I'm moving to Italy or Germany!
03-28-08, 03:17 PM
#101
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I lived in Sicily for 4 years while in the Navy and can't say enough good things about living there, people are friendly, the food is always fresh and the weather is great. Plus you can't beat the beaches and the pretty italian woman that go topless on the beaches 
....
Road biking was very popular there and I very rarely went a day without seeing at least a couple groups of guys riding.
.... Road biking was very popular there and I very rarely went a day without seeing at least a couple groups of guys riding.
03-28-08, 03:31 PM
#102
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A message from Mrs. Tequila Joe
Actually German women go topless on the beaches in Poland... I just didn't say pretty German women.
Ahem... I think Mrs Tequila Joe should get her own account on Bike Forums.
Actually German women go topless on the beaches in Poland... I just didn't say pretty German women.
Ahem... I think Mrs Tequila Joe should get her own account on Bike Forums.
03-28-08, 03:42 PM
#103
Genetics have failed me
Oh god yeah... Heidelberg Medical University. Female students, summer, hot weather, along the Neckar beaches... OH MY GOD! Yumm yumm!
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03-28-08, 05:09 PM
#104
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I didn't have time to read all the responses, but let me tell you as someone that lived overseas for 15 years in three different continents and 4 different countries (Belgium/Italy included): living overseas doesn't work out for most families. My family loved the experience, however we were in the minority. The majority of families were in and out in less than 1 to 2 years. Kids couldn't adjust, wife couldn't adjust, husband couldn't adjust, all it takes is one before everyone breaks down. Please have realistic expectations and a back up plan. That being said...
Random thoughts:
My pops worked for Citigroup, so we were corporate and most of the people we associated with in school were as well, i.e. not military. We (my bro and I) always went to international English speaking schools, which was an amazing experience. We had classmates from everywhere: the US, Canada, UK, Scandinavia, western Europe, eastern Europe, Africa, Asia... literally everywhere. Truly the most international experience I have ever had.
We traveled, we ate, we vacationed, we immersed ourselves into the culture. Many families didn't. In Waterloo Belgium there is a neighborhood called the American ghetto. Some of the families we knew didn't socialize outside of that community. That had to have been $hitty.
Regarding the language... Learning the language is important, but trying to learn the language is even more important. Don't assume people should speak English when you approach them and they will respect you more than the next.
Feel free to PM me if you would like to pick my brain.
Random thoughts:
My pops worked for Citigroup, so we were corporate and most of the people we associated with in school were as well, i.e. not military. We (my bro and I) always went to international English speaking schools, which was an amazing experience. We had classmates from everywhere: the US, Canada, UK, Scandinavia, western Europe, eastern Europe, Africa, Asia... literally everywhere. Truly the most international experience I have ever had.
We traveled, we ate, we vacationed, we immersed ourselves into the culture. Many families didn't. In Waterloo Belgium there is a neighborhood called the American ghetto. Some of the families we knew didn't socialize outside of that community. That had to have been $hitty.
Regarding the language... Learning the language is important, but trying to learn the language is even more important. Don't assume people should speak English when you approach them and they will respect you more than the next.
Feel free to PM me if you would like to pick my brain.
03-28-08, 05:42 PM
#105
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I have not had time to read all the posts, so forgive me if I cover stuff others have mentioned.
1) The German health care system is absolutely amazing. If anyone has griped about it, they either must have incredible cover over here, or have gotten themselves misinformed.
2) The cost of living is lower in Europe from my experience. But it depends where you live in the US. I live in Virginia, and everything that I actually use is more expensive. TV's and clothes can be cheaper, but I don't buy those. Food is usually much cheaper and of higher quality than it is in Virginia.
3) Make sure you get money in your local currency (i.e. Euro). I don't know how the Cdn$ is doing, but it would be nasty to see your wages eaten up by the trade deficit. I lived in Austria (a supposedly expensive country) on 1000 euros a month, and had a great time!
4) Many of the places I have been in Germany have had incredible bike facilities. Of course, they are designed for getting around at a sedate pace, not full on training, but man. My team mate who raced in Germany loved it. Plus he did not have to drive more than 2 hours to get to a race
I don't know much about Italy except that I love the Sued Tirol.
Enjoy!
1) The German health care system is absolutely amazing. If anyone has griped about it, they either must have incredible cover over here, or have gotten themselves misinformed.
2) The cost of living is lower in Europe from my experience. But it depends where you live in the US. I live in Virginia, and everything that I actually use is more expensive. TV's and clothes can be cheaper, but I don't buy those. Food is usually much cheaper and of higher quality than it is in Virginia.
3) Make sure you get money in your local currency (i.e. Euro). I don't know how the Cdn$ is doing, but it would be nasty to see your wages eaten up by the trade deficit. I lived in Austria (a supposedly expensive country) on 1000 euros a month, and had a great time!
4) Many of the places I have been in Germany have had incredible bike facilities. Of course, they are designed for getting around at a sedate pace, not full on training, but man. My team mate who raced in Germany loved it. Plus he did not have to drive more than 2 hours to get to a race
I don't know much about Italy except that I love the Sued Tirol.
Enjoy!
03-28-08, 06:01 PM
#106
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I think the Financial Times or The Economist had a relocation calculator on their website which you could use to calculate the cost of equivalent lifestyles in different countries.
03-28-08, 06:02 PM
#107
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THANKS! 
03-28-08, 06:06 PM
#108
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I didn't have time to read all the responses, but let me tell you as someone that lived overseas for 15 years in three different continents and 4 different countries (Belgium/Italy included): living overseas doesn't work out for most families. My family loved the experience, however we were in the minority. The majority of families were in and out in less than 1 to 2 years. Kids couldn't adjust, wife couldn't adjust, husband couldn't adjust, all it takes is one before everyone breaks down. Please have realistic expectations and a back up plan. That being said...
Random thoughts:
My pops worked for Citigroup, so we were corporate and most of the people we associated with in school were as well, i.e. not military. We (my bro and I) always went to international English speaking schools, which was an amazing experience. We had classmates from everywhere: the US, Canada, UK, Scandinavia, western Europe, eastern Europe, Africa, Asia... literally everywhere. Truly the most international experience I have ever had.
We traveled, we ate, we vacationed, we immersed ourselves into the culture. Many families didn't. In Waterloo Belgium there is a neighborhood called the American ghetto. Some of the families we knew didn't socialize outside of that community. That had to have been $hitty.
Regarding the language... Learning the language is important, but trying to learn the language is even more important. Don't assume people should speak English when you approach them and they will respect you more than the next.
Feel free to PM me if you would like to pick my brain.
Random thoughts:
My pops worked for Citigroup, so we were corporate and most of the people we associated with in school were as well, i.e. not military. We (my bro and I) always went to international English speaking schools, which was an amazing experience. We had classmates from everywhere: the US, Canada, UK, Scandinavia, western Europe, eastern Europe, Africa, Asia... literally everywhere. Truly the most international experience I have ever had.
We traveled, we ate, we vacationed, we immersed ourselves into the culture. Many families didn't. In Waterloo Belgium there is a neighborhood called the American ghetto. Some of the families we knew didn't socialize outside of that community. That had to have been $hitty.
Regarding the language... Learning the language is important, but trying to learn the language is even more important. Don't assume people should speak English when you approach them and they will respect you more than the next.
Feel free to PM me if you would like to pick my brain.
Thanks for the offer and you will likey see some PM from us.
Cheers!
T.J.
03-28-08, 06:10 PM
#109
Living the n+1
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I have not had time to read all the posts, so forgive me if I cover stuff others have mentioned.
1) The German health care system is absolutely amazing. If anyone has griped about it, they either must have incredible cover over here, or have gotten themselves misinformed.
2) The cost of living is lower in Europe from my experience. But it depends where you live in the US. I live in Virginia, and everything that I actually use is more expensive. TV's and clothes can be cheaper, but I don't buy those. Food is usually much cheaper and of higher quality than it is in Virginia.
3) Make sure you get money in your local currency (i.e. Euro). I don't know how the Cdn$ is doing, but it would be nasty to see your wages eaten up by the trade deficit. I lived in Austria (a supposedly expensive country) on 1000 euros a month, and had a great time!
4) Many of the places I have been in Germany have had incredible bike facilities. Of course, they are designed for getting around at a sedate pace, not full on training, but man. My team mate who raced in Germany loved it. Plus he did not have to drive more than 2 hours to get to a race
I don't know much about Italy except that I love the Sued Tirol.
Enjoy!
1) The German health care system is absolutely amazing. If anyone has griped about it, they either must have incredible cover over here, or have gotten themselves misinformed.
2) The cost of living is lower in Europe from my experience. But it depends where you live in the US. I live in Virginia, and everything that I actually use is more expensive. TV's and clothes can be cheaper, but I don't buy those. Food is usually much cheaper and of higher quality than it is in Virginia.
3) Make sure you get money in your local currency (i.e. Euro). I don't know how the Cdn$ is doing, but it would be nasty to see your wages eaten up by the trade deficit. I lived in Austria (a supposedly expensive country) on 1000 euros a month, and had a great time!
4) Many of the places I have been in Germany have had incredible bike facilities. Of course, they are designed for getting around at a sedate pace, not full on training, but man. My team mate who raced in Germany loved it. Plus he did not have to drive more than 2 hours to get to a race
I don't know much about Italy except that I love the Sued Tirol.
Enjoy!
I beleive Viginia and Calgary are about even for cost of living. A collegue on mine is from Virginia Beach and it seems, from what he has told me, things are about par between our cities. Your post put us at ease a bit, was the 1000 Euro/month for only yourself or did you support family too?
03-28-08, 06:10 PM
#110
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Cheers!
03-28-08, 06:52 PM
#111
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There are certain things to be concerned about though. Italy is politically and socially broken up into two areas. The north and the south, Rome being the center point. The government right now is a mess. Health care is almost non existent, at least in the south where I'm from. You might be OK since Bologna is in the north, but I'm not sure how the hospitals are over there or even the crime. Down in the south it's almost a different country since the Mafia has corrupt everyone and takes away all the money that is suppose to go towards schools, roads, sanitation and eduction. It's really bad in the south right now. When I was there in September, the sanitation workers refused to pick up the garbage cause there was no place to put it. So people would just dump it anywhere and it piled up over 20 feet high in some areas. My brother just came back from there and told me it's still like that but much much worse. It's a real shame cause it ruins the beauty of the country.
03-28-08, 06:56 PM
#112
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Hopefully that helps.
Az
(And BTW, it's Danke. Better get crackin' on that Rosetta Stone)
03-28-08, 07:07 PM
#113
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By the way, although I don't know who Zonker is, I'm intrigued; he's now my role model.
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03-28-08, 07:15 PM
#114
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A few thoughts from a fellow Canuck, I visited Europe in the summer of '06 when the TdF started in Strasbourg. The cost of living is definitely higher, and different. I assume you will be renting - don't expect to find a typical Cdn. style single family detached home, most of the housing is old. Gas cost 2x as much, but cars are generally smaller than over here.
I found Italy to be more expensive than Germany. Once people find out you are Canadian - they expect you to be at least bilingual.
Travelling around EU is easy. Hop on the Autobahn and in 2 hours you can be anywhere in Europe. The cultural experience is priceless especially for the kids.
2 years will fly by. Go for it. But don't sell the ranch in Cowtown - you'll never get back in the market when you come back.
Good luck.https://www.bikeforums.net/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
I found Italy to be more expensive than Germany. Once people find out you are Canadian - they expect you to be at least bilingual.
Travelling around EU is easy. Hop on the Autobahn and in 2 hours you can be anywhere in Europe. The cultural experience is priceless especially for the kids.
2 years will fly by. Go for it. But don't sell the ranch in Cowtown - you'll never get back in the market when you come back.
Good luck.https://www.bikeforums.net/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
03-28-08, 07:26 PM
#115
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03-28-08, 07:30 PM
#116
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A few thoughts from a fellow Canuck, I visited Europe in the summer of '06 when the TdF started in Strasbourg. The cost of living is definitely higher, and different. I assume you will be renting - don't expect to find a typical Cdn. style single family detached home, most of the housing is old. Gas cost 2x as much, but cars are generally smaller than over here.
I found Italy to be more expensive than Germany. Once people find out you are Canadian - they expect you to be at least bilingual.
Travelling around EU is easy. Hop on the Autobahn and in 2 hours you can be anywhere in Europe. The cultural experience is priceless especially for the kids.
2 years will fly by. Go for it. But don't sell the ranch in Cowtown - you'll never get back in the market when you come back.
Good luck.https://www.bikeforums.net/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
I found Italy to be more expensive than Germany. Once people find out you are Canadian - they expect you to be at least bilingual.
Travelling around EU is easy. Hop on the Autobahn and in 2 hours you can be anywhere in Europe. The cultural experience is priceless especially for the kids.
2 years will fly by. Go for it. But don't sell the ranch in Cowtown - you'll never get back in the market when you come back.
Good luck.https://www.bikeforums.net/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
We will rent over there, we have no intentions of buying there. Its too big of a commitment at this time.
03-28-08, 07:35 PM
#117
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I'm sure that would get her there in a heart beat!
03-28-08, 07:59 PM
#118
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Zonker is a character in the Doonesbury comic strip. A middle age lovable slacker.
03-28-08, 08:00 PM
#119
moth -----> flame
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YOu have two great options here - the most important point for me is that you should embrace the opportunity wherever you go. The main thing is to try to learn/immerse yourself in the native culture and not try to just recreate home. I'm from the UK originally and have travelled/lived in a few places over the years. The common theme for happiness amongst my ex-pat colleagues was whether they just tried to create a "mini-England" wherever they went, or actually lived/experienced life and appreciated the awesome opportunity to live in a different country. You'll all learn more about yourselves for the experience, and it ain't forever.
Enjoy this fantastic opportunity.
Enjoy this fantastic opportunity.
03-28-08, 08:25 PM
#120
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I am from southern Europe my wife is from northern Europe so I sort of have experience with the differences you might encounter culturally. You have to really take a good look at your way of living now and be sincere in deciding to what you can really adjust to. Both places are amazing in their own way, you will surely give up things if you choose one over the other but most importantly realize what you will be loosing just by crossing the big lake... In europe you work to live you dont live to work... (specially in the south)...We always say in this side of the ocean you have more sort of extravagant luxury... every thing is over sized...big rooms big bathrooms big cars ...in europe you dont have that type of luxury... luxury is attained by flavor or exquisitness...quantity or size is not as important...
I would not worry about a child that age as he will get use to anything...the tough part is always the elders...
I read in a previous post a great adjective describing italy.. chaotic...I call that more entertaining or fun...
Germany is clean and full of order..I think the cleanest bathrooms in all of Europe!!! For my wife that is great for me its amazinly boring...
We have friends from both countries and I must say they are the best people in the world..our italian friends with their constant happy and silly I wanna enjoy every minute of life... and our german friends laughing and enjoying life in a very dry humoristic (and organized) way!!! I love them all...
Of course I am generalizing and this is not always fair to any party but still..one judges based on ones experiences...
My guess is that for a more settled in their ways person...northern europe is the way to go...you'll be going to Italy, Spain and greece anyway for vacation...
For a more flexible person southern europe can be a blast...
Regarding food.... both places have amazing food.
but be careful it takes time to make good friends in europe as I believe americans and canadians are the easiest people in the world to talk to...
Finally, GET PAID IN EUROS!!!!!! This is a must....
And yes do go!!! And savor life in a diferent way!!! Best of luck.....
And cycling... Germany wins hands down... but in italy drivers are far more corteus towards cyclist than in the US
03-28-08, 08:42 PM
#121
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What ever is the decision, best of luck with it TJ!
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03-28-08, 08:46 PM
#122
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I agree 100% - just couldn't put it into my own words. Thank you for a concise and very descriptive comment.
I am from southern Europe my wife is from northern Europe so I sort of have experience with the differences you might encounter culturally. You have to really take a good look at your way of living now and be sincere in deciding to what you can really adjust to. Both places are amazing in their own way, you will surely give up things if you choose one over the other but most importantly realize what you will be loosing just by crossing the big lake... In europe you work to live you dont live to work... (specially in the south)...We always say in this side of the ocean you have more sort of extravagant luxury... every thing is over sized...big rooms big bathrooms big cars ...in europe you dont have that type of luxury... luxury is attained by flavor or exquisitness...quantity or size is not as important...
I would not worry about a child that age as he will get use to anything...the tough part is always the elders...
I read in a previous post a great adjective describing italy.. chaotic...I call that more entertaining or fun...
Germany is clean and full of order..I think the cleanest bathrooms in all of Europe!!! For my wife that is great for me its amazinly boring...
We have friends from both countries and I must say they are the best people in the world..our italian friends with their constant happy and silly I wanna enjoy every minute of life... and our german friends laughing and enjoying life in a very dry humoristic (and organized) way!!! I love them all...
Of course I am generalizing and this is not always fair to any party but still..one judges based on ones experiences...
My guess is that for a more settled in their ways person...northern europe is the way to go...you'll be going to Italy, Spain and greece anyway for vacation...
For a more flexible person southern europe can be a blast...
Regarding food.... both places have amazing food.
but be careful it takes time to make good friends in europe as I believe americans and canadians are the easiest people in the world to talk to...
Finally, GET PAID IN EUROS!!!!!! This is a must....
And yes do go!!! And savor life in a different way!!! Best of luck.....
And cycling... Germany wins hands down... but in italy drivers are far more corteous towards cyclist than in the US
I would not worry about a child that age as he will get use to anything...the tough part is always the elders...
I read in a previous post a great adjective describing italy.. chaotic...I call that more entertaining or fun...
Germany is clean and full of order..I think the cleanest bathrooms in all of Europe!!! For my wife that is great for me its amazinly boring...
We have friends from both countries and I must say they are the best people in the world..our italian friends with their constant happy and silly I wanna enjoy every minute of life... and our german friends laughing and enjoying life in a very dry humoristic (and organized) way!!! I love them all...
Of course I am generalizing and this is not always fair to any party but still..one judges based on ones experiences...
My guess is that for a more settled in their ways person...northern europe is the way to go...you'll be going to Italy, Spain and greece anyway for vacation...
For a more flexible person southern europe can be a blast...
Regarding food.... both places have amazing food.
but be careful it takes time to make good friends in europe as I believe americans and canadians are the easiest people in the world to talk to...
Finally, GET PAID IN EUROS!!!!!! This is a must....
And yes do go!!! And savor life in a different way!!! Best of luck.....
And cycling... Germany wins hands down... but in italy drivers are far more corteous towards cyclist than in the US
03-28-08, 08:55 PM
#123
Genetics have failed me
A few thoughts from a fellow Canuck, I visited Europe in the summer of '06 when the TdF started in Strasbourg. The cost of living is definitely higher, and different. I assume you will be renting - don't expect to find a typical Cdn. style single family detached home, most of the housing is old. Gas cost 2x as much, but cars are generally smaller than over here.
Anyway, I'm daydreaming, back on topic. Even if the houses are 200 years old, it doesn't matter. They cool better and retain the heat better than American homes. American homes suck when it come to building style and insulation. 'nuff said.
Thomas
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03-28-08, 08:58 PM
#124
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YOu have two great options here - the most important point for me is that you should embrace the opportunity wherever you go. The main thing is to try to learn/immerse yourself in the native culture and not try to just recreate home. I'm from the UK originally and have travelled/lived in a few places over the years. The common theme for happiness amongst my ex-pat colleagues was whether they just tried to create a "mini-England" wherever they went, or actually lived/experienced life and appreciated the awesome opportunity to live in a different country. You'll all learn more about yourselves for the experience, and it ain't forever.
Enjoy this fantastic opportunity.
Enjoy this fantastic opportunity.
I am from southern Europe my wife is from northern Europe so I sort of have experience with the differences you might encounter culturally. You have to really take a good look at your way of living now and be sincere in deciding to what you can really adjust to. Both places are amazing in their own way, you will surely give up things if you choose one over the other but most importantly realize what you will be loosing just by crossing the big lake... In europe you work to live you dont live to work... (specially in the south)...We always say in this side of the ocean you have more sort of extravagant luxury... every thing is over sized...big rooms big bathrooms big cars ...in europe you dont have that type of luxury... luxury is attained by flavor or exquisitness...quantity or size is not as important...
I would not worry about a child that age as he will get use to anything...the tough part is always the elders...
I read in a previous post a great adjective describing italy.. chaotic...I call that more entertaining or fun...
Germany is clean and full of order..I think the cleanest bathrooms in all of Europe!!! For my wife that is great for me its amazinly boring...
We have friends from both countries and I must say they are the best people in the world..our italian friends with their constant happy and silly I wanna enjoy every minute of life... and our german friends laughing and enjoying life in a very dry humoristic (and organized) way!!! I love them all...
Of course I am generalizing and this is not always fair to any party but still..one judges based on ones experiences...
My guess is that for a more settled in their ways person...northern europe is the way to go...you'll be going to Italy, Spain and greece anyway for vacation...
For a more flexible person southern europe can be a blast...
Regarding food.... both places have amazing food.
but be careful it takes time to make good friends in europe as I believe americans and canadians are the easiest people in the world to talk to...
Finally, GET PAID IN EUROS!!!!!! This is a must....
And yes do go!!! And savor life in a diferent way!!! Best of luck.....
And cycling... Germany wins hands down... but in italy drivers are far more corteus towards cyclist than in the US
I would not worry about a child that age as he will get use to anything...the tough part is always the elders...
I read in a previous post a great adjective describing italy.. chaotic...I call that more entertaining or fun...
Germany is clean and full of order..I think the cleanest bathrooms in all of Europe!!! For my wife that is great for me its amazinly boring...
We have friends from both countries and I must say they are the best people in the world..our italian friends with their constant happy and silly I wanna enjoy every minute of life... and our german friends laughing and enjoying life in a very dry humoristic (and organized) way!!! I love them all...
Of course I am generalizing and this is not always fair to any party but still..one judges based on ones experiences...
My guess is that for a more settled in their ways person...northern europe is the way to go...you'll be going to Italy, Spain and greece anyway for vacation...
For a more flexible person southern europe can be a blast...
Regarding food.... both places have amazing food.
but be careful it takes time to make good friends in europe as I believe americans and canadians are the easiest people in the world to talk to...
Finally, GET PAID IN EUROS!!!!!! This is a must....
And yes do go!!! And savor life in a diferent way!!! Best of luck.....
And cycling... Germany wins hands down... but in italy drivers are far more corteus towards cyclist than in the US
Thank you for sharing your experience.
T.J.
03-28-08, 09:03 PM
#125
Living the n+1
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ViperZ! Haven't seen you in these parts for quite sometime. Its nice to see a sign of life.
Thanks for the well wishes. We still need to figure out if we can make ends meet over there. We will be going from two good salaries to one salary, possibly in an area with a much higher cost of living. (To be confirmed) This is going to be a big change.
I still need to pitch our proposal to my company but I beleive they will accept it if reasonable.
Cheers!
T.J.
Thanks for the well wishes. We still need to figure out if we can make ends meet over there. We will be going from two good salaries to one salary, possibly in an area with a much higher cost of living. (To be confirmed) This is going to be a big change.
I still need to pitch our proposal to my company but I beleive they will accept it if reasonable.
Cheers!
T.J.