Will there be bicycles after the Apocalypse?
07-25-13, 02:37 PM
#102
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I live in a city of roughly 1 million people. Let's say there are maybe a dozen locksmiths in my town, I'll be generous and say 6 dealerships per make (10 makes of car?), so 60 dealerships with a staff of a dozen mechanics each, so 720. Auto theft rates are low, maybe we have 100 thieves who know how to do this really well.. so in total there's about 850 who you could say have the tools and a thorough know-how or 0.085% of the population.
I suppose that could be increased if you add in people who read an article on the web about it.
Not saying its not easy, just that I don't think there are a huge number of people who are aware and who have done it or would be able to do it given the scenario.
07-25-13, 05:48 PM
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That's true. Northern Ontario is nothing but lakes ,forests and swamps and no roads. The only way to travel would be by canoe, walking or snowshoes during winter..It would be very easy to dissapear and not see another human being for the rest of your life.
07-26-13, 12:01 AM
#104
In the right lane
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Yet the Lykovs lived permanently on the edge of famine. It was not until the late 1950s, when Dmitry reached manhood, that they first trapped animals for their meat and skins. Lacking guns and even bows, they could hunt only by digging traps or pursuing prey across the mountains until the animals collapsed from exhaustion. Dmitry built up astonishing endurance, and could hunt barefoot in winter, sometimes returning to the hut after several days, having slept in the open in 40 degrees of frost, a young elk across his shoulders. More often than not, though, there was no meat, and their diet gradually became more monotonous. Wild animals destroyed their crop of carrots, and Agafia recalled the late 1950s as "the hungry years."
Read more: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/histor...#ixzz2a82eNhcz
Follow us: @SmithsonianMag on Twitter
Read more: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/histor...#ixzz2a82eNhcz
Follow us: @SmithsonianMag on Twitter
07-26-13, 07:48 AM
#105
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A while back, I read a story about a Siberian family that moved away from society and lived for some 40 years by themselves. Fascinating read.
source: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/histor...188843001.html
source: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/histor...188843001.html
Also, this story of a woman "disappearing" for 52 years in the Yukon. She wasn't without human contact, but if you've ever been to the Yukon, there isn't much to stop you from doing just that.
https://www.theprovince.com/news/Afte...022/story.html
07-26-13, 07:51 AM
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Living voyageur style would be pretty cool, but obviously really tough.
07-26-13, 08:20 AM
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Not if their were a half billion others (population of NA) in the same boat seeking a safe place to get away... Such fantasy's tend to fail when there are others seeking such isolation in large numbers... And despite beliefs that this area is truly isolated, think how quickly you could get there right now, if you chose. You wouldn't need a non-car type transportation till the last few tens of miles... And neither would those other half billion people.
07-26-13, 09:06 AM
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don't remember the title of the paperback, but the premise was something (alien virus?) ate all oil and everything that was made with oil as a component (tires, drugs, plastics,).
we were back to wood, iron, leather, animal propulsion, animal tallow/lard as a lubricant. there was a steam engine using animal grease to lube the moving parts.
i loved that book.
we were back to wood, iron, leather, animal propulsion, animal tallow/lard as a lubricant. there was a steam engine using animal grease to lube the moving parts.
i loved that book.
07-26-13, 09:07 AM
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I often find myself thinking about that sort of thing, I have become a fan of apocalyptic movies and tv in the last few months and have wondered why no one rides bikes. On film I imagine it is because it isn't as dramatic mad max cars and killing people for fuel.
I think "what would be your choice of bikes in a post apocalyptic world?" Is an interesting question.
I think "what would be your choice of bikes in a post apocalyptic world?" Is an interesting question.
07-26-13, 09:22 AM
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With Roody on this one. I remember the Zombpocalypse Prepper wave back around, what, 2008? Everyone would get these detailed "bug out" kits and talk long over their gear and plans, but rarely did any of these involve communal goods (something to attract and help others) or even a list of first contacts to team up with, should SHTF.
It could be that I am unusual, as my first thoughts are about others and how I can help them and in turn how we can support each other. But, I walked away from the Zombpocalypse wave with the distinct feeling that your garden-variety prepper was really just a sociopath waiting for society's fall mostly so he can brutalize others without fear of reprisal. As that wave died down, they just became general-purpose disaster preppers, but again none of their plans encompassed things for others. Things like large pots for boiling water, large stills for filtering it, etc.
Of course, I'm probably the first guys the prepper-sociopath go after, so they can get all my nice things.
M.
It could be that I am unusual, as my first thoughts are about others and how I can help them and in turn how we can support each other. But, I walked away from the Zombpocalypse wave with the distinct feeling that your garden-variety prepper was really just a sociopath waiting for society's fall mostly so he can brutalize others without fear of reprisal. As that wave died down, they just became general-purpose disaster preppers, but again none of their plans encompassed things for others. Things like large pots for boiling water, large stills for filtering it, etc.
Of course, I'm probably the first guys the prepper-sociopath go after, so they can get all my nice things.
M.
07-26-13, 09:35 AM
#112
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For small bands, consensus probably works best. Everybody comes to agreement on a course of action, then a temporary (pro tem) leader is appointed to see that it gets done.
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07-26-13, 09:47 AM
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Not if their were a half billion others (population of NA) in the same boat seeking a safe place to get away... Such fantasy's tend to fail when there are others seeking such isolation in large numbers... And despite beliefs that this area is truly isolated, think how quickly you could get there right now, if you chose. You wouldn't need a non-car type transportation till the last few tens of miles... And neither would those other half billion people.
Look at the map north of Hearst, ON. You'll see Moosonee towards James Bay which has rail service and that's about it.
These are established communities too.
Even in Algonquin Park (a pretty small footprint in Ontario) it can take multiple days to get to certain points without seeing another person and there are possibly thousands within the interior corridor on a popular weekend.
I think the diffusion of people would be a bit more drastic too given the various directions the roads go to and eventually end, right? Its not like 500million are traveling highway 11 in Ontario and branching out at the same point.
07-26-13, 10:12 AM
#115
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Some native communities are only "reachable" by air travel. Its a multi day canoe/portage trip on foot from the nearest road.
Look at the map north of Hearst, ON. You'll see Moosonee towards James Bay which has rail service and that's about it.
These are established communities too.
Even in Algonquin Park (a pretty small footprint in Ontario) it can take multiple days to get to certain points without seeing another person and there are possibly thousands within the interior corridor on a popular weekend.
I think the diffusion of people would be a bit more drastic too given the various directions the roads go to and eventually end, right? Its not like 500million are traveling highway 11 in Ontario and branching out at the same point.
Look at the map north of Hearst, ON. You'll see Moosonee towards James Bay which has rail service and that's about it.
These are established communities too.
Even in Algonquin Park (a pretty small footprint in Ontario) it can take multiple days to get to certain points without seeing another person and there are possibly thousands within the interior corridor on a popular weekend.
I think the diffusion of people would be a bit more drastic too given the various directions the roads go to and eventually end, right? Its not like 500million are traveling highway 11 in Ontario and branching out at the same point.
In a post-apocalyptic world, I wonder if you wouldn't be better off living even further north as an Eskimo, rather than in the boreal forest. At least along the Arctic Ocean you have a reliable food source (marine life) and easier transport.
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07-26-13, 10:34 AM
#116
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With Roody on this one. I remember the Zombpocalypse Prepper wave back around, what, 2008? Everyone would get these detailed "bug out" kits and talk long over their gear and plans, but rarely did any of these involve communal goods (something to attract and help others) or even a list of first contacts to team up with, should SHTF.
It could be that I am unusual, as my first thoughts are about others and how I can help them and in turn how we can support each other. But, I walked away from the Zombpocalypse wave with the distinct feeling that your garden-variety prepper was really just a sociopath waiting for society's fall mostly so he can brutalize others without fear of reprisal. As that wave died down, they just became general-purpose disaster preppers, but again none of their plans encompassed things for others. Things like large pots for boiling water, large stills for filtering it, etc.
Of course, I'm probably the first guys the prepper-sociopath go after, so they can get all my nice things.
M.
It could be that I am unusual, as my first thoughts are about others and how I can help them and in turn how we can support each other. But, I walked away from the Zombpocalypse wave with the distinct feeling that your garden-variety prepper was really just a sociopath waiting for society's fall mostly so he can brutalize others without fear of reprisal. As that wave died down, they just became general-purpose disaster preppers, but again none of their plans encompassed things for others. Things like large pots for boiling water, large stills for filtering it, etc.
Of course, I'm probably the first guys the prepper-sociopath go after, so they can get all my nice things.
M.
Of course I hope I am completely wrong.
07-26-13, 10:49 AM
#117
Sophomoric Member
Brilliant observations. As a borderline conspiracy theorist suffering from news overload, I anticipate an economic collapse in the U.S. in the next 10 years that will make the Great Depression look a mild recession. Thinking through my circumstances and the nature of my neighbors, I anticipate my family and I would be very vulnerable. I have begun to think about what I have or can do that would be of value to others in such an environment.
Of course I hope I am completely wrong.
Of course I hope I am completely wrong.
Given that zombies are unlikely, what form will the next woldwide catastrophe take? In no particular order, I vote for pandemic new diseases, global climate change, and nuclear and/or biological warfare. All of these are preventable (to some extent) with forethought and international cooperation.
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07-26-13, 10:52 AM
#118
In the right lane
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Not a good idea! No bike trails in the far north and don't think you can build a single track trail with a shovel and rake. So you'd be left with no BF and no bike!!!
07-26-13, 12:18 PM
#119
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07-26-13, 01:14 PM
#120
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There are many reasons that these areas are wilderness. Lack of food, impassability, large predators, and harsh climate come to mind. Even in pre-European times, almost no First Nation people lived in these subarctic forests. More people lived there after the European fur trade was established, but these trappers relied on the outside world for almost all of their food and other supplies.
In a post-apocalyptic world, I wonder if you wouldn't be better off living even further north as an Eskimo, rather than in the boreal forest. At least along the Arctic Ocean you have a reliable food source (marine life) and easier transport.
In a post-apocalyptic world, I wonder if you wouldn't be better off living even further north as an Eskimo, rather than in the boreal forest. At least along the Arctic Ocean you have a reliable food source (marine life) and easier transport.
Last edited by 350htrr; 07-26-13 at 01:45 PM.
07-27-13, 10:55 AM
#121
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I would say NO, NOT EVEN most of the Eskimo population could exist there any more, as most of the knowledge/skills needed have been lost to todays generation, there's zero forgiveness there for any miscalculation there... As for us city dwellers not a chance in hell... JMO As for living off the land anywhere, the same problem, not the right skillset, less than 1% city folk that made it to the wilderness, would survive out in the wilderness with or without a bicycle... again JMO
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07-27-13, 10:50 PM
#122
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Other is the Black Plague. A cataclysm where travel would make the situation worse. Either way, motor vehicles (motorcycle would be best) will make a more viable vehicle at least for the time immediately after the event for most situations.
07-28-13, 10:35 AM
#123
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The fall of Rome wasn't like that at all; it took place gradually over hundreds of years. People choose 476 as the date, but it really happened between, say 400 and 600, in a gradual way. Most people's lives didn't change that much, if at all, unless they were actually involved in a battle - but battles aren't unique to the Roman Empire.
It happened again in 455 and for a third time in 546. None of which were even remotely unnoticed by the residents of the city.
True, but the rider will. And the bike will break down, while a horse will breed replacements... Of course, while still working, motor vehicles will be faster, carry more cargo, and offer more security.
Now, good trade goods, if you'll are correct that bicycles would be in demand would be looting the local walmart for their bikes when the collapse occurs...
07-29-13, 08:09 AM
#124
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Once again, this has already been discussed on bikeforums. https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...-for-Commuting
07-29-13, 08:41 AM
#125
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A nod to John O'Brien's "A New World" zombie-like apocalypse series, available cheap for Kindle, https://anewworldseries.com/
Seriously, bike riding is a pretty fragile deal all around...both for the rider and the bike. Hiking out of the hills with a broken RD or wheel, I've done it - and it wasn't pretty. Personally, I can't see myself out-spinning a pack of wolves after living off squirrels and berries for a week. I'd want something I could sleep in and gave me 4 walls & a roof for protection. That old beat up Dodge Ram in my driveway, with camp/sleep bed insert, would be my preferred escape vehicle....w/siphon pump kit.
Seriously, bike riding is a pretty fragile deal all around...both for the rider and the bike. Hiking out of the hills with a broken RD or wheel, I've done it - and it wasn't pretty. Personally, I can't see myself out-spinning a pack of wolves after living off squirrels and berries for a week. I'd want something I could sleep in and gave me 4 walls & a roof for protection. That old beat up Dodge Ram in my driveway, with camp/sleep bed insert, would be my preferred escape vehicle....w/siphon pump kit.