gazman22

Bought this bike today. Paint is very good less a few chips and spots of rust. Nice fade paint job to the stays. Very understated "C" mini-head badge. Full Campy with Racing triple and Chorus brakes less the dura ace headset and Phil hubs. Serial number is 7796. Frame is unusual mix of lugged BB, lugged and fillet brazed seat/top tube, and fully fillet brazed at the head tube. No stickers for tubing. Cooper dropouts.

I am curious about any insights anyone can provide- year, did Cooper build eclectic group sets like this or just sell frames? Should clean up nicely. Look forward to riding it.

Thanks,

Gary

Steel Charlie

Looks like something that needs recycling. Send it to me and I'll dispose of it for you. No charge.

juvela

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great find!

iirc that model of Cinelli investment cast crown launched in '74

you may discover seat binder to be fractional


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3alarmer 

...all the ones I've seen here, near the San Francisco bay area, were sold at Bicycle Odyssey in Sausalito. They've all had a variety of components, on them, some high end, some mid level. So I presume they were sold as frames originally. Tony Tom was the guy taking the orders and building them up for customers, but he's passed away. That's about all I can offer as information.

I've had three or four of them here, from different decades, and they all ride nicely.

gazman22

Thanks for the information. Have you seen any that had the combination of lugged and fillet brazed as shown above? And any knowledge on the dropouts? Would be surprised if he actually cast his own dropouts…

John E

That strange lug combination may have resulted from the small frame size and short head tube. That doesn't explain the seat cluster -- bottom bracket difference, though.

3alarmer 

...these are typical of the construction details, and some changes over the years, on what I've seen. (Which is not a large number of them.)
The green one is the oldest of the three, with the red frame with newer head badge the most recent in construction. Maybe 15-20 years in range.

Your badging is of the earlier, diamond variation. Eventually, I think they went to just a "C", with rainbow stripes.

As mentioned above by someone, this seems like a pretty small frame. So maybe the custom construction needed something that a standard head lug wouldn't fit ?

machinist42

There's a FB Group started by Ron Cooper's son where you may find further information or not. Some of the opinions there are ill-informed, especially regarding serial numbers. Cooper used a 3 (three) digit serial in his early years and when he reached 999 every three or four years he'd simply start over at 001. Later there could be no serial or in your case a 4 digit? (Is there a corresponding number on the underside of the BB shell?)

He used whichever tubing was appropriate or at hand. You may want to scrutinize the tubes for stampings and check the steerer for "ridges?" Found a "Super Vitus" stamping on the inside of the fork's blades on our Cooper, which probably is from the early '70s. The stampings can be very faint and well nigh indiscernible to the naked eye.

Cooper made great bike frames freehand and don't think he gave a rat's ass about what his customers hung on it. There is abundant information about him out there if you are interested, and he was interesting.

Classic Rendezvous is another source of information for you, and though your bike is probably from the 90s, he is considered a consummate KOF and hence mention of his later work is entirely "On-Topic." Some folks there really know their stuff.

Congratulations on your acquisition!

MooneyBloke

You also might try calling Peter Mooney at Belmont Wheelworks. As I recall he's there on Wednesday and Sundays, and he learned his frame building trade under Ron, and maybe he might be able to provide some enlightenment.

3alarmer 

.
...there are a lot of different pictures of a variety of Ron Cooper frames/bikes in this long running thread.

bikingshearer 

Great score, and welcome to the fraternity. I have no doubt it will ride like a champ.

To my eye, the top and down tubes look oversized, which might explain the fillet brazing. I also note that there is what looks like thin lugs around the very top and very bottom of the head tube, but they sort of disappear at the rear of the "lug." I have no idea what it means, but it's a cool detail.

My understanding is that Cooper mixed and matched tubes as he saw fit. My 1982ish one also has no tubing sticker. I'd be interested to know what tubes he used, more out of curiosity than anything else - I figure if it was good enough for Ron Cooper to build with it, it's good enough for me to ride it.

I see yours has the block letter down tube graphics rather than the thin-lettered script decals that were sometime used. Since I prefer the block lettering, that's a plus as far as I'm concerned. Yours also has some standard Ron Cooper details. Every Cooper I've seen had that seat cluster arrangement. The little diamond "C" on the head tube was one of several common motifs; he also used the "Cooper" decal on your seat tube as a head tube graphic and also a different decal that said "Cooper" on the head tube with diagonal rainbow stripes (that's what mine has). He also sometimes had the little "C" embedded in the windows of one or more headtube lugs. The seat tube could have either of the aforementioned decals facing front, the diamond "C" that is on your head tube, or "Cooper" or "Ron Cooper" decals running up and down the sides with or without rainbow rings above and below the decal, The one constant in the graphics department was "Ron Cooper" on the downtube - everything else could shift among a small set of his standard items, making each frame's graphics at the same unique and recognizable.

Ron Cooper was a one-man operation (with the occasional helper/apprentice). For a top-drawer British racer, I bet he could be persuaded to put an entire bike together, but he mostly sold frames, not complete bikes.

gazman22

Thanks! All helpful information. Yes, the serial number is faintly stamped on the BB, legible only after a good cleaning. I will search the tubing for stampings.

by the way, what does KOF stand for?

gazman22

Thanks! I will put the calipers on the tubes to see if they are indeed oversize. Regarding the head tube, I have seen this style before with the step out at the top and bottom. I believe on this frame it is the fillet weld that is then merging into the step of the head tube. Nicely executed and finished by Mr. Cooper.

juvela

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frame's ends set be Columbus

if you were able to meet their minimums they would make up sets with whatever name you chose

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gazman22

Thanks. That explains that...This bike really is a bit eclectic all around. Which I like.

machinist42

In looking for Tubing Markings, shining a very bright light parallel to the tubing may highlight any faint stampings.

Here's what the Super Vitus stamping on the fork blade of our Cooper looks like lit up like that:



(Like to think Cooper positioned the tang deliberately so as to spell out "SUPER US" as this was probably a Bikeology Bike built for the US market.)

And here is what a Columbus Marking looks like as seen on the underside of the downtube of our Carabela Profesional.



Good Luck on finding tubing markings!

From the Classic Rendezvous "About" page:

"Description
A discussion group designed to complement the Classic Rendezvous web site and the world wide community it has engendered. For the enjoyment and preservation of vintage lightweight racing, touring and refined bicycles of the period about 1900 until 1987. (+ "Keeper of the Flame" bikes!)"

davester

My neighbor has a 1994 Ron Cooper that she bought new from Tony at Bicycle Odyssey. It also has the lugless head tube construction that she says Ron did for really small frames. It is pretty much identical to the OP's bike, complete with the brazed "C" on the head tube and classic Ron Cooper seat cluster. Here's a photo of it hanging in her garage. She's no longer riding it so would be interested in selling it if anyone is interested.


Lenie's Ron Cooper

gazman22

Thanks. Two similar Coopers in Berkeley now!