Calsun

What is overlooked is at what distance a motorist needs to see that you are in the roadway and to respond and avoid hitting you. "Suppose a driver is traveling at 60 mph (88 feet per second) and suddenly sees a pedestrian. "Normal" perception-reaction time1 for a lane incursion by a pedestrian (Green, 2000) is about 1.5 seconds. During this time, the car will have moved forward 132 feet (1.5 x 88). Cars don’t stop instantaneously, however, so the vehicle continues forward after brake depression until friction halts all motion. This would require another 150 feet and take about 3.4 seconds. As a result, the driver must see the pedestrian 280 feet and 4.9 seconds in advance."

https://www.visualexpert.com/Resources/pedestrian.html

There are also studies on what color is best during the day (dayglo yellow-green) and which is best at night when different cones are involved and there is no sunlight to illuminate the individual.

I would not trust any device with my life. There are far too many drivers who are are distracted, drunk, drowsy and/or drugged (AKA the “D” drivers) and frequently don’t react properly to unusual situations on the highway.

Leisesturm

Overcomplicated, yet quite oversimple in this application. There isn't anywhere where a driver may legally travel 60mph and yet have pedestrians crossing in front of them. Do drivers speed? Of course. Do enough of them exceed the usual 25mph/30mph/35mph restrictions common in urban and suburban pedestrian/cyclist routing to make your assertions work? I don't think so. This is a cycling forum. A cyclist moving crosswise OR with traffic, does not need the driver to come to a complete stop in a collision scenario. Even in your overly hyperbolic 60mph in a 25mph panic stop the cyclist only needs for the driver to scrub off 50% of their delta vee. A pedestrian probably wouldn't make it to safety but the average cyclist should. In the worst case scenario and there is car on cyclist contact, the outcome is considerably improved if the car is only traveling at 19mph. Far from zero, but yet the cyclist/pedestrian can reasonably be expected to survive a direct hit. This is why, in Europe, the laws don't focus so much on closing/passing distance, but they do insist on safe closing/passing speeds.

njkayaker

This is a silly example.


This is silly too.

These sorts of drivers aren’t going to see your shirt or your T-light either.

SpedFast

I would not trust any device with my life. There are far too many drivers who are are distracted, drunk, drowsy and/or drugged (AKA the “D” drivers) and frequently don’t react properly to unusual situations on the highway.[/QUOTE]


They don't react to life situations in general much better either...

bharrisonb

I'm a red led "blinka"(as we say in Massachusetts). Between my front / rear LEDs (both blinking in daylight) and my high viz jacket or vest, I know I'm more visible to vehicles ...

Now, whether certain vehicle operators even care that they can see me is another story. I learned defensive riding from a Motorcycle Safety Course which I apply to bicycling. I ride assuming no one can see more (or cares to see me), and I adjust speed and trajectory based on on road and traffic conditions.

Troul 

I can relate.

PeteHski

The Varia can be seen literally a mile away. It is as bright AF! I’ve experienced them many times as a motorist too. They are very effective as are most modern quality LEDs.

Personal anecdote: Last year I was on a century Fondo ride and a fellow cyclist came up behind me and commented how he had been trying to chase me down for the previous two hours using my Varia as a “beacon”.

Garfield Cat

This thread is so long. I just wanted to add but maybe something was already mentioned.

But here goes.

I use two cygolites. Both are on the seat post. The 350 lumens is on a fixed mount. The other is the 150 lumens and mounted with an elastic band.

The one on the elastic band is mounted slightly "off center". This puts the beam slightly to my left, instead of dead center. With the "off center" I am targeting the cars from the far left lanes.

I figure I'm covering the two or three car lanes to my left, using a wider beam throw.

Both are blinking. I am reluctant to use the term "flashing"

diphthong

you've already done just that by not "conforming" and being in a motor vehicle. may as well light up the sky and the roadways.
who wants to hit an xmas tree/holiday celebration? so many drivers are pissed off anyhows.

njkayaker

There are many ways of being a “Christmas tree” without using blue lights.

It's possible that over doing lights will just be confusing and make you less safe.

It’s likely that 99.99% of drivers aren’t “pissed off” (otherwise, you’ll likely already be dead).

You aren’t going to be more safe by “pissing off” more drivers.

diphthong

drivers that are not confused.

drivers that are not pissed off.

drivers that are confused.

drivers that are pissed off.

drivers that are confused and pissed off.

drivers that are confused and not pissed off.

drivers that are not confused but pissed off.

drivers that are not confused and not pissed off.

let's add drivers that are blitzed and/or distracted into the overall equation.


i'd rather wake and shake them vs letting them continue on their merry way largely undisturbed.

am i the jerk? possibly/probably but car culture (and the reverse) leads/lead us there. safety first.

what works for you and yours in your environs is your biz.

Calsun

Making assumptions that approaching motorists will see you on your bike and respond properly is foolish. The great majority of cyclists injured or killed by motorists were operating properly and assumed that approaching motorists would not hit them. I try to avoid making assumptions when my being wrong could prove to be fatal.

The majority of motorists I see on the highway are using their cell phone while driving and holding it in one hand. Their obsession with text messages overrides their responsibility to watch the road or to keep both hands on the steering wheel. But if they do kill a bicyclist they get to tell the police their side of the story and so the bicyclist will be the one at fault in the police report.

A driving class taught by a California Highway Patrol officer made me aware of the concept of "covering the brake pedal" with one foot at all time in traffic so as to minimize the elapsed time in starting to apply the brakes. How many people do you know who do this ever? How many people do you know, including yourself, who make a point of slowing down when approaching a bicyclist or when sight distance is limited?

I have decided that most people when they get behind the wheel of a car have their lizard brain take over. They are in a rush without any thought as to the need to arrive at a certain minute or how much time they will save by driving faster than the posted speed limit or conditions permit. Add in a cell phone and texting and the operator's brain is not able to function properly. All auto accident rates have increased dramatically with the advent of the cell phone with drivers not paying attention to the road.

SpedFast

The legalization of pot has added to the problem. In the summer almost every car that goes by me in this touristy area is reeking of ganga.

Maelochs

If they don't see me or think I am a roadside reflector on a mailbox or something, it doesn't matter if they can estimate closing speed ... they won't register me as important anyway, and by the time they realize I am a bike in the road and not a roadside reflector, they are committed to a path which impacts me.

It is harder, not impossible to gauge closing rater with a blinking light, but the light Does appear to be brighter and larger as one approaches. It is not impossible ... it is not even that difficult (I mean, most of drive as well as ride, so we have done this ourselves and know what we find works best to help us identify cyclists as we drive.)

Studies have been done, and it seems blinking lights (as I recall) attract the brain because the blinking itself translates as motion, and our brains care less about stationary objects, at some animal level .... Cops, ambulances, fire trucks, wide-0load two trucks all use blinkers for some reason ...

One thing I recall from some study was that if you really want to be identified by drivers as a bike, wear a pedal or ankle light ... the pattern of motion immediately screams "Bicycle" to drivers, apparently.

But seriously .... if you are Really worried, run one flashing and one solid tail light.

Rick

The problems associated with flashing lights have to do with night time operation. Even emergency vehicle flashing lights don't cause these problems in daytime operation. Flashing lights on bicycles are illegal in many states, day or night. I don't care about the daylight part. I use flashing lights for daylight only. I prefer to be seen sooner rather than later. I still ride like I always have and watch for problems especially when approaching intersections loaded up with other road users. I yell hello and see motorists heads move so I know they are seeing me. I am going to purchase a yellow/amber light for the front. I have never been pulled over or approached by the police about my flashing light. My nighttime lights don't flash. With few exceptions my close calls and collisions involving automobiles have been during daylight. I have spent many hours riding to work in the past without incident. I have one of the brightest most expensive lights available and dinotte has recently made a new model even brighter.

Eyes Roll

Can you provide me with a list of states or name a few states where a flashing rear light on a bicycle is expressly prohibited by the law?

Agree that many states require a steady front headlight, which is actually good for the bike rider to properly see the bike path in the dark.

jadmt

too true. nothing like being at a redlight and you get the big blow of weed smoke blown out the window at you...i actually would prefer a diesel rolling coal at me..

Rick

​​​​​​​ It is done under the law indirectly. Most states say that only emergency and utility vehicles have the right to use flashing lights.

njkayaker

1. You need to show what you are talking about.
2. It wouldn't surprise me that no cyclist ever got a ticket for using a rear red flashing light.

=================

NJ only restricts their use on motor vehicles.

https://law.justia.com/codes/new-jer...0vehicles%20of

It's slightly more complicated in California. Section 25250 prohibits flashing lights on vehicles. But "vehicle" doesn't include bicycles (meaning Section 25250 doesn't apply to bicyclists).

https://thebigreason.com/blog/2014/0...in-california/

Washington State allows them.

https://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.37.280

Florida works like California

https://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/...0316.2397.html

SpedFast

It looks to me like California classifies 'Ebikes' as a 'vehicle' because it's not solely human powered.

njkayaker

Yes, that seems to be the case (at the moment).

Ebikes are weird. I expect that ebikes are generally going to be treated as equivalent to bicycles. But it might take some time for the laws to catch up.

https://www.calbike.org/wp-content/u...Agencies-1.pdf

Eyes Roll

In all states in the U.S., if your bike has:

(1) White Front headlight - Steady.
(2) Red Rear taillight - Steady or Blinking (in many states even a red rear reflector in the place of steady or blinking red light).

You are covered.

PeteHski

Yeah I can’t say I’ve ever had trouble judging the distance of a bike with a blinking rear light. But I do tend to notice them earlier. Blinking lights always grab my attention on the road, for example turn indicators and hazard lights. I can’t imagine non-blinking turn indicators would be very effective!

tcs

Internationally, there's the International Convention on Road Traffic, Vienna, Austria November 8, 1968, which most of the world's nations are signatories to. This applies when you ride your bike across international borders.

Chapter V

CONDITIONS FOR THE ADMISSION OF CYCLES AND MOPEDS TO INTERNATIONAL TRAFFIC

ARTICLE 44

Cycles without an engine in international traffic shall:
(a) Have an efficient brake;
(b) Be equipped with a bell capable of being heard at a sufficient distance, and carry no other audible warning device;
(c) Be equipped with a red reflecting device at the rear and with devices such that the cycle can show a white or selective-yellow light to the front and a red light to the rear.

Note the subtle difference: both a red light and a red 'reflecting device' are required, and the lighting requirement applies even if it's not 'after dark'.

There are bicycle taillamps that additionally have built-in reflectors that meet various international reflector standards: CatEye offers a couple, Planet Bike's Grateful Red models, some of the B&Ms.

As a practical matter, after reading a thousand or more cycletour travelogs, I've never come across a case where anybody got in trouble for this. Hmm. I guess if you rode your bike on tour through Germany, you wouldn't have to have StVZO-compliant lights.


https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/buy...o-bike-lights/

Daniel4

I've been wondering if, instead of rear lights or reflectors, use a mirror. Right here in Bike Forums, there are many discussions about how blinking or not, some drivers get confused. But a mirror would reflect the driver's headlights right back at him making it look as if there's a car headed his way and thereby making the driver take defensive and avoidance action.

Other ideas I've had was to hang a construction worker's hard hat at the back. That would give the impression that I would be one of their own bros if I pickup truck approached me.