Jacob_R_59 

This is what I am looking for!

Hello, I'm looking to buy or (preferably) trade for a Simplex Criterium rear derailleur with a hanger. I posted earlier today about my Gitane TDF frame with lower tier Simplex droputs without a derailleur hanger; this RD is for that bike. Does anybody have one they'd part with? IT MUST HAVE THE RED PLASTIC SPRING HOLE COVERS.

Thank you for looking!

Jacob_R_59

oneclick 

a) you can swap the hanger portion of any old simplex plastic rear mech with another - if you swap all the top metal arts (hanger/bolt/spring/etc); and they are not hard to find.
b) the little caps inserted in the tops of ball-point pens made by that french firm fit right in the bolt hex sockets; they come in a very close red, and careful surgery with a razor after insertion can get you the same flush fit with a centre hole.

Jacob_R_59 

I was looking at the 1971 Simplex catalogue, and had pretty much come to the same conclusion. I will swap the upper parts from the Prestige RD my bike came with.

kroozer 

I have an NOS example, in its original box with instructions, if you're interested. No claw though.

jdawginsc 

Not sure what this little guy is...

rustystrings61 

Not period correct for the Gitane, but awesome nonetheless. I ADORE metal-bodied Simplex rear derailleurs, and the brutal truth is they shift waaaaay better than any Campagnolo Nuovo Record ever made. There. I have stated my heresy again.

jdawginsc 

Couldn't find it on velobase but figured it was early to mid 80s. Might use it on my waffle drop Gitane later on. Or something else.

Or not anything I guess. Unless the claw can be removed.

nlerner

Sure looks like an SX410: https://www.ebay.com/itm/19573401503...evt=1&mkcid=28

Usually the model number is stamped somewhere on the main body.

jdawginsc 

Thats what I thought it was but no number stamped and yellow label...

machinist42

<Buzzer Goes Buzz .aud>

Ooooo, so sorry.

The correct question is:

"What is a third edition SLJ 5000 or second edition SLJ 5001, produced from 1978-1979."



Picked up the first edition of this series, the SLJ AR 615 a while ago (for very few francs Because seller didn't know what it was), to outfit the 1971 Orange Tdf with hangerless Simplex dropouts (and Huret cable guides) in the Queue. The 615 was introduced in 1972 so it's about as close as one can get to Period Correct and use a "Good " Simplex all metal RD?



Sadly, no hanger so jdawginsc 's example with a hanger could be very helpful!
Would appreciate photos of the back side of the hanger, and maybe a tracing on a sheet of ruled graph paper or a scan or something so a duplicate can be fabricated?
(Until you posted this was considering seeking out another French Frame with Simplex dropouts with a Simplex hanger. Have a pair of French threaded pedals with no home, so...)

Why not swap in the hanger from a Prestige? Well, according to Jon at Red Clover:

"...although Simplex mounting claws are bolted to the dropout with the same generic hardware used for Campagnolo claws, the claws themselves are somewhat model-specific. In other words, there's no universal Simplex claw that will accept any Simplex derailleur. You need to have the correct claw (and the correct derailleur-to-claw mounting bolt) for the particular derailleur you plan to use.

To make matters worse, there seems to be no product marking or numbering system that makes it possible to tell which hanger goes with which derailleur. And some people claim that French bikes are difficult to work on!"

Will an SLJ 5000 or 5001 Hanger work for an earlier model of the same derailleur? Who knows? It might provide a template for machining something which could work, and that's something, so thank you Dave for posting your SLJ 5000 or 5001!

(Photo credits from, and further reading at The Retrogrouch.)

jdawginsc 

Apparently this is a reasonably valuable rare bird. Do you need a tracing of the claw?

machinist42

Indeed, and yes please, with a tracing of the mounting bolt as well if you will be so kind? Apparently Simplex may have used a different bolt to attach to claws? And this may be entirely fruitless as parts changed for your model. Did the claw and bolt? Who knows?

"As a direct consequence of the aforementioned part numbering re-alignment, it logically followed that contemporary Simplex catalogs identify discrete individual piece part numbers for those bits comprising the original SLJ AR 615 versus the first edition SLJ 5000 rear derailleurs and that said numbers are to some extent unique. However, those very same respective parts remained essentially unaltered from one model to the next, and in fact are almost completely interchangeable with one another -- at least until the second edition SLJ 5000 or if you prefer SLJ 5001 of model year 1978 (. . . in other words, Simplex may have changed the part numbers in name, but not the physical parts themselves)." From The Retrogrouch site previously cited.

<sigh emoji>

May be easier to find a 60 cm. 1972-1975 Carre LeJeune or something to hang it on?

And you now have to find a 1978 or 1979 French Frame with Simplex dropouts without a hanger for your SLJ 5000 or 5001?

Hah!

Here's a question. Is the bolt attaching the pulley cage centered or off centered on your example? Off center would make it the Touring model, though not the Grand Touring! Looks off centered in your photo.

jdawginsc 

machinist42

Ooooo, cool, you have the Touring Model.

Don't worry over the tracings, there's no way that hanger can work as a template. Your derailleur has a bolt coming out of it , while the AR 615 has a bolt going into it.

<picture(s) to be added here once the light's right>

jdawginsc 

Didn’t know what I had! Haha. My ability to speak “Simplexese” is quite limited.

Might have to keep it and see what I might do with it. Can the hanger be removed without killing the derailleur. I know Simplex stuff was often persnickety.

machinist42

Well sure.
Simply undo that nut on the back and then the hanger will come off.
But then what are you going to do with it? Can't mount it to any other derailleur hanger with that skinny bolt and thin nut.

Real utility may be on a late '70s French Sports Tourer without an integrated hanger?

kroozer 

The various LJ's and SX's look very similar from the front and sides, but are constructed differently. The LJ's have all-alloy arms, while the SX's have Delrin (plastic) arms reinforced with metal and covered with a thin layer of aluminum. To tell which is which you need to get a look at the back (inner) side. In the above photo of the derailleur seen from the back, you can see that the arms are black which is Delrin. The LJ is probably better, but I have used an SX410-GT (long cage) for commuting and touring for several years and it's been fine.
Did they really save that much money and/or weight using plastic? Whatever weight saving they may have realized were usually offset with steel cages etc.

machinist42

You might be right and Dave's example may not be an SLJ. The back plate appears to be black Plastic. The "arms" though do look to be solid metal. Which metal may be determined with the judicious application of a magnet. Haven't seen the back of a third generation SLJ 5000 or second generation SLJ 5001.

Regardless, the photos of the backside of jdawginsc 's RD does question a positive ID as an SLJ.

repechage

the trick beginning with the plastic versions with the red plastic plugs in the Allen key pivot bolt bores is to remove the plug and NOT turn the bolt, just use an Allen wrench to hold it in position, remove the nut that is at the back, exterior has a shoulder, interior the threads.

Jacob_R_59 

Thanks so much for all of the data on Simplex derailleur hangers, and other esoterica! Of course the hangers were specific to the particular model of derailleur, and are NOT interchangeable. Of course. Anything else wouldn’t be…FRENCH.🤷🏿‍♂️

I’m really grateful for the data; it feels like I should cut-and-paste it into a Word file and try to make sense of it all.🏆

Reminds me of the immortal lines from the first Jurassic Park, “No wonder you went extinct!”

😵😱🤣

jdawginsc 

Sorry to hijack the thread, but it seemed to fit.

sbarner 

I always thought that, while the plastic plugs looked cool, they were a pain to remove when accessing the hex sockets. Years later, when unsuccessfully looking for information on how to adjust the springs in these, I learned that this was the entire point. Simplex didn't want people mucking around with this adjustment. I've seen plenty of Simplex derailleurs damaged by inexperienced mechanics who thought they mounted the same way that Campy and most Japanese derailleurs did and reefed on the pivot bolts instead of removing the nut from the back side. When the derailleurs were current, the grease they used would usually outlast the mechanism. Simplex proved that the concept of using lightweight materials that would not withstand any significant abuse on products mass marketed to consumers was a poor business strategy. 50 years on, I would think the lube has dried up, so I would guess that the best approach to figuring out an accurate adjustment might involve paying attention to how many degrees the bolt makes to get to the point where the tension is relaxed and then returning it to that position on re-assembly.

Jacob_R_59 

Good point on those red plastic covers: Simplex put them there for a reason.

Well thought out, and well spoken.

Thank you!

Jacob_R_59

dphi 

With the (lone?) exception of the SX-630

Jacob_R_59 

Is there no escaping Delrin?! Thank you for pointing this out-I think.

Jacob_R_59