1950 Hetchins build thread
10-08-23, 06:08 PM
#1
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1950 Hetchins build thread
I’ve been wanting to pick up a new project that was both older and had some new challenges. All of my vintage bikes are from the late 60’s to 1981, so I was thinking 50’s or 60’s. I missed out on 2 bikes I wanted in the last 10 days. Then…. This 1950 Hetchins frame came up on my local Craigslist.
The chrome varies from great to pretty bad. The paint is mostly nonexistent. So I’ll need to decide how to refinish (or a serious amount of patina). The first big challenge will be to get a Chater Lea headclip.
The chrome varies from great to pretty bad. The paint is mostly nonexistent. So I’ll need to decide how to refinish (or a serious amount of patina). The first big challenge will be to get a Chater Lea headclip.
Last edited by SwimmerMike; 10-08-23 at 09:33 PM. Reason: Typo in title
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10-08-23, 07:37 PM
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I just put new nickel and paint on a frame and kind of regret it. Food for thought. Your patina would clean up, imo.
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10-08-23, 08:29 PM
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if you have not done so already would think first order of business would be to check steerer diameter
there is a good possibility it may be the Chater-Lea 31/32" size
dropouts appear to be AGRATI forged (3D on outer face and flat in inner)
fork ends appear stamped
to find period correct high quality fittings individually could deflate wallet
would think it likely to have expressed an 8V drive train
-----
if you have not done so already would think first order of business would be to check steerer diameter
there is a good possibility it may be the Chater-Lea 31/32" size
dropouts appear to be AGRATI forged (3D on outer face and flat in inner)
fork ends appear stamped
to find period correct high quality fittings individually could deflate wallet
would think it likely to have expressed an 8V drive train
-----
10-08-23, 08:56 PM
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Great looking frame! Absolutely beautiful! You haven’t given us half enough photos. 3 measly pics? Come on now!
10-08-23, 09:10 PM
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Might do with a retype of the thread name, Hetchins, not Hutchins
10-08-23, 09:52 PM
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10-08-23, 10:04 PM
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if you have not done so already would think first order of business would be to check steerer diameter
there is a good possibility it may be the Chater-Lea 31/32" size
dropouts appear to be AGRATI forged (3D on outer face and flat in inner)
fork ends appear stamped
to find period correct high quality fittings individually could deflate wallet
would think it likely to have expressed an 8V drive train
-----
if you have not done so already would think first order of business would be to check steerer diameter
there is a good possibility it may be the Chater-Lea 31/32" size
dropouts appear to be AGRATI forged (3D on outer face and flat in inner)
fork ends appear stamped
to find period correct high quality fittings individually could deflate wallet
would think it likely to have expressed an 8V drive train
-----
I was warned by the seller to be careful on the steerer size for the headset. He was sure it is a 1” steerer. I also measured it (a couple of times) at 1” I’ll check a few more times since they are rare and not cheap. . From what I read the 31/32 is more common.
yeah, this may not be cheap to build out. A lot of it will depend on the choices ranging from patina to parts.
The rear is around 111mm so not a 5 speed. I need to do some researching and decision making on if I want to spread the drop outs to 120ish.
10-08-23, 10:10 PM
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Im pretty sure I’ll build it out with a 1970’s campy based build from my parts bin and no cosmetic changes (except polishing the chrome) to help figure out what I want to do.
10-08-23, 10:13 PM
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10-08-23, 10:21 PM
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111 is quite close to the convention for single speed of 110
a width of 114 for example could indicate either a planetary drive train or spacing for a derailleur 3V or 4V one
we of course do not know for sure the ex-works spacing
perfectly reasonable to consider the possibility that a previous owner may have run it as a planetary
---
suggestion -
if you have not already done so you may wish to consider joining the VCC
membership gives access to all of their materials and permits you to communicate directly with the "marque enthusiast" for this manufacturer
-----
Last edited by juvela; 10-08-23 at 10:28 PM. Reason: addition
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10-08-23, 11:01 PM
#11
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I think your frameset model is the Super Special, which is nearly identical to the later Nulli Secundus (Latin for 'Second to None').
See here: Hetchins SuperSpecial/Nulli Secundus
If you scroll down to the small (19" - 20") black fixed gear Hetchins (the 1950 Super Special), the lug pattern and fork crown look identical to your frameset.
Andrew G.
See here: Hetchins SuperSpecial/Nulli Secundus
If you scroll down to the small (19" - 20") black fixed gear Hetchins (the 1950 Super Special), the lug pattern and fork crown look identical to your frameset.
Andrew G.
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10-08-23, 11:06 PM
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Pretty clean lugwork with nice detailing. Better appearing than what I saw in the 1970’s
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10-08-23, 11:57 PM
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Agree, looks to be a Super Special, which has the integrated HS versus the later Nulli Secundus. I had a 1952 Nulli, perhaps my favorite Latin lug pattern. The Hetchins website link is a great source of info, inquires there may provide more detail on the HS specifications and the frame itself as there is a registry. Not sure if the website is maintained routinely still.
Nice project. Perhaps it was a Road/Path or TT frame designed for fixed or single speed with that dropout spread. In this era, frames were custom so who knows the whims of the original customer.
Nice project. Perhaps it was a Road/Path or TT frame designed for fixed or single speed with that dropout spread. In this era, frames were custom so who knows the whims of the original customer.
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10-09-23, 12:09 AM
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SwimmerMike: I know zero about this era of Hetchins and less than zero about Charter Lea beyond the existence of the name. But I can suggest that you check out Hilary Stone's website. He ain't cheap, but he knows his stuff and has all sorts of stuff that never found its way across the pond. I've bought one or two things from him over the years and he is quite reputable. If nothing else, the website is a fun way to lose yourself for several hours.
Nice frame. It is lucky to have found you. I will expect to see it on some future First Saturday ride.
Nice frame. It is lucky to have found you. I will expect to see it on some future First Saturday ride.
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10-09-23, 05:14 AM
#15
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This is good advice. I bought the wrong size headclip a few years ago, because I did not know they came in more than one size.
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10-09-23, 05:51 AM
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Nice catch, and following! I also have a 1950 Hetchins, same lugs as yours but with vibrant stays ( previously posted). The seller from whom I acquired the frame identified it as a Nulli Secundus, not the Super Special, but hetchins.org indicates 1950 was a transition year and it could be either. Apparently there were a few NS frames that year with integrated headsets, which would otherwise be the defining distinction. It seems to come down to how it was entered in the bill of sale that year - which I don't have so I'm fine with the seller's ID. Either way it's a Hetchins.
I continually pick up unexpected info on the forums, mine came with the CL head clip intact so I was unaware of the size differences.
I continually pick up unexpected info on the forums, mine came with the CL head clip intact so I was unaware of the size differences.
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Last edited by PilotFishBob; 10-09-23 at 05:53 AM. Reason: Clarification
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10-09-23, 10:08 AM
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-----
111 is quite close to the convention for single speed of 110
a width of 114 for example could indicate either a planetary drive train or spacing for a derailleur 3V or 4V one
we of course do not know for sure the ex-works spacing
perfectly reasonable to consider the possibility that a previous owner may have run it as a planetary
---
suggestion -
if you have not already done so you may wish to consider joining the VCC
membership gives access to all of their materials and permits you to communicate directly with the "marque enthusiast" for this manufacturer
-----
111 is quite close to the convention for single speed of 110
a width of 114 for example could indicate either a planetary drive train or spacing for a derailleur 3V or 4V one
we of course do not know for sure the ex-works spacing
perfectly reasonable to consider the possibility that a previous owner may have run it as a planetary
---
suggestion -
if you have not already done so you may wish to consider joining the VCC
membership gives access to all of their materials and permits you to communicate directly with the "marque enthusiast" for this manufacturer
-----
10-09-23, 10:12 AM
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I think your frameset model is the Super Special, which is nearly identical to the later Nulli Secundus (Latin for 'Second to None').
See here: Hetchins SuperSpecial/Nulli Secundus
If you scroll down to the small (19" - 20") black fixed gear Hetchins (the 1950 Super Special), the lug pattern and fork crown look identical to your frameset.
Andrew G.
See here: Hetchins SuperSpecial/Nulli Secundus
If you scroll down to the small (19" - 20") black fixed gear Hetchins (the 1950 Super Special), the lug pattern and fork crown look identical to your frameset.
Andrew G.
10-09-23, 12:26 PM
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+1 on contacting Hilary Stone. Also, if you are looking for something new to work on, build up the bike with period parts. It will take you longer to track down the parts, and they will be a bit more expensive than 70's parts, but you'll learn a lot and you'll end up with a more distinctive bike.
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10-09-23, 01:28 PM
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+1 on contacting Hilary Stone. Also, if you are looking for something new to work on, build up the bike with period parts. It will take you longer to track down the parts, and they will be a bit more expensive than 70's parts, but you'll learn a lot and you'll end up with a more distinctive bike.
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10-09-23, 03:14 PM
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@iab which build do you regret the new chrome and paint? All the builds I’ve seen you do were amazing!
Im pretty sure I’ll build it out with a 1970’s campy based build from my parts bin and no cosmetic changes (except polishing the chrome) to help figure out what I want to do.
Im pretty sure I’ll build it out with a 1970’s campy based build from my parts bin and no cosmetic changes (except polishing the chrome) to help figure out what I want to do.
As for me, it is the Paglianti. Don't get me wrong, the nickel turned out great. But in hindsight, the original jank wasn't bad either and I got caught up with a guy telling me about his nickel guy. I haven't taken or posted any "after" pictures.
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10-15-23, 09:49 AM
#22
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I cold set the frame to 120 and the forks to 100 and got everything aligned.
the $400+ Chater-Lea headclip on the Bay sold before I could justify the money. I test fit some “no record” 27” wheels (the closest I have to period correct).
i also contacted the Hetchins Registry. The guy is out this weekend but seemed nice and will contact me this week. I’m hoping to get information on the original specs this week
The 27” looked good. Depending on brakes I could try 700c also.
I needed to spread the rear to 164mm to get it set at 120.
Using the Park alignment gauge that I got when Cupertino Bikes closed down
The alignment showed me I was off 2mm. So I needed to bend one side in and the other out.
the $400+ Chater-Lea headclip on the Bay sold before I could justify the money. I test fit some “no record” 27” wheels (the closest I have to period correct).
i also contacted the Hetchins Registry. The guy is out this weekend but seemed nice and will contact me this week. I’m hoping to get information on the original specs this week
The 27” looked good. Depending on brakes I could try 700c also.
I needed to spread the rear to 164mm to get it set at 120.
Using the Park alignment gauge that I got when Cupertino Bikes closed down
The alignment showed me I was off 2mm. So I needed to bend one side in and the other out.
10-15-23, 10:26 AM
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great to read you are moving right along with it
---
cold setting note -
t'is best to commence with the shell
face both sides and employ faces to check seat tube and down tube alignment
when you are satisfied these are good then you can go on to rear triangle
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great to read you are moving right along with it
---
cold setting note -
t'is best to commence with the shell
face both sides and employ faces to check seat tube and down tube alignment
when you are satisfied these are good then you can go on to rear triangle
-----
Last edited by juvela; 10-15-23 at 10:27 AM. Reason: spellin'
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10-23-23, 09:14 PM
#24
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Parts are starting to come in. Got some Campy Gran Sport parts form @Manny66 and just closed on a frame with a 1” (vs 31/32” headset) off of eBay in the UK.
Unfortunately the frame is my size and in great shape. So I may have another problem…..
Unfortunately the frame is my size and in great shape. So I may have another problem…..
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10-24-23, 07:54 AM
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Jimmie appears to have received a very nice respray and transfer application.
Transfers present as they may be varnish fixing.
Am thinking his portraits are taken in his U.K. living room.
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Jimmie appears to have received a very nice respray and transfer application.
Transfers present as they may be varnish fixing.
Am thinking his portraits are taken in his U.K. living room.
-----
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