rosefarts

This isn’t about what you think is more elegant. Or reliable. Or serviceable in Guatemala 🇬🇹 r whatever.

Its simply a question, too broad to be a poll, about what you think the last great high end mechanical group will be? Are they all doomed? Or will one find a niche, just like the Blockbuster video in Bend, OR and survive.

Immediately, I’ll dismiss all road groups from the big 3. They’re all electric and may soon not have any mechanical counterparts.

Mountain groups have more mechanical options but they’re trickling into electrical.

There are currently 2 gravel groups. Campagnolo Ekar and new unreleased 12s GRX that are mechanical. Are these the last of the breed?

Will Microshift and TRP and others little guys become sufficiently high end for the cable pulling crowd?

Will there be an electric shifting crash? What are 20 year old used bikes going to look like in 19 years?

I’m not judging electric shifting. For my riding, I rode a wireless Archer system for the last year and a half but am switching it back to mechanical (Ekar) because I couldn’t reach the shifter from the drops and wanted a 13s cassette. My mountain is mechanical and the NX group on it knows that it’s one missed shift from the AXS upgrade kit.

Polaris OBark

My (half-serious) conspiracy theory of shifting is that they pushed it a little bit too far with 12-speed, and it is simply too finicky to shift well mechanically, so they really have to have electronic 12+-speed shifting going forward, in order to have the reliability everyone expects from the top of the line components. The SRAM hangerless transmission is also best understood in those terms.

seypat

Depends on what you call high end. All levels of groups shift well enough already. You're just paying for lighter/more durable components and bling as you move up the ladder.

delbiker1 

If the question is just about operational survival, likely a friction shifter of some kind. If the question is about still being manufactured with, a relatively high usage likely going to be an off brand, i.e., Microshift. As seypat stated, depends on perception of what high level is. It appears it will not be one of Shimano's top 3 levels. However, most top tier components are going to be available for many years.

rosefarts

This has become a more legitimate question in recent times. There was a time when things like Sora and Tiagrawere just so bad that no such argument could be made.

Ill concede your point.

For the purposes of this thread, I’m thinking 105, Rival, or Chorus approximately.

That determination makes even less sense once you think about mountain bike and gravel groups.

Let’s say mid tier, stuff that’s nice enough that the companies would give it their full effort, even if it’s not their best stuff.

rosefarts

I have mechanical groups from the 80’s that still work. That’s not my question.

I want to know what the last brand new mechanical group will be. A fancy one that wouldn’t be out of place on a fancy new bike.

nick_a

I'd guess it'll be something from Rene Herse or Rivendell.

Bald Paul

39 year old used bikes?

rosefarts

A 2022 bike in 19 years.

Even kept indoors, batteries don’t last forever. Will there be compatible replacements? It makes me wonder if there is going to be a more massive depreciation, not unlike old electronics.

Im the furthest thing from a retro-grouch. Just musing.

rosefarts

Ooh, like a Velo Orange or something.

I could see that. A highly polished brand new group for retro-mods but not actually offering new technology. That’s a different take than something like GRX or Ekar with hydraulic brakes, clutches, and 1x.

seypat

Upper end Microshift and it's clones. Maybe the last DA mechanical group, whateverthat is or was.

mpetry912 

I'd suggest that if you find a setup that you like, lay in some spares.

The Campagnolo brifters can be repaired and the wear parts like the spring and ratchet wheel are available still.

for friction / downtube, the Campagnolo "doppler" shifters paired with a mid year rear derailleur are very hard to beat. I have such a setup on one of my bikes and it is a delight to operated.

or the Riv "silver" retrofriction shifters.

/markp

tcs

Fun fact: a 1923 Sturmey-Archer three-speed (indexed) shifter will index shift a 2023 Sturmey-Archer chain pull three-speed hub.

tyrion

Terrible business planning.

/s

ofajen

I think the current reality is already well beyond that. RH have produced a new RD and it does use new technology, at least for mechanical derailleurs. Dual cable pull, no return spring, direct cable run and a new dropout on the chain stay to attach it. Interestingly, it is in a sense mimicking the new dual pull tech of electronic derailleurs.

https://www.renehersecycles.com/nive...eurs-are-here/

Otto

datlas 

More importantly, will the shifters (assuming they are in the brake levers) support rim brakes??

I am afraid we have reached/passed “peak cable shifting/braking.”

I hope that’s not true.

Answer to OP question is Dura-Ace R9100. I could not afford it so I bought Ultegra R8000, which is also a good choice. Both have been supplanted by electric/hydraulic shifting/braking.

stevel610 

Won't be a "last". Once every road bike has electric, they will come out with a new mechanical option to sell to those who seemingly always want to have the next shiny object. Or once people need to start paying $2500 to replace a nearly new condition, though chronologically a few years old, mech whose batteries went bad and no new batteries are made.

delbiker1 

Likely true. Something like the friction brifters that are being developed. Whatever the components become, they are too late for me.

tyrion

Electric will dominate racing, but I think even the Big 3 will realize there's a large market of performance oriented people that aren't chasing the marginal gains to the extent of worrying about batteries and charging. If the Big 3 abandon that market it leaves a bigger opening for the smaller players (TRP, Microshift, etc.), and Shim/SRAM/Campy do not want that bigger opening.

masi61

Being a mostly Shimano user for the majority of my biking resume' years, I never really invested in much Campy. But now that Campy mechanical groups seem to be going away I started doing a search Campy disc specific mechanical group parts and when I checked Merlin UK they appear to be sold out of the Chorus, Record and Super Record mechanical disc components now. Could anyone suggest other online suppliers that still are stocking mechanical campagnolo disc specific road components?

I have a titanium frame that has a sandblasted "Campagnolo" logo on the seat tube. It was built up that way custom for a bike trade show that the builder took it to. It (my Wittson Illuminati #2) will most likely be be built up with components other than Campy. Unless that is, unless someone could point me to a vendor that still has some in stock.

chaadster

I think we’ve already seen the last high-end mechanical gruppo in Campagnolo Ekar. It innovated with 13spd, but I don’t think we’ll see any more innovation in the mechanical group ranges from any of the drivetrain brands from here on out. That’s not to say mechanical groups will go away or won’t get better, only that one will never be a top-of-range offering again from a prestigious maker at premium pricing. So sure, LTWOO or Microshift might do improved mechanical gruppos in the future, but I doubt they’ll ever be considered “high end.”

tyrion

https://www.wiggle.com/us/c/cycle/bi...ame=Campagnolo

79pmooney

Isn't that shifter a ratchet shifter, not retro-friction? I thought it was a prettied up SunTour Power Ratchet with much finer ratchet teeth (many more clicks) so it can handle the narrower cog spacings. (I'm seriously thinking about asking TiCycles to make the "box" that sits on top of the DT (like a Symmetric) and buying a pair. I hate the usual DT shifters because I hit the right one with my knee on really steep hills. As small cogs get smaller, this becomes less fun.)

mpetry912 

splitting hairs here but yeah the Riv Silvers are ratcheting

The Campy Dopplers are true retro friction

tomato tomahto

/markp

DangerousDanR

One more time...
https://www.campagnolo.com/us-en/roa...cal-groupsets/

Campagnolo's web site still lists mechanical rim brake and hydraulic disc brake group sets at the Super Record level in addition to the new wireless Super Record group set. The wired Super Record electronic has been discontinued.

For my recent build the choice of Ekar for a road bike was pretty easy from a price / weight / performance point of view. I have an older Chorus EPS, and if a Chorus level electronic group had been available I would have gone with it, but I just couldn't see spending an extra $4,000 (I had an Ekar crank sitting around) to get the electronic Super Record.