surreal

You have GOT to be kidding me. For every 1 shop that is quick & gracious with repair/warranty issues, there are 4 that wouldn't replace anything without vicious mark-up and labor rates, and many would likely try to sell the OP a very expensive crank, or make him wait until they had enough stuff to order from QBP to make a shipment "worthwhile."

The thing about buying your own tools is, they generally pay for themselves by the 2nd or 3rd time you use them. This is b/c shops charge $30-$50 (often more) per hour on "labor", but pay the mechanic a pittance over minimum wage.

I agree that many BD bikes are turds, but so are most entry-level LBS bikes these days. The best thing about BD is that you don't have to deal with the greedy snakes at the shop.

fietsbob

Minimum wage pay in a bike shop is greedy ,
you are confusing a small business with the Military industrial Coroprate congressional complex
and the Oil. Coal and private Prison businesses , and Pharmaceuticals, health insurance , and all that stuff ..

surreal

I'm sorry, F-Bob-- let me try to explain it in your native language:

greedy shop owners
charge fifty bucks per hour
but pay minimum.

PatrickGSR94

Yes I would definitely be keeping the tools because I know I can use them again.

onespeedbiker

Okay, sounds like my wife also. Anyway, if the crank arm is steel, why not try bending it; even if it was misidrilled, you may be able to bend the arm to compensate for it until the new crankset arrives.

social suicide

Greedy shop owners pay rent, insurance, taxes, tools, advertising, etc. Greedy greedy greedy.
B/D makes no money, they just want people to ride bikes.

surreal

I never said BD wasn't greedy...In fact, all I said about BD was that many of their bikes are turds. I didn't defend BD; I merely slammed shop owners for their inflated prices, on both parts and labor.

If I had to buy a turd-bike, I'd be more likely to go thru BD than the LBS, mostly to save $100 or so. Not b/c BD is awesome, but it's the lesser (the cheaper) of 2 evils.

I've worked at a LBS; I understand the expenses involved. The thing is, that's not my fault. I'm not going to spend $150 for a part I can get online for $100. I'm not going to special order a part from the LBS and get it in ??? when I know I'll get it within a week online. I'm not going to spend $25 to install something that I can do myself-- the right way, in 20 minutes. Maybe I'm the greedy one. (More accurate term may be "stingy".)

Bottom line: I'm not going to pay extra money b/c many bike shops have a business plan that cannot compete in today's market. Further, I'm going to call ppl out when they try to guilt-trip online shoppers, and act as though an LBS is going to magically make everything all right when the POC crank on their cheap bike brakes. The fact is, you already paid for the replacement crank 3 times over when you overspent for the LBS version of the cheap BD bike.

PatrickGSR94

Well sure, most people like you and me with some mechanical knowledge and ability can save big bucks by buying online and installing DIY. But the large majority of the population do not have that ability. They wouldn't even know what to order online, much less how to install it. That's where the LBS does most of their business I think.

I personally will go to the LBS for little stuff that I think or know that they have in stock and can get right away. Things like cable housing cut to length, or cables, if I need them right away (like I did just the other day). Or for things where I want to try it in person, see it, feel it, etc. before buying. I thought about buying a Nashbar L'Orange floor pump, but ended up getting a Bontrager floor pump at the LBS for about the same price.

The only thing I don't like about my LBS is that they're the area Trek dealer, and as a result almost all their stock is Bontrager. Nothing against Bontrager, they have good stuff, but my gosh I feel like a Bontrager billboard sometimes. My road bike stem, computer, bar end plugs, bottle cages, my MTB seat post, gloves, SPD shoes, couple of my lights, all of it is Bontrager haha.

social suicide

I sure miss my hardware store downtown that I could walk to. Wood floors with footprints painted on. Knowledgeable helpful staff. Now I drive 5 miles to Menards or Lowes and talk to 19 yr olds who sell me crap from china that almost works. But I am soooo glad I'm saving money!

surreal

Excellent point, social suicide. Are you suggesting that the typical LBS doesn't have teenaged staff selling crap from china that almost works? Nine times out of ten, the thing you're buying from the LBS is the same exact thing as you'd be ordering online, unless we're talking about some NOS or used goodies. The main difference is the price, with usually around a 40% penalty for hittin' up the LBS.

Now, I have a different set-up at my local, whereby I come in with everything i need written down, along with my own person CSRP (customer's suggested retail price.) They tend to honor these, unless their distributors are charging the same for wholesale as many online dealers are for retail (happens more than you might think-- I don't even bother trying with Schwalbe tires.) But, one day I'll do an experiement, where I'll put everything I need in my niagaracycle.com shopping cart, take note of the total, and then go to some other lbs and ask them to order me the same stuff. My hypothesis?
-the staff will try to talk me into alternative components, either as unbidden advice or as some sort of "business decision" where they try to get me to buy the crap they have but cannot move
-it will take much longer for me to receive the parts
-it will cost much more than what I'd have got it online for.

All I'd get out of it, I suppose, is some satisfaction from passing my hard-earned dollars on to some local ppl who make a living by gouging cyclists. Is that really satisfying?

kmv2

haha, the illusion of saving a few dollars.

People wonder why there is such an income disparity and shortage of jobs in the USA.

Decent jobs in retail and manufacturing that would employ a whole community and power a local economy are now gone. A lot of people have to settle for less, and accept low paying jobs at WalMart/HD/etc..But..we saved a few bucks on your everyday purchases. The cost to manufacture something at the other end of the globe and ship it here in most cases reduces the quality and somewhat reduces the cost...but again.. saved a few bucks.

On the other end of it, even your food is at stake. Saving 10 cents in the middle of summer on a bushel of apples because it comes from South Africa, to me that is alarming... I mean, good news for South Africa, but what is Joe LocalFarmer going to do when he his farm goes bankrupt because people won't pay $1.50 vs $1.40 a pound for his produce?

Continue to "roll back" the prices and pave over these farmlands (bought up for cheap because who wants to compete with the global agricultural market??) to make superstores until most of the population makes minimum wage and you can barely afford to pay rent/mortgage? Or learn to accept a higher cost and get your local economies rolling again. Hopefully fuel keeps rising and people realize this sooner rather than later.

/rant

kmv2

Yeah man, damn locals trying to keep in business and create a community. Who needs local organized cycling events, and knowledgeable staff? Bike repairs? I'll just "email" the helpful folks at NashBar to guide me through the repair. I'm going to support some warehouse across the country and my good friends at UPS.

LBS selling a crankset at MSRP? I'd rather pay 40% off MSRP + shipping and then after it all adds up, save 0-5% overall.

surreal

You wanna wait and see how my experiment goes? Free shipping is plentiful online...

If the "danged locals" were content to make lower margins, they'd sell more items overall and make more long-term customers.

I've worked at a shop. I know what the wholesale cost is. Making 50pts (double cost) should be enough; still above online retailers, but close enough and comfortable profit. These jokers go for 150pts (quad cost) some times. I got real sour when I bought some SRAM pc830 chain; they had a bulk box, cut me enough for my bike, and charged me $29. For something that might've maybe cost them $5. That shop is off the list (Keswick Cherry Hill; stay away) but I wouldn't put it past most LBSs...

Other local businesses make do with earthly margins; why can't the bike shops?

kmv2

They can't, that's why they're going out of business.

Say you buy your PC830 chain for half price online, but for some reason you are inept and cannot install it, are you seriously going to go to a LBS and ask them to install it for you?

What do you do when they go out of business because everyone decided to buy online?

surreal

When they charged me $29 for a $10 chain that they paid $5 for, they didn't install it, nor did they offer to. I can't imagine what they would've charged for installation.

Their business model is messed up. That's not my fault, and if I foolishly overspent at the LBS, it wouldn't be enough to save them. They ought to be competitive with online retailers for parts, and make up for it on service, b/c that's the one area that online retailers cannot compete on.

social suicide

All I know is the bike shop boys frequent where I work. They go to my favorite nano brewery up the street. They scoop dog poop off the sidewalk in front of the shop. Useful people, in general. I think I learned in Kindergarten Econ 101 what goes around comes around. Aint nobody clicking on the services my employer offers.

PatrickGSR94

Update, I picked up the M131 crankset and UN55 BB for my wife's bike, and the necessary tools. Swapped oeverything out tonight. The old BB was Chia Haur brand, which I have read has a history of issues including catastrophic failure. The old crank arms were beastly forged steel, while the new one has aluminum arms. Weight was 1,680g vs. 1,073g, over 600 grams weight savings or 1.34 pounds, for only 25 bucks. Pretty sweet deal if you ask me.

Sixty Fiver

My wife would never let me work in the house like that... mind you... I have a well equipped shop.

Good job.

PatrickGSR94

lol wife was sleeping I usually work out in the garage but just didn't feel like it tonight. I had plenty of paper towels around for greasy stuff.

Drew Eckhardt 

I bought a nice bike made entirely in first world countries. Frame in Tennessee USA, fork Nevers France, gruppo Vincenza Italy, etc. with final assembly in Boulder, CO. That was about $3300 in 2013 dollars versus $1200 for a nice bike made in various Asian countries.

$2100 extra is more than a serviceable used car good for another 100K miles and hardly "a few dollars."

The governments conspiring with corporatist interests to increase the price of things like housing (they doubled prices and although it didn't stick the first time the Federal Reserve has been printing $40B of money a month to buy mortgages allowing lower interest rates and higher prices), education (6X inflation since 1978), health care (3.7X inflation), etc. don't leave us much money to "buy American."