repechage

‘not stated yet but I will, I would expect that if the bike was ever sold off, the repairs and modifications would be disclosed.

merziac

Not your call sport, that's the thing with criticism, constructive or otherwise, often given when unwanted but given none the less and you have the choice to take it, leave it or whatever you want.

Your reaction is the most fun as you proceed to criticize us indignantly for criticizing you, fun, but again, not your call.

I won't ad you to ignore, you of course are free to do what you want so carry on.

88ss

Oh, and by the way, I do not drink coffee and would never spend a dime at Starbucks. The Starbucks I took this photo at is one on a regular route I ride, and often as I ride by the line of SUVs etc. lined up in it's drive-through I will taunt them with "Starbucks is for losers" etc.. What Starbucks does have to offer is a generic backdrop for a photograph that can not be associated with any particular part of the USA or world for that matter, because they are all over like the plague, which they actually are......

pastorbobnlnh 

This thread--- makes me want to . So sad. Reminds me of the US Congress.

oneclick 

Back in the good old days of Fidonet Zone 2 there was a two-part precept:

1) Thou shalt not excessively annoy others.
2) Thou shalt not be too easily annoyed.

Newbies were usually allowed extra time to fit in; those who didn't, didn't.

Mr. 66

I drink coffee, not much of Starbuck's. Why are you promoting a company that you don't like? That company like or hate is a job creator. Interesting company, The owner, Howard Shultz, he couldn't run a basketball team worth a crap, lol. The way he ran that team was very poor, so bad that he had to sell because the press was bad it was hurting the public opinion of the Starbucks company stock. Let alone was a laughing stock of the NBA. I used to go to Starbucks when they roasted in house at the Pike Place Market location.

So I don't drink Starbucks often and don't watch NBA at all.

I think I like Starbucks more than the jackash comebacks.

88ss

Wow, I don't think I ever saw anyone quote me before, then ask a question that was answered right in what they quoted. A new benchmark for illiteracy(sorry for using such big words). And welcome to my ignore list, keep em' coming.....

machinist42

Have you assessed the alignment of the frame since your "Alterations/Repairs," even with a crude "string test," which can reveal misalignments which can escape the naked eye? How does it ride without hands?

Ron Cooper famously never used a jig, but did use his Holidays to travel here and check the alignment of his bikes after shipping.

Did you compare the LeTour with your "Paramount" before or after your "Alterations/Repairs?" (You know, your measuring tape and ride evaluation exercises?) Which Columbus tubed bikes have you ridden?

Don't think it's fair for you to judge Schwinn's Paramount with your example. You've altered the geometry with your repair efforts, and perhaps (albeit subtly) changed the characteristics of the metal at critical junctures. Who knows how it is now aligned?

You initially posted some illustrative informative photos and not unentertaining text, so thanks for that!

(Now you are Boring.)

(P.S. "...it's..." is not possessive and always means "It is." In the above excerpt of your text its usage is not a high testament to literacy?)

polymorphself 

Soon OP will have added to his ignore list the majority of people who post here most, and who are also some of the most helpful. Won’t be much forum left for them to see!

repechage

made me laugh, the Starbucks success can be traced to the updating of the logo mark where they strategically covered the mermaid’s breasts with flowing hair.
as good a reason as any.
I liked Peet’s until after the New German masters took full control. Menu boards to jumbo screens, streamlined offerings. No more peetnick “vibe”

Andy_K 

It's really too bad that this thread went the way it did, because the OP shared some very interesting and novel work, and I'd have loved to have seen more productive conversation about it.

I can kind of understand why the OP took the turn he did -- he's sharing some work which showcases his personal skills and which he seems to be quite proud of with a bunch of strangers, and his perception is that many people dumped on it. Regular participants in this forum will have to admit that this kind of thing has been known to happen on this forum. We often have more questions than tact. Knowing most of the people who responded, my perception was that they weren't trying to be critical or hostile and were objectively less so in this case than I've seen in the past, but it seems pretty clear that the OP took it as critical and maybe hostile, possibly due to the volume of less-than-positive responses as much as anything.

On the other hand, @88ss, there are some things you seem not to have known about this forum. We are a relatively tight knit community, not just a collection of random people. Many of us know each other "in real life" as they say, and so our expectations tend to be more like how you'd talk to people face-to-face than the usual anonymity-based internet social conventions. For example, in this thread you've had beef with several people I consider friends, and that gives me an initial negative personal view of you, which I'm trying to put aside because I don't know you. I'm mentioning this because what you started with here is very interesting, and I'd love to see more stuff like this from you in the future.

As an example, starting with the first reply on this thread from @davester,

Maybe you took that as some guy telling you your baby is ugly. I don't think that's what he meant though. You clearly have a lot of skill and experience as a welder, so I would have loved to have read your explanation of why this kind of a weld is safe. I wondered the same thing. I'd feel better about the steerer than the head tube because the steerer is thicker, but I had to admit that I don't even know if the thickness of the tube matters in the strength of this sort of weld and if it does how thick the tube needs to be. You seem like you probably know that sort of thing. Please share instead of just being offended that your judgment was questioned.

The point is, we don't know you. We don't know your background or skill level. Most of the people here know a fair bit about vintage bikes, and some even know a fair bit about metallurgy. I think only a few know much about welding specifically. We know things like the fact that Reynolds 531 was generally not considered tolerant of the heat level necessary for welding. So when we see what you did it raises questions. Sometimes the questions are misguided based on insufficient knowledge of the details of the problem. Be patient and share what you know.

merziac

^^^^^^^^
Great perspective from @Andy_K as always.

That being said this "repair" encompassed several, too many hot button, scary issues that we get after any time they come up.

It was obvious that they were done skillfully but even those of us that don't do such things know some of the best don't do these, let alone so many at a time.

The expertise required is not in question here, he clearly has that, the lack of understanding that these are not normally done without serious rationalization isn't going to go well, especially when jumping in with both feet and taking offense pretty much right out of the gate.

We are a tolerant lot despite our short comings and this was doomed from the jump IMO given the OP's disregard for our forum and expertise when we question his work.

So once again, someone comes hat in hand and gets butt hurt when we don't fully embrace their deal the way they think we should.

chain_whipped

Same at the famed Jack Taylor shop. They would just hold the frame up to a window and sight it. Tweak bend, back to the window and check. Lol

Roger M

This thread takes me back a couple of years to the Mercet fan boy that started a couple of trainwreck threads. Might be a good pairing...

polymorphself 

Andy_K is right, of course.

OP was a little too critical of the friendly critique. The rest of us take it for granted that new people will “just get it” (many do!). Recipe for disaster. OP was poked and poked back twice as hard.

Given the size of this community (a word I hesitate to use almost anywhere else in my life, but feel surprisingly comfortable to use here), I think OP will find that blocking many contributors upon first offense will lessen the enjoyment of their time here. The responders have lightened up and I can see a more constructive turn happening.

OP, stick around, this is the best bunch you could find in relation to your hobby. Sprinkle some benefit of the doubt around and you’ll see that no harm was meant.

merziac

You may be right but this one seems far from our hive mind and not even remotely receptive despite his ranting to the contrary.

His off the wall approach would likely get quickly, completely and summarily blown out of the water by any more technical than us, can't imagine how this might have gone in an active, actual framebuilders forum.

polymorphself 

For sure, I suppose what I'm saying is that though I am wary, it seems worth one more shot for the OP. I can understand easily feeling poked at in an internet forum where tone, inflection etc can be received differently by each person, but OPs responses were much harsher than anyone would have expected or deserved.

merziac

@polymorphself

Absolutely agree and like I told him, won't be ignoring him as he suggested.

Nothing wrong with being strong in your conviction, I'm as guilty of that as anyone but when forum opinion doesn't swing your way a gut check can go a long way.

As we see/saw, that ain't happenin here.

Andy_K 

That's one of the things I find fascinating about this. He did post the same information on the frame builders forum and while the reception wasn't necessarily enthusiastic, there was a distinct lack of people telling him it was a bad idea. In fact, @bulgie even offered a reason why cutting the top of the steerer and cutting more threads might not be the best solution (beyond the OP's very valid "working with the tools and skills I have" reason).

88ss

Right, if you do not know someone, then the right thing to do is make assumptions ??? I would not care if it were my best friend or closest family, if I had to sit and listen to them talk about something after they opened with "I am no expert" I would certainly interrupt them and stop them as soon as I could and tell them how they could do better, and they would thank me for it. It does not matter who posts what, you don't have to know them, you could do the right thing and comment about the subject at hand, it has nothing to do with who welded this or brazed that. If you research the subject and actually know what you are talking about then you will either not comment at all, or comment in a constructive way. I am perfectly happy with the way this thread went, I don't see any problem with it at all. If someone likes it great, if they don't then go find something else to do. I would because that is the sensible thing to do. You go spend time reading and making threads that you enjoy, and I will do the same, and you have no obligation to please me, and I have no obligation to please you or anyone else but myself. I have no idea what you are trying to do with your activities here and I don't care, it is your business not mine. I have my reasons for doing what I do and not only is it none of your business why I act, you can not assume to know why I do what I do any more than the neighbor's cat. Your assumption that you will see more of anything from me is just an unfounded assumption as I have never repaired a bicycle frame before and have no plans to do so again, it is not my business or hobby, riding is. If something keeps me from riding I fix the problem, and a frame break has only kept me from riding a bike twice since the 1960s, so neither you nor I are likely to live to see it happen again. Good luck in finding someone who needs help with something, I have all the help I need thank-you very much.

88ss

The bike goes great no-hands and handles like a champ. If you actually do any research on Schwinn frames you will see that the head tube and seat-tube angles are the same, so removing the same amount from each will not change any critical angles at all. Also since it is one of the tallest Paramount frames sold, if any Reynolds 531 frame would give a noticeable nice ride it would be this one, but it does not especially compared to a Columbus framed bike I have of the same size, it is far more harsh. But that is not surprising since 531 is ancient technology from the 1930s, and it has more snob appeal to offer than anything else. Personally I have no problem with it, I just refuse to make it into a god and worship it as many do, I don't need any gods thank-you very much. I will have 200 miles on it soon, as I ride enough, I did 160 miles last week alone and always get at least a hundred in, and I am going to really, really enjoy racking up the miles on this Paramount. You and your friends help make my riding much more enjoyable because as I rack up the miles on my bikes that do not suit your tastes, I get to watch you eat lots of crow, enjoy.........

merziac

You came to us, sought us out and joined in the fun, all good.

What you failed to do is show a modicum of humility, immediately standing your ground when we questioned your method and logic, taking it as an all out attack, pushing back and making it very much our business as you're in our space and face.

Again, not your call how we respond, if you were going to limit the input you were willing to tolerate, you came to the wrong place, move on and find others that don't know any better so you can amaze them with your mad skilz.

merziac

Agreed and I got all that, you know I'm especially guilty of the same and was good with it for what it was but not his reaction and responses.

He quickly showed his true intentions and that he had no plans to take anything other than adoration and praise from us in our sandbox.

Not happenin here, as we quickly saw.

Also I would imagine the framebuilding forum had a collective " this guys pretty good at getting away with stuff that ain't quite right but he's getting it done and as long as he's not doing it for others it's ok for now" moment.

repechage

almost equal in magnitude to the new fellow that painted and decaled a non-descript bike as a DeRosa and felt that was just Grand.
‘we have standards.

machinist42

Not True: The tallest Paramounts had steeper head tube angles than seat tube, by necessity as the top tube remained the same length. And if you did any research on Schwinns and Paramounts in particular, you'd have learned:

"Starting in 1971,...(y)ou could customize your Paramount in a variety of ways, including custom gerometry."(sp) Source, Waterford.

So you haven't checked basic alignment in any quantifiable objective manner?


Not "eating crow" and you certainly are not watching.

Happy to have enhanced your riding experience, although really, it's all in your head.

Asked for data and all you offer is defensive drivel.

If you can't be informative or entertaining, could you try to be Kind or at least not an Ass?

Good Day.