Pedal holes in crank drilled out of square, crank recommendations?
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Memphis TN area
Posts: 7,391
Bikes: 2011 Felt Z85 (road/commuter), 2006 Marin Pine Mountain (utility/commuter E-bike), 1995 KHS Alite 1000 (gravel grinder)
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 676 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times
in
13 Posts
Pedal holes in crank drilled out of square, crank recommendations?
I got my wife's bike from BD a few months back, and recently noticed the pedals wobbling while riding and turning the cranks. I thought maybe it was the cheap POS plastic pedals it came with. So I picked up some alloy Wellgo bear traps the other day, and wow the bearings are like night and day difference, and surprisingly about 100g lighter for the set than the plastic pedals.
Well I noticed as I was threading the new pedals in that the pedal again wobbled as I turned the threaded spindle into the cranks. I'm thinking the crank holes are drilled out of square or something?
So anyway now I'm looking for a replacement triple crankset, preferably 48-38-28 to match what's on there. What would be a decent quality one to look at? The bike has Tourney parts on it, but the steel crank arms look even worse than the Shimano Tourney triple cranksets. Any other ones I might consider other than Tourney, that won't break the bank? Probably don't want to spend more than about $40-$50 for the crankset.
Well I noticed as I was threading the new pedals in that the pedal again wobbled as I turned the threaded spindle into the cranks. I'm thinking the crank holes are drilled out of square or something?
So anyway now I'm looking for a replacement triple crankset, preferably 48-38-28 to match what's on there. What would be a decent quality one to look at? The bike has Tourney parts on it, but the steel crank arms look even worse than the Shimano Tourney triple cranksets. Any other ones I might consider other than Tourney, that won't break the bank? Probably don't want to spend more than about $40-$50 for the crankset.
#2
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Memphis TN area
Posts: 7,391
Bikes: 2011 Felt Z85 (road/commuter), 2006 Marin Pine Mountain (utility/commuter E-bike), 1995 KHS Alite 1000 (gravel grinder)
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 676 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times
in
13 Posts
Also when the cranks turn, it looks like the chain rings are slightly off-center, so the rings move eccentrically around the BB spindle, which causes constant fore-aft movement of the RD jockey wheel arms. Basically the whole crank setup on the bike is a total POS.
How can I tell what BB the bike has? All I know is it's a square tapered spindle.
How can I tell what BB the bike has? All I know is it's a square tapered spindle.
Last edited by PatrickGSR94; 07-29-13 at 10:07 PM.
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,725
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5791 Post(s)
Liked 2,581 Times
in
1,431 Posts
As long as you have a sq. taper spindle, just about any crank you're likely to find will fit.
The key is spindle length, and you can measure that once the cranks are off.
The key is spindle length, and you can measure that once the cranks are off.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#4
Powerful-Ugly Creature
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 569
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
If it's wobbling as it's being threaded in, I have to think it's the pedal, not the crank arm. Doesn't matter what angle the hole is drilled at, it wouldn't cause the pedal to move back and forth as it's threaded in. I think all pedals that don't use cartridge bearings have some innate wobble. Or at least, the cheap ones do.
#5
Engineer
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bucharest, Romania, Europe
Posts: 591
Bikes: 1989 Krapf (with Dura-ace) road bike, 1973 Sputnik (made by XB3) road bike , 1961 Peugeot fixed gear, 2010 Trek 4400
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Simple explanation: the crank is bent (most likely inwards from a fall)
Or the pedal axle is bent (but for 2 different pedals? I doubt)
Or the pedal axle is bent (but for 2 different pedals? I doubt)
#6
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ffld Cnty Connecticut
Posts: 21,843
Bikes: Old Steelies I made, Old Cannondales
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1173 Post(s)
Liked 927 Times
in
612 Posts
If it's wobbling as it's being threaded in, I have to think it's the pedal, not the crank arm. Doesn't matter what angle the hole is drilled at, it wouldn't cause the pedal to move back and forth as it's threaded in. I think all pedals that don't use cartridge bearings have some innate wobble. Or at least, the cheap ones do.
If the hole is drilled at an angle, or the crank arm is bent, you will notice while riding. Your foot will tilt inwards and outwards as it goes arond.
__________________
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.
FYI: https://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.
FYI: https://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 30,225
Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1572 Post(s)
Liked 643 Times
in
364 Posts
Try threading in your new pedals from the wrong side of the crank. If they look OK and start easily with just your fingers, run them all the way into the crank arm. That will repair any minor thread damage in your crankarm.
#8
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Memphis TN area
Posts: 7,391
Bikes: 2011 Felt Z85 (road/commuter), 2006 Marin Pine Mountain (utility/commuter E-bike), 1995 KHS Alite 1000 (gravel grinder)
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 676 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times
in
13 Posts
Doubt it's the pedals, because as was mentioned both sets of pedals do the same thing.
Bike has never taken a fall as long as we've had it. Crank arm bent out of the box? I wouldn't even doubt that for a second. I really hate the look and feel of the steel crank arms on this bike. When turning the pedals, the chain rings and everything seem to wobble both laterally and radially. The RD jockey wheel arms move fore-aft constantly due to the radial wobble of the chain rings, and the chain seems to always touch one or the other FD plate at some point in the rotation because of the lateral wobble.
Could any of that wobbling be coming from the BB itself? Just wondering if I would need to replace that in addition to the crankset.
Bike has never taken a fall as long as we've had it. Crank arm bent out of the box? I wouldn't even doubt that for a second. I really hate the look and feel of the steel crank arms on this bike. When turning the pedals, the chain rings and everything seem to wobble both laterally and radially. The RD jockey wheel arms move fore-aft constantly due to the radial wobble of the chain rings, and the chain seems to always touch one or the other FD plate at some point in the rotation because of the lateral wobble.
Could any of that wobbling be coming from the BB itself? Just wondering if I would need to replace that in addition to the crankset.
#9
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ffld Cnty Connecticut
Posts: 21,843
Bikes: Old Steelies I made, Old Cannondales
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1173 Post(s)
Liked 927 Times
in
612 Posts
The BB bearings could be loose. The cranks could be loose. Can you post a picture of the crankset ? Sounds like some odd problems there.
__________________
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.
FYI: https://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.
FYI: https://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 33,656
Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2026 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,096 Times
in
742 Posts
My first thought is to contact Bikes Direct with your problem.
#11
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Memphis TN area
Posts: 7,391
Bikes: 2011 Felt Z85 (road/commuter), 2006 Marin Pine Mountain (utility/commuter E-bike), 1995 KHS Alite 1000 (gravel grinder)
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 676 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times
in
13 Posts
I can get a picture later. Here's a link to the bike on BD, but even this one has better-looking crank arms than on my wife's bike: https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...white_2100.jpg
Here's my wife's bike, I'll have to get a closer pic of the crankset later. The crank arms just have a really rough texture on part of it, with black paint on it, almost like it wasn't machined very well, and then just spray painted.
Here's my wife's bike, I'll have to get a closer pic of the crankset later. The crank arms just have a really rough texture on part of it, with black paint on it, almost like it wasn't machined very well, and then just spray painted.
#12
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Memphis TN area
Posts: 7,391
Bikes: 2011 Felt Z85 (road/commuter), 2006 Marin Pine Mountain (utility/commuter E-bike), 1995 KHS Alite 1000 (gravel grinder)
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 676 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times
in
13 Posts
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,700
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times
in
4 Posts
Well, that's the bad thing about Bikes Direct. They're inexpensive because they don't have any real customer service.
Were it my bike, I'd just get another crankset and if necessary a bottom bracket and replace it myself. That's not a high-end crankset on that bike. You should be able to get a much better one for not too much. Maybe like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-FC-M17...d_sim_sbs_sg_1
Were it my bike, I'd just get another crankset and if necessary a bottom bracket and replace it myself. That's not a high-end crankset on that bike. You should be able to get a much better one for not too much. Maybe like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-FC-M17...d_sim_sbs_sg_1
#14
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Memphis TN area
Posts: 7,391
Bikes: 2011 Felt Z85 (road/commuter), 2006 Marin Pine Mountain (utility/commuter E-bike), 1995 KHS Alite 1000 (gravel grinder)
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 676 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times
in
13 Posts
Yeah I didn't plan on going through anyone about this, but instead just getting the required parts which will be an upgrade anyway to what's on there now.
I think I looked at that one last night. Some of them say "requires 123mm BB" which I assume is the length of the spindle. What's the best way to check that? If I remove the crank arms I'm not sure my digital calipers are deep enough to measure the spindle length of the installed BB. They might, though.
I think I looked at that one last night. Some of them say "requires 123mm BB" which I assume is the length of the spindle. What's the best way to check that? If I remove the crank arms I'm not sure my digital calipers are deep enough to measure the spindle length of the installed BB. They might, though.
#15
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Memphis TN area
Posts: 7,391
Bikes: 2011 Felt Z85 (road/commuter), 2006 Marin Pine Mountain (utility/commuter E-bike), 1995 KHS Alite 1000 (gravel grinder)
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 676 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times
in
13 Posts
Dang I would probably order that Altus crank today if I thought I could get it here before we leave on our trip Friday. Probably not possible, not without a ton of shipping costs anyway.
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,725
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5791 Post(s)
Liked 2,581 Times
in
1,431 Posts
Yeah I didn't plan on going through anyone about this, but instead just getting the required parts which will be an upgrade anyway to what's on there now.
I think I looked at that one last night. Some of them say "requires 123mm BB" which I assume is the length of the spindle. What's the best way to check that? If I remove the crank arms I'm not sure my digital calipers are deep enough to measure the spindle length of the installed BB. They might, though.
I think I looked at that one last night. Some of them say "requires 123mm BB" which I assume is the length of the spindle. What's the best way to check that? If I remove the crank arms I'm not sure my digital calipers are deep enough to measure the spindle length of the installed BB. They might, though.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 3,783
Bikes: Bianchi San Mateo and a few others
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 634 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times
in
9 Posts
Shimano M131 Crankset (170mm, 48/38/28) - $24.20
Shimano UN55 Square Taper Bottom Bracket (68x122.5mm) - $19.27
XLC Crank Arm Extractor - $7.99
Park Tool BBT-22 Shimano Sealed Cartridge Bottom Bracket Tool - $16.95
You'd need a Crank arm Extractor to remove your current crankset and a bottom bracket tool to install the bottom bracket, so I listed Prime eligible options you could include in the same order if necessary.
You might not need a bottom bracket if your current one is the right length, but you may not know its length until you remove your cranks and measure. If you can reuse your existing bottom bracket, great! Just return the bottom bracket and tool at your convenience.
Last edited by SkyDog75; 07-30-13 at 10:39 AM.
#18
Banned
Bikes Direct seems to buy use of old familiar names , then gets Asian Factories to use them, on bikes .
had you not skipped the dealer , in quest of a bargain , they would be there to help you..
though for a fee they can get the crank that was a defective 2nd, replaced , without buying all your own tools..
had you not skipped the dealer , in quest of a bargain , they would be there to help you..
though for a fee they can get the crank that was a defective 2nd, replaced , without buying all your own tools..
#19
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Memphis TN area
Posts: 7,391
Bikes: 2011 Felt Z85 (road/commuter), 2006 Marin Pine Mountain (utility/commuter E-bike), 1995 KHS Alite 1000 (gravel grinder)
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 676 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times
in
13 Posts
Crank extractor? Couldn't I just knock the old crank arms with a good 'ol hammer?
What's better, the M131 Tourney crank or the M171 Altus? Reason I ask is that I can't seem to find the M171 sold/shipped directly by Amazon.
I'm not going to worry about it right now, I'll wait until after our trip. I don't want to have my wife's bike all in pieces on Thursday afternoon when we're leaving at around 6 AM Friday morning.
What's better, the M131 Tourney crank or the M171 Altus? Reason I ask is that I can't seem to find the M171 sold/shipped directly by Amazon.
I'm not going to worry about it right now, I'll wait until after our trip. I don't want to have my wife's bike all in pieces on Thursday afternoon when we're leaving at around 6 AM Friday morning.
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 3,783
Bikes: Bianchi San Mateo and a few others
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 634 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times
in
9 Posts
The only substantial difference I can seem to find between the M131 and M171 cranksets is that the M131 is only available in a 170 mm length while the M171 is made in 170 and 175 mm versions. And the plastic chain guard is cosmetically a little bit different. Otherwise, they mate to the same bottom brackets, require the same spindle length, come in the same chainring configurations, and even share the same PDF documentation on Shimano's web site.
Last edited by SkyDog75; 07-30-13 at 11:53 AM.
#21
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Memphis TN area
Posts: 7,391
Bikes: 2011 Felt Z85 (road/commuter), 2006 Marin Pine Mountain (utility/commuter E-bike), 1995 KHS Alite 1000 (gravel grinder)
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 676 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times
in
13 Posts
hmmm wonder which one is lightest
#22
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Memphis TN area
Posts: 7,391
Bikes: 2011 Felt Z85 (road/commuter), 2006 Marin Pine Mountain (utility/commuter E-bike), 1995 KHS Alite 1000 (gravel grinder)
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 676 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times
in
13 Posts
Went ahead with the M131 crank with the silver arms. I put all that stuff, plus the FR-1 freewheel removal tool, on a Save For Later list. Will probably order when we get back in town next week.
#23
Retro Grouch
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 2,210
Bikes: Yes
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Do you just assume the pedal has been wobbly from the beginning and your wife has never ridden the bike without you being present? As mentioned, the usual suspect of a wobbly pedal is a bent crank and a steel crank arm bends easier than aluminum. I know you already bought a new crank, but you may want to try to bend the steel crank arm out as if is was bent in. I have done this with steel crank arms before and it doesn't take that much effort; just get a piece of pipe that is big enough to slip over the the end of the crank arm.
#25
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Memphis TN area
Posts: 7,391
Bikes: 2011 Felt Z85 (road/commuter), 2006 Marin Pine Mountain (utility/commuter E-bike), 1995 KHS Alite 1000 (gravel grinder)
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 676 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times
in
13 Posts
Do you just assume the pedal has been wobbly from the beginning and your wife has never ridden the bike without you being present? As mentioned, the usual suspect of a wobbly pedal is a bent crank and a steel crank arm bends easier than aluminum. I know you already bought a new crank, but you may want to try to bend the steel crank arm out as if is was bent in. I have done this with steel crank arms before and it doesn't take that much effort; just get a piece of pipe that is big enough to slip over the the end of the crank arm.