. But I also bought a Stan's Tubeless Kit, figuring that Stan's should have the whole "No Tubes" thing nailed down by now. I gave the Stan's sealant to my LBS guys when they mounted the tires. That's what they used. 2 oz. per tire. So, should I remount using the Orange Seal? Or can I just add some Orange Seal to the tire as is?

Eric F 

If I was doing it, I would remove one bead, dump out the Stan's, wipe out the inside of the tire, and re-install the tire with Orange. I have heard that some sealants don't play well together. Even if they do, my choice would be to not have the good stuff diluted by the not-good stuff.

choddo

I’ve always used Stans and not had too many issues but going to try this Orange stuff.

DaveSSS 

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The fact that your experience is different doesn't negate mine. I had the earliest models that leaked initially and later in their life. I use hookless rims where bead stretch is more obvious. Eventually, if the air is let out to add sealant, the tire immediately unseats and can't be reseated, except with a high volume shot of air. You can't get a valve core back in without the tire unseating. Take the tire off and you'll find a large amount of dried sealant all around the bead that was added as the tire leaked over time. A Pirelli P-Zero TLR won't do this. The bead stays tight, regardless of age.

tomato coupe

No, his experience does not negate your experience. But, his experience can refute your conclusion that is based on your experience.

DaveSSS 

Rim width and hooked or hookless was not mentioned, so you can't really draw a conclusion. I used early model 28mm Michelin tubeless with 19mm IW hooked fulcrum wheels with no problem other than leaking sealant from the sidewalls. The same Michelin tires mounted on 25mm IW hookless rims were so loose that they fell off the ledge with no help, after less than year of use. The Michelin tubeless tires I had are also not officially approved for hookless rims. The latest models are now rated for hooked or hookless.

https://www.michelinman.com/bicycle/tires/michelin-power-cup-tlr-competition-line#sizes

A Pirelli requires a lot of persuasion to remove, even after being mounted for two years on my 25mm IW hookless rims. They are approved for hooked or hookless rims.

Leisesturm

Yah. I'm the crazy one ...