AS Collie

Apologies if this has been covered before; I had a good look and couldn't find any old threads.

Why do so many people advise against fixing latex tubes? There seems to be an awful lot of nonsense on the internet -- surprise, surprise -- about them, but in my experience the only draw-back to them is that they lose pressure quicker than butyl. I pump before every ride anyway, so it doesn't bother me. I've also read/been told that they can't be repaired, for reasons that no one has been able to explain without resorting to a "someone told me" line. I've fixed them without any issue in the past; I'd go as far as to say that the patch jobs have been better on latex than some of the butyl tubes I use. Am I missing something?

Thanks in advance for any light that can be shed on this.

FBinNY 

Latex tubes are easily repairable. Tubular tire owners have been doing it for decades.

BUT

Most of the commercial patch kits sold are made for butyl tubes, and don't adhere properly to latex. Rema makes a latex specific patch kit, but it's not sold in the USA (maybe discontinued since I last bought any 15+ years ago).

Also the patch kits sold for tubulars are usually made for latex, but you'll have to find another use for the thimble, needle and thread.

AS Collie

Thanks for that. re: tubulars, that's what I always thought. Do you know what makes the rubber cement different for latex-specific kits? I'm wondering if the Velox one I'm using just happens to be good at it by sheer chance, because the patch I did last week seems to be holding firm.

It was the tubular thinking that got me using them in the first place; I tried a set of the Vittoria open tubulars and it seemed like the thing to do. I can't say for certain I feel a difference, but they're certainly no worse so I never went back to butyl because they cost the same in my LBS.

FBinNY 

If it works, then you're OK. I don't know the specifics, but assume it's a matter of chemistry relating to the patch itself or the vulcanizing fluid. I remember that patches made for latex didn't stick to butyl tubes and vice versa.

One other consideration. Older latex tubes can be a bit brittle. make sure the patch is thin and stretchy enough so it stretches with the tube, otherwise it might tear later on along the edge of the path, especially if undersized compared to the tire.

BTW- I never look for problems when I don't have one, so as I said if it works, stay with it. The post is more to explain which way to jump if it doesn't work.

Looigi

Agreed. Like their supposed benefits for example.

Fred Smedley

I suppose less rolling resistance , better handling and comfort aren't benefits. What was I thinking?

FBinNY 

It's long been conventional wisdom (an oxymoron if I ever heard one) that latex tubes helped lower rolling resistance by absorbing less energy when flexing than butyl tubes.

Of course we're talking a very marginal difference, if any. In any case it was never possible to compare since latex tubes were used in light supple tubulars, and butyl in heavier stiff tires, so it was impossible to tease out any meaningful data.

bobones

Latex tubes make a cool whooshing noise when you're on the road, so that's one benefit. I've never had a problem repairing latex tubes with normal patch kits. I use the lurid green Michelin tubes.

Fred Smedley

Never put a latex tube in a quality clincher?

FBinNY 

I don't ride quality clinchers. I still ride light tubulars on the road, and very garden variety tires on the commuter. Given the purpose there's no way I'd consider latex tubes for the commuter.

Meanwhile, If they offered thin butyl tubes in a quality tubular I'd probably give that a try.

Based on 50+ years riding and 45+ in the bike industry I'm pretty skeptical, and feel that most of the subtle differences in things like latex or butyl tubes are greatly exaggerated by true believers.

AS Collie

I'm using them in some of Vittoria's open tubulars and I have to say, I like them a lot. I haven't used superlight butyl tubes because they're more expensive for some reason in my lbs and I couldn't see a reason not to use the latex (the same lurid green Michelin ones).

I'd agree with you about the exagerated benefits, but I've never encoutered a benefit that hasn't been exagerated in the cycling world. I just figured they still put 'em in tubulars for a reason, so I went along with it. If I could get a butyl tube for 6 that was of similar quality I'd try it, but I can't.

All I know is that the cotton cased tyre with the latex tube is noticably better than the high-end nylon casing tyre with butyl tubes that I've used in the past. That's 99% the tyre, but I'd like to think that the latex tube does something. And if it just makes me feel better about it, I'm ok with that too.

FBinNY 

There's nothing wrong with the Placebo Effect if it works for you. Like you, I wouldn't pay extra for a butyl tube vs. latex.

I suspect that one reason we still see latex tubes in high end tubulars (besides tradition" is that it might be easier to produce thin lightweight tubes in latex compared to butyl. OTOH it might be that tradition rules, and nobody is producing thin butyl tubes in decent quantity because the market is adapted to latex.

I don't sweat what I consider nonsense details. I shop according to the tire not the tube, and as long as the light tubulars I use have latex tubes, I'll go with the flow. For my commuter, I buy generic butyl tubes to match my generic tires, since I don't see enough benefit to "better" tires for short rides on potholed streets full of glass.

Fred Smedley

The Lunar light FROM performance tubes are as light as latex , are similar in ride being 85-90% as subtle as latex, but not quite there IMO. My latex tubes in top tier clinchers ride as nice as my Latex Vittoria Corsa CX's , a known good riding tire. Put a latex tube in a 25 mm Michelin Pro 4 and you are lying if you think anything but the most expensive $120.00 tubular rides better. IMO of course.

rpenmanparker 

What 6 are we talking here: Euros, dollars or pounds? No way to get latex for $6 in the states. They cost more than light butyl in my experience.

Robert

AS Collie

I've got the Open Corsa CXs, and they ride great. So great, in fact, that they've stalled my purchase of a tubular set of wheels ... for now at least.

I know a lot of guys elsewhere will use light butyl for practicality, cost, habit etc but the shops here in Italy are behind the times in some respects and there doesn't tend to be a great selection of products. Whatever the owner likes is stocked and well, to hell with everything else. Now that I'm on latex, I'm convinced I can feel "something". They cost less than the butyls and they haven't given me any problems that I think I'd have avoided with butyl. So I'll stick with them, because it's easy and I like them.

The reason I posted on here was that I found it funny how something so established in cycling could have so little written about it online. And it really wound me up to see that what was written was the usual partisan hearsay that clouds too much discussion in cycling. Glad to see that some normal people have an opinion to share as well.

AS Collie

Hi Robert, that's Euro. For some reason my keyboard won't make that symbol on here. Your garden variety commuter butyl tube is about 4-5, and the only shop nearby with lightweight butyl charges 10, so for me it was a no-brainer.

Judging from experience, here in Italy the old stuff tends to cost less, so the shops have probably kept the same price for a latex for ages and marked up the newer lightweight butyl options. It's the same thinking that puts a pint of craft beer - the scene is new - at about the same price as a bottle of great wine here in Rome.

I actually swung by the shop today and bought a few more tubes for backup and the owner asked me what I was doing with them all ... they'll probably be 10 the next time I go in.

eja_ bottecchia

And don't forget to add: a greater degree of puncture resistance.

eja_ bottecchia

After many years of trying different tire/tube combos, I settled on Vittoria Open Corsa Cx tires with Vittoria latex inner tubes on all three of my road bikes.

I love the ride quality. Until something better comes along, I am sticking to these.

Fred Smedley

Add that they resist pinch flats and burping in a MTB application;


From US national champion Stephen Ettinger (dec 2013 MBA )

"I ride latex tubes and lots of talc. , Ive found I can run this setup at lower pressures than tubeless tires"



"It's not quite like running tubulars , but the set up pretty much eliminates the friction that causes pinch flats, Ive been able to run this setup for two years without any problems. I can't burp a tire if I hit something too fast and hard."

rpenmanparker 

What is "burping a tire"?

rpenmanparker 

No kidding about the beer and wine comparison? That is funny? Craft beer in the states is maybe $4-6. Just guessing. I don't drink it, but that should be in the right range. What I do know is a bottle of wine in a restaurant or bar is STARTING at $30. I know that's not true for the wine in Italy. Just sayin'.

zacster

i didnt know they still made latex tubes. I still have some from 30 years ago in my basement and they're probably still good. As far as patching them, we didn't know that you couldn't patch them, so we did. They were fine. I'll have t go check to see if they are patched.

I guess from the photo they are. 9 patches on this tube. But it doesn't hold air.

And how do you like the assortment of old bike stuff laying around?

rootboy 

If your 30 year old latex tubes are still OK, you are a lucky person.

zacster

Here's a lesson for all the guys. Don't use old latex condoms. After 30 years they'll fall apart in your hands.

rekmeyata

First off you can easily patch latex tubes...well sort of, it does require a bit more work. First get some tubular rim glue like Pastali, next you take an old latex tube and cut some 1" circles not squares, then when you have flat simply lightly buff the tube (like you would normally) take the glue and wipe a thin layer of the glue on both the tube (like gluing a butyl tube, thin layer and an area larger than the patch will cover) and the patch with your finger, place the patch on the tube immediately and press flat.

Secondly, latex tubes have been proven scientifically to use less watts than butyl...but we're only talking about an average of 3 watts less which wouldn't be noticed in regular riding, but in a long race could be the edge of winning or losing.

Third, unlike advertised information from latex tube manufactures they are not more flat resistant than butyl, and stretching a uninflated tube over a broken bottle does not prove they are, when the tube is under pressure they will get flats just like butyl. My experience led me to believe they were actually more fragile than butyl.

4th, latex tubes do ride more comfortable, at 100 psi they feel like butyl does at 75 psi.

5th, you don't need lots of talc, you need some, the Michelin brand I bought came pre-talic'd, there was no more need to add more unless down the road you had to remove the tube than when you get home you can add a bit more talc. Simply put some on your hands, rub your hands together then rub the powder on your tube. Of course some people are allergic to talic so make sure you're not.

6th, they supposedly handle better than butyl because they allow the sidewalls to flex a bit more, sort of akin to what a radial tire does.

7th, they do lose about 20% of their air in 24 hours, however ultralight butyl race tubes (65 gram range) will lose about 5% of theirs in 24 hours so either way your topping off your PSI before every ride.

8th, they are less susceptible to pinch flats, which is a moot point if you have the tires properly inflated anyways.

9th, you have to more careful installing them in clinchers, if you catch the tube accidently between the tire and rim the tube is done for.

Personally I don't like latex, they cost more, don't last as long, and are sort of pain to patch on the road quickly. I use glueless patches because they work for me and I can patch a butyl tube on the side of the road just as fast as can to replace the tube thus I don't have to go home a patch a tube, with latex that won't be true. But my biggest issue with them is the cost, at $15 + a pop to get a tube that only last a couple of seasons if I was lucky is a bit nut, then add the flat repair problem and it's a big no for me. If I was racing and needed every tiny bit of edge I could get then I would use them.