coominya

Riders of racers call their bikes roadies and many assume every other bike design is not suited to the road. They don't even call their bikes racers anymore, yet that is what they are and that is what they are suited for. Road racing on smooth surfaces devoid of railway crossings, cracks, potholes and most importantly vehicular traffic. A flatbar hybrid with road tires is a vastly superior choice for today's suburban roadscape.

Maelochs

Imagine what he might have been able to lift had he worn the proper athletic-style upper-body garment!

Dave Cutter

Yep. And you didn't have to wear spandex like us road bike guys! It all makes sense to me. And mountain cycling is a popular sport you can do with friends on weekends... drinking beer.

Maelochs

This is flatly ridiculous.

First of, a road bike is a bike designed to be ridden on pavement---not just flat, smooth pavement (ever seen the One-Day Classics, where they ride Road Bikes ... on cobblestones?) and not pavement without any impediments. In fact, if you knew anything about the topic upon which you expound, you wouldn't have made this post because ...BIKE RACES ARE HELD ON REAL ROADS. Yeah, there is a track variety ... but the vast majority of cycling races are held on actual roads, with rail crossing, pavement patches, potholes ... and I see you have never heard of Strade Bianche.

As for the rest of your incorrect post ... I have ridden every sort of bike except BMX, and I have done multi-week unsupported tours, multi-week supported tours, and tens of thousands of miles of commuting ... most of it on a diamond-frame bike with drop bars, and the rest on a diamond-frame bike with flat bars.

The idea that anything with drop bars is automatically only for racing is flat ridiculous. Look at the guy in Post #37—is that a “Racer”? It’s got drop bars.

Even further—when you specify “suburban” roadscape, you really miss the mark. If you had said “Urban” I might have at least pertly agreed with you, as most urban environments feature bad pavement, a lot of traffic and traffic control systems, huge pavement irregularities, and generally not much room to maneuver to avoid obstacles.

On the other hand I have commuted in a dense urban environment on flatbar and drop-bar bikes and a full-squish MTB, and I still prefer a drop-bar there—but really strong wheels are a must, and little extra tire volume goes a long way towards protecting the wheels.

Suburban settings tend to feature longer stretches of road with fewer lights, less incoming and egressing traffic, and fewer areas of really bad pavement—at least, according to my fifty years of cycling. In suburban areas, I commute on a skinny-tire drop-bar bike with rear racks, or on a fairly skinny-tire (28-mmx27-inch) drop-bar touring bike with full racks and panniers.

I wouldn’t have any problem riding either of these bikes as daily commuters in any place I have ever seen, including in the downtowns of major cities (though I would put stronger wheels on the skinny-tire bike and run lower pressures.)

Also, in a suburban setting, I hit train tracks, potholes huge cracks in the pavement, sand .... and I don’t have Any problem whatsoever, even running 23-mm tires at 115 psi. I don’t bash curbs like I could with MTB wheels ... but then, I don’t have to. If it works best for YOU, then great. Nothing better than finding the best thing for yourself. Ride On!

However, please be open-minded enough to realize that other people with about as much cycling knowledge and experience as yourself, do Not find your specific preference to be “vastly superior,” or even superior in any way.

In fact, if I were riding in an area where I really Needed the extra strength of a rigid MTB frame, I might have to consider a hardtail with a lockout fork. In my experience, what really gets beat up in tough-terrain commuting are the wheels ... and you can mount any kind of wheel on any frame with any sort of handlebar.

Check out the Mongoose in post #37. Stick a rear rack and panniers on that, and it would be a great urban commuter/utility bike.

Then consider that if you put those same wheels on Any bike, even what you call a “Racer,” it would perform in exactly the same way.

What was your point again?

Aidoneus

Do you know what a bench shirt is? Saying without a shirt in powerlifting circles means without the special canvas or polyester shirts that give a compression rebound off one's chest. The only time I went sans t-shirt at my gym was in the pool and the locker room.

MRT2

Hold up a second, and consider what you are saying. So many varieties of road bikes these days, from lightweight racing machines, to touring models, and a lot of stuff in between. And lots of flat bar hybrids.

I used to ride a flat bar hybrid with road tires, but found the mountain bike geometry and limited hand positions ultimately limiting. I was either too upright, or too hunched over.

I now ride a bike with drop bars and find it a vastly superior choice. Why? The geometry allows me to stretch out and relax on long rides, the 4 to 5 hand positions, and 3 different riding positions (upright on the tops, stretched out on the hoods with hands in a neutral position, and down in the drops to get more aerodynamic) to be more versatile than the 2 hand positions and one riding position the flat bar bike offers.

That said, I don't wish to be dogmatic. Lots of people like flat bars or some variation of a flat bar. YMMV

Maelochs

Come on, do I have to put a smiley emoticon on Every post**********??

No, I had no clue what a powerlifing bench-press shirt is, so thanks for that bit of info. I just thought the post could be interpreted in a comical way, so I did that.

Anyway ... I bet I could bench two pounds 355 times-----not wearing shorts .... and I am well over fifty. (Of course, if anyone noticed I'd get kicked out of the gym.)

Aidoneus

Well I did not mean to be insulting or condescending! I could have said raw benching...to allow even more jokes. Humor aside, I thought a bit of information would not be unwelcome. Especially as many casual lifters may not be aware of something like specialized bench shirts. For an extreme zombie-like (multi-layer canvas, I think) example, see the first 1,000 pound bench lift:
I would estimate that he needed a good 500 pounds to overcome the shirt's resistance enough to get the bar down to his chest.

ckindt

social unrest?

Aidoneus

Sorry, must have went over my head. Guess my reflexes are slowing down...

jefnvk

Considering the whole beginning of this thread was that anyone riding anything other than a drop bar road bike on the road was wrong, I would offer up that being open minded can work in many different ways.

baldilocks

Amen brother.

baldilocks

So did you get the 660 or the 710? I want a pair real bad but I'm waiting to get a new 29 er to put them on. How do they work on technical trails?

trail_monkey

I got 660 cause 710s were out of stock. They work excellent on technical single track! I have run them with an 80mm salsa stem 7 degree rise,a 90 mm ritchey 30 degree rise stem, and currently a 60 mm truvative aka all mountain stem. They handle extremely well on technical stuff with any of those stems. I went in a group ride last fall and a buddy removed his jones bars and put flats on for this single track ride. I left my Jones on. I found them very responsive on turns and drops and see no point in switching back and forth. My Jones bars will satisfy 99 percent of my riding from bikepacking to technical stuff and everything in between. Awesome bars!

Eyedrop

That is not what I said AT ALL. In fact, I think the average Joe commuting to work on pavement and the very occasional gravel ride would usually be better off with some sort of hybrid bike with light tread. For example, the Pinnacle Lithium is an extremely versatile bike. I would be considering that much more than a straight up mountain bike for just commuting.

The problem with commuting on a mountain bike is the sheer lack of efficiency. I live just 4 miles from work, and it literally takes me 8-9 minutes longer to get to work on my modern hard tail MTB vs. my 1980s Giant Cabriolet entry level 35LB road bike that I bought on craigslist for $40. If I take my race bike, I can get there in a blink of an eye. Riding the MTB the next day is almost laughable.

And with such a short commute like many people have, comfort isnt really a factor in the ride. Im more interested in getting there as quickly as possible with the least amount of sweat and fatigue. For that, there is nothing better than a road bike. For me, riding a MTB on the pavement is like having a thorn in my side.

I do understand that an upright riding position is more comfortable that a typical road bike, and people like the "control" that a big MTB has with big tires and a wide handlebar. If the reduced efficiency is worth it to you, than I have no problems with your choice.

However, If I really wanted something to be ultra comfortable on and easy to control, then I would ride a cruiser, not a MTB.

And if I was personally looking for the most comfort over long distances with varying terrain, I would choose a (surprise) touring bike! Unless the terrain truly calls for some heavy duty mud or steep rocky sections of loose dirt, a MTB would be a waste of my time.

LesterOfPuppets

Not bad. Seems a little pricey for Tourney parts. Freewheel instead of freehub is a bit of a bummer also. I'd prefer a nice 1995-ish 24 lb-ish MTB, myself. I'd guess that Lithium weighs about 30 lbs, so quite a chore to carry up the steps.

Get one of these babies on the CL and you're in business!
https://bikepedia.com/QuickBike/BikeS...Eldridge+Grade

badger1

This, + many times over.

Eyedrop

Also, my second job is 24 miles away in the next town over. I know for sure I could get there in an hour or less with my road bike. On the MTB, I would need to set aside atleast 1.5-2hrs to get there with the same level of effort. I would personally also feel more comfortable on the road bike, because of reduced riding time along with having a proper saddle and fit. I think thats where alot of people mess up when it comes to a road bike. A big advantage with MTB is that you can still comfortably ride a MTB with a frame thats too big or small and get away with it. On a road racing bike, the position needs to be dialed in pretty good if you wanna do long distances comfortably. Once I got a proper setup, I can ride the race bike 4-6 hours a day with no comfort issues...

Some of the most versatile and comfortable bikes Ive been on are touring bicycles. They can be fairly light weight, much more efficient, and durability is generally very good. They feature a more upright position than a typical road bike and can carry alot of weight, have rack mounts, etc.... Trying to ride 50-100miles of mostly pavement and hills day after day on a fully loaded MTB would be just ridiculous. I know people that do it too so its possible. Me? No thanks. Ill take the touring bike any day of the week.

LesterOfPuppets

If you wanna ride a long ways on MTB, you definitely need your fit dialed in also. Rigid MTBs make great tourers IMO. I rode 400 miles summer before last, usually about 65 miles a day, and the MTB did great. Approx 50% gravel, 45% paved roads, 5% singletrack.

stoplight

many moons ago I did 315 one time..was a long time goal to pop up three plates. Mission accomplished but my goodness that was heavy!!!! Because of the wear and tear of heavy weights I switched to core exercises, push ups and the like, still do dumbbell work but nothing much over 45lb a side.

Daniel4

Me, it's squats, Deadlifts and dumbbell presses and flys. Squats and Deadlifts improve my climbing- you learn to use your glutes too. I wear a cycling jersey at the gym because it's still easy to unzip when I'm all sweaty. Pulling a sweaty t-shirt off your back is really hard.

jefnvk

So, those following six paragraphs are NOT you telling others why their decision is wrong, and yours is right?

Odd, because I regularly ride a 7.8 mile route on both my old Schwinn Le Tour, and my MTB, and while the Schwinn is undeniable faster, the difference is 1:30 between the fastest times on both. The MTB is faster than my Miyata touring bike, again by a bit over a minute, but still negligible. Considering my rides can vary more than that just based on traffic, hardly a negligible difference.

I think you'll find plenty of people who don't want to sacrifice comfort for your blistering speed. As to the second part, again you started a whole thread questioning why they don't see things your way, meaning you do car.

I don't care about recumbent bikes, so I don't start threads questioning why anyone would want one. I do know a few people here would tell us both were silly for not using one of their contraptions, though.

Head on over to the touring forum, and I think you'll find the only agreeable definition of a "touring" bike is one that you are comfortable on and can carry you and required gear on an overnight trip. That may well be drop bars, it may well be flat bars, and likely it is something else. It may be a road bike frame, it may be a MTB frame, the Dutch think it means city bikes, some can't imagine anything but a fat tire.

Miele Man

You wouldn't be saying that if you rode my route today.

Paved roads with patches of pavement missing that the MTB tires went over with no problem. My bike today was a rigid MTB with 2.125" x 26" tires with knobs. Decided to take a shortcut through the park and discovered that the creek had risen and flooded many sections of the trail. That water had frozen and again the MTB tires without studs had no problems handling those icy sections even though the pressure ijn the tires was about 50psi.

When I tour in Norther Ontario, Canada I often use my MTB with dropbar. I can take wide knobby tires (2.125") and use them on the fire./logging/mining roads that can be quite rough, steep in sections and/or sandy in others. If my tour consists of a lot of miles on pavement I can switch the tires to 1.5" slicks. Let's see, 2.125" = @50.5mm and 1.5" = @37mm. That's quite a variation of tire sizes on one frame.

In winter when I'm commuting on the MTB I don't have to worry if it snows a few inches during the day. Oh, I nearly forgot; Wide MTB tires are far less likely to get caught in a storm grate or railway/streetcar/trolley track.

In short, again, MTBs are very versatile and that's why so many people like them for commuting. Unless you're a real fitness rider on a dropbar bike an MTB is not that much slower over the average commuting distances of MOST people.

Ride what you like but don't tell people their choice of bike is wrong.

Cheers

Maelochs

The comfort factor for casual riders is often a function of leg and core strength. For shorter rides on a flat-bar/fat seat bike, casual riders can sit on the saddle like it is a seat, and use their legs to spin the pedals. Try that on a road bike and Something will hurt.

Having ridden many types of bikes I can say that fat-tire MTBs take a noticeably greater effort, whether or not the time difference over some distance is significant to any individual rider. For a casual rider with no serious road-bike experience, the greater effort doesn't exist---no comparison possible. For those riders, the comfort of being able to sit on the seat with full weight is probably the deciding factor, whether they define it that closely or not.

Personally, I always begrudged the extra effort fat tires absorb (even pumped up pretty hard.) But if I was not used to easy-rolling road-bike tires, I wouldn't have known ... and after the first hundred yards or so, it is just bike-riding, and there is more to do than worry about the precise energy expenditure per foot traveled.

One thing mentioned above though ... for serious cycling commuters (as opposed to the people riding because of DUIs, with the seat six inches too low, and probably a brown-bagged beer in a cup-holder) ....

I'd say that it isn't that comfort isn't a factor, but that a well-adjusted road bike with a reasonably fit rider is as comfortable (for a reasonably fit rider) as any other kind of bike.

Most MTBs (IMO) are sold to people who don't know much or care much about cycling, and just want a bike. MTBs, cruisers, hybrids ... anything that looks like grandpa's old bike and has a plush seat is just about as good as the next one. Once the customer finds a bike that looks like "a bike," cost is probably more a deciding factor than anything else. So, cheap Big-box-style MTBs with cheap and outdated components, suspension forks produced by a company which also makes ballpoint pens, flashlights, and barbeque grills ... are the most prevalent type of bike.

(Lol ... just occurred to me ... I have a redneck friend (but he's one of the good ones (for real)) who bought a bike. He bought s simple cruiser, no suspension, no frills, put a beer-holder and a Bluetooth speaker on it, so he could take a relaxing tour of the neighborhood in the evenings. He knows nothing about bikes, but a lot of about construction and machinery ... so he could see what was garbage-cheap and could figure out what he needed to get the job done.

I think most people who don't think that much, buy cheap and cheesy MTBs ... and probably don't even know their cables have stretched, because they never really figured out how to use the gears ... or else, just left it in whatever gear made the least noise when the derailleurs got all out of adjustment.

Once you get above the "casual" level, it seems that people who buy either MTBs or road bikes, have pretty much of a clue what the bikes do, and how, and how to use them, and they buy the bike for the type of riding they plan to do.

I-Like-To-Bike

The only bicycles I ever saw in use in the 50's or the 60's were middle/heavy weight cruisers or English or American 3 speed "racers." Never saw a derailleur, let alone a bike with drop bars in use until the 70's.