What does the plow tip on Kool Stop cantilever brake pads do?
12-09-23, 06:32 PM
#1
Car free since 2018
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 685
Bikes: Mostly japanese ones
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 259 Post(s)
Liked 269 Times
in
134 Posts
What does the plow tip on Kool Stop cantilever brake pads do?
What is it for exactly?
12-09-23, 06:36 PM
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 13,046
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
Mentioned: 267 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4512 Post(s)
Liked 6,387 Times
in
3,672 Posts
12-09-23, 07:09 PM
#4
Edumacator
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Goose Creek, SC
Posts: 6,809
Bikes: '87 Crestdale, '87 Basso Gap, '92 Rossin Performance EL-OS, 1990 VanTuyl, 1980s Losa, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 1987 PX10, etc...
Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2440 Post(s)
Liked 3,130 Times
in
1,969 Posts
I thought it was to make toe out easier to adjust...
__________________
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
Likes For jdawginsc:
12-09-23, 08:08 PM
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 13,046
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
Mentioned: 267 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4512 Post(s)
Liked 6,387 Times
in
3,672 Posts
12-09-23, 10:35 PM
#6
Crawlin' up, flyin' down
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Democratic Peoples' Republic of Berkeley
Posts: 5,658
Bikes: 1967 Paramount; 1982-ish Ron Cooper; 1978 Eisentraut "A"; two mid-1960s Cinelli Speciale Corsas; and others in various stages of non-rideability.
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1027 Post(s)
Liked 2,531 Times
in
1,059 Posts
12-10-23, 07:40 AM
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Right where I'm supposed to be
Posts: 1,634
Bikes: Franklin Frames Custom, Rivendell Bombadil
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 116 Post(s)
Liked 209 Times
in
127 Posts
Not much, and not necessary. I chop the trailing end of smooth post Eagle Claw canti pads, then file the exposed metal frame. Now I have road sized pads that clear the fork blades and stays. There's zero benefit to long pads. Canti pads used to be all road sized, but somewhere in the 80's with the mtb craze someone decided it was a good idea to make them longer and offset. So now your brakes wouldn't open all the way. How silly. I was curious if the Eagle Claws could be shortened and to my surprise the inner metal frame only went to about the last notch in the pad. All that was needed was some utility shears to cut off the rubber end, and then a touch of filing to clear the frame and smooth off the chopped end.
12-10-23, 01:14 PM
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 13,046
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
Mentioned: 267 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4512 Post(s)
Liked 6,387 Times
in
3,672 Posts
Not much, and not necessary. I chop the trailing end of smooth post Eagle Claw canti pads, then file the exposed metal frame. Now I have road sized pads that clear the fork blades and stays. There's zero benefit to long pads. Canti pads used to be all road sized, but somewhere in the 80's with the mtb craze someone decided it was a good idea to make them longer and offset. So now your brakes wouldn't open all the way. How silly. I was curious if the Eagle Claws could be shortened and to my surprise the inner metal frame only went to about the last notch in the pad. All that was needed was some utility shears to cut off the rubber end, and then a touch of filing to clear the frame and smooth off the chopped end.
many early canti's were longer for tandems and French touring in the mountains when most brakes were poor at best.
Mafac tandem/touring canti's have 5 dots on the pads and a longer arm for more leverage to make it safer down some of the most dangerous bicycle traveled mountains on the planet.
They were adopted by early MTB's for the same reason, coming down repack melted the brakes of the day and the tandem canti's were the answer at the time.
Likes For merziac:
12-10-23, 03:22 PM
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Right where I'm supposed to be
Posts: 1,634
Bikes: Franklin Frames Custom, Rivendell Bombadil
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 116 Post(s)
Liked 209 Times
in
127 Posts
Incorrect, absolutely wrong,
many early canti's were longer for tandems and French touring in the mountains when most brakes were poor at best.
Mafac tandem/touring canti's have 5 dots on the pads and a longer arm for more leverage to make it safer down some of the most dangerous bicycle traveled mountains on the planet.
They were adopted by early MTB's for the same reason, coming down repack melted the brakes of the day and the tandem canti's were the answer at the time.
many early canti's were longer for tandems and French touring in the mountains when most brakes were poor at best.
Mafac tandem/touring canti's have 5 dots on the pads and a longer arm for more leverage to make it safer down some of the most dangerous bicycle traveled mountains on the planet.
They were adopted by early MTB's for the same reason, coming down repack melted the brakes of the day and the tandem canti's were the answer at the time.
Now you're talking about issues with Mafac cantilevers, which are anything but a "standard" of effective cantilevers. The irony is that the Mafac pads for canti's I see have 4 dots and are centered, and of road size. You offer nothing about Kool Stop pads.
My first cantilever were Shimano BR-MC70 on a 1983 Stumpjumper and it had centered, average road sized brake pads. So do the two pairs of SunTour XC Pro canti's I bought in the late 90's. It's only when I went to get replacements did I find the longer and offset shape to the pads. The stock pads worked just fine, so I modified the long KS pads to be of the original size that came with the brake originally. Not exactly earth shattering or provocative... sheesh.
What dangers some wonky French brakes may have had have zero relevance here.
12-10-23, 04:17 PM
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 13,046
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
Mentioned: 267 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4512 Post(s)
Liked 6,387 Times
in
3,672 Posts
Nice try, but absolutely wrong" my butt. We're talking about Kool Stop Cantilever brake pads and the "tip" here.
Now you're talking about issues with Mafac cantilevers, which are anything but a "standard" of effective cantilevers. The irony is that the Mafac pads for canti's I see have 4 dots and are centered, and of road size. You offer nothing about Kool Stop pads.
My first cantilever were Shimano BR-MC70 on a 1983 Stumpjumper and it had centered, average road sized brake pads. So do the two pairs of SunTour XC Pro canti's I bought in the late 90's. It's only when I went to get replacements did I find the longer and offset shape to the pads. The stock pads worked just fine, so I modified the long KS pads to be of the original size that came with the brake originally. Not exactly earth shattering or provocative... sheesh.
What dangers some wonky French brakes may have had have zero relevance here.
Now you're talking about issues with Mafac cantilevers, which are anything but a "standard" of effective cantilevers. The irony is that the Mafac pads for canti's I see have 4 dots and are centered, and of road size. You offer nothing about Kool Stop pads.
My first cantilever were Shimano BR-MC70 on a 1983 Stumpjumper and it had centered, average road sized brake pads. So do the two pairs of SunTour XC Pro canti's I bought in the late 90's. It's only when I went to get replacements did I find the longer and offset shape to the pads. The stock pads worked just fine, so I modified the long KS pads to be of the original size that came with the brake originally. Not exactly earth shattering or provocative... sheesh.
What dangers some wonky French brakes may have had have zero relevance here.
They came on the very first Stumpy's and Ritchey's, most everybody here "butt" you knows that and yes they were quickly abandoned "butt" not before learning from them what was needed to replace them.
We're talking about whatever I say we're talking about and its all about you picking and choosing when you don't know what you're talking about, you don't even address the original question about what the plow is for.
We're talking about brakes and effectiveness, the Mafacs were the best at the time as all brakes were poor, way back in the day and at the beginning of the MTB era.
You stated "There's zero benefit to long pads. Canti pads used to be all road sized and somewhere in the 80's with the mtb craze someone decided it was a good idea to make them longer and offset".
They had been longer for a long time already, since the 50's reportedly.
12-10-23, 04:18 PM
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 2,701
Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1136 Post(s)
Liked 650 Times
in
336 Posts
Garthr Under hard braking the pads do deflect and the full length of the longer pads make contact with the rim, providing more surface area for friction and dissipation of heat buildup. You might not perceive this but there is a reason they were designed this way, especially for long descents or technical trails.
I have to say that MAFAC cantilever brakes work quite well for me, just as well as any more modern Shimano or Dia Compe brake. Not sure why you consider them inferior.
Also, I believe merziac was bringing up the MAFAC 5 dot tandem pads to counter your statement that long pads are not beneficial. Not related to the Kool Stop fin.
I have to say that MAFAC cantilever brakes work quite well for me, just as well as any more modern Shimano or Dia Compe brake. Not sure why you consider them inferior.
Also, I believe merziac was bringing up the MAFAC 5 dot tandem pads to counter your statement that long pads are not beneficial. Not related to the Kool Stop fin.
Likes For TenGrainBread:
12-10-23, 04:56 PM
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Right where I'm supposed to be
Posts: 1,634
Bikes: Franklin Frames Custom, Rivendell Bombadil
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 116 Post(s)
Liked 209 Times
in
127 Posts
Yeah, your "butt" is still wrong, the irony is that you don't know the Mafac tandem 5 dots were the standard issue MTB brakes at the beginning, sheesh.
They came on the very first Stumpy's and Ritchey's, most everybody here "butt" you knows that and yes they were quickly abandoned "butt" not before learning from them what was needed to replace them.
We're talking about whatever I say we're talking about and its all about you picking and choosing when you don't know what you're talking about, you don't even address the original question about what the plow is for.
We're talking about brakes and effectiveness, the Mafacs were the best at the time as all brakes were poor, way back in the day and at the beginning of the MTB era.
You stated "There's zero benefit to long pads. Canti pads used to be all road sized and somewhere in the 80's with the mtb craze someone decided it was a good idea to make them longer and offset".
They had been longer for a long time already, since the 50's reportedly.
They came on the very first Stumpy's and Ritchey's, most everybody here "butt" you knows that and yes they were quickly abandoned "butt" not before learning from them what was needed to replace them.
We're talking about whatever I say we're talking about and its all about you picking and choosing when you don't know what you're talking about, you don't even address the original question about what the plow is for.
We're talking about brakes and effectiveness, the Mafacs were the best at the time as all brakes were poor, way back in the day and at the beginning of the MTB era.
You stated "There's zero benefit to long pads. Canti pads used to be all road sized and somewhere in the 80's with the mtb craze someone decided it was a good idea to make them longer and offset".
They had been longer for a long time already, since the 50's reportedly.
Well this is going nowhere but in circles. You know, this is the problem with trying communicate in such a primitive way, and nobody really ever knows what the other is saying and how they mean it. Hell, even face to face it's not much different. I can continue the charade of "who knows more of this, that and the other" and all that jazz, and so effing what ? Nothing good ever comes of it, just more of the same going round and round as Hell on Wheels. King of the Jungle in thine own mind, with a welt on thine head from thine own hand.
12-10-23, 05:21 PM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 13,046
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
Mentioned: 267 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4512 Post(s)
Liked 6,387 Times
in
3,672 Posts
Well this is going nowhere but in circles. You know, this is the problem with trying communicate in such a primitive way, and nobody really ever knows what the other is saying and how they mean it. Hell, even face to face it's not much different. I can continue the charade of "who knows more of this, that and the other" and all that jazz, and so effing what ? Nothing good ever comes of it, just more of the same going round and round as Hell on Wheels. King of the Jungle in thine own mind, with a welt on thine head from thine own hand.
12-10-23, 05:33 PM
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 5,794
Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3513 Post(s)
Liked 2,927 Times
in
1,776 Posts
The Koolstops I got to replace my DA pads also have those dopey lips. They went to the spare parts pile and I got Swiss Stop pads instead.
12-10-23, 06:50 PM
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Right where I'm supposed to be
Posts: 1,634
Bikes: Franklin Frames Custom, Rivendell Bombadil
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 116 Post(s)
Liked 209 Times
in
127 Posts
Well, because you're being such a butt head ......... I'll hammer on your head for awhile longer.
Yeah I say so, and I say you're still wrong
Do you even have any experience with KS pads ?
If not, seeing it has no bearing on KS pad tips, why did you bring it up ?
I'm aware Mafac's were standard on the first Stumpy's, and so what ?
The tip is a KS thing, no other mfr does it. Nor do all canti mfrs use offset or elongated pads(Dia Comple 988, TRP/Tektro, SwissStop pads). So it's not a universally agreed upon principle. I get the sales pitch, as I said, I just don't buy it from my experience using them and chopping the ends off. Either I stop or I don't. Obviously I did stop as I'm still here to talk about it. Cross racers preferred smaller pads also.
Pads had been longer since the 50's ?
Longer than what ?
Show us proof, give us all mfr data, model names and dimensions of every brake and pad made for all time, and all performance data of braking in all conditions for all time of each and every rider. Show me, show us all the "Holy Grail" of brakes and pads and performance for all time, since you're so keen on giving everyone a history lesson. Be accurate and be honest now .....
My oh-pining is based on my actual experiences with KS pads. You have no experience with my experience, so your rebuttal to what you never experienced is a lie. Your statement about when the pads got longer and why is conjecture. Do you have direct experience/knowledge with said mfrs ?
Do you have it in writing, show us the documentation and performance data for every possible known and unknown rider, time and condition one has or may ever experience for all time, infinitum ?
I await such "proof" as I wait under the Christmas Tree for one glance of Santa
Yeah I say so, and I say you're still wrong
Do you even have any experience with KS pads ?
If not, seeing it has no bearing on KS pad tips, why did you bring it up ?
I'm aware Mafac's were standard on the first Stumpy's, and so what ?
The tip is a KS thing, no other mfr does it. Nor do all canti mfrs use offset or elongated pads(Dia Comple 988, TRP/Tektro, SwissStop pads). So it's not a universally agreed upon principle. I get the sales pitch, as I said, I just don't buy it from my experience using them and chopping the ends off. Either I stop or I don't. Obviously I did stop as I'm still here to talk about it. Cross racers preferred smaller pads also.
Pads had been longer since the 50's ?
Longer than what ?
Show us proof, give us all mfr data, model names and dimensions of every brake and pad made for all time, and all performance data of braking in all conditions for all time of each and every rider. Show me, show us all the "Holy Grail" of brakes and pads and performance for all time, since you're so keen on giving everyone a history lesson. Be accurate and be honest now .....
My oh-pining is based on my actual experiences with KS pads. You have no experience with my experience, so your rebuttal to what you never experienced is a lie. Your statement about when the pads got longer and why is conjecture. Do you have direct experience/knowledge with said mfrs ?
Do you have it in writing, show us the documentation and performance data for every possible known and unknown rider, time and condition one has or may ever experience for all time, infinitum ?
I await such "proof" as I wait under the Christmas Tree for one glance of Santa
12-10-23, 07:18 PM
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,159
Mentioned: 481 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3811 Post(s)
Liked 6,711 Times
in
2,613 Posts
Perhaps you should ask Kool Stop? https://koolstop.com/
12-10-23, 09:53 PM
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 13,046
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
Mentioned: 267 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4512 Post(s)
Liked 6,387 Times
in
3,672 Posts
Well, because you're being such a butt head ......... I'll hammer on your head for awhile longer.
Yeah I say so, and I say you're still wrong
Do you even have any experience with KS pads ?
If not, seeing it has no bearing on KS pad tips, why did you bring it up ?
I'm aware Mafac's were standard on the first Stumpy's, and so what ?
The tip is a KS thing, no other mfr does it. Nor do all canti mfrs use offset or elongated pads(Dia Comple 988, TRP/Tektro, SwissStop pads). So it's not a universally agreed upon principle. I get the sales pitch, as I said, I just don't buy it from my experience using them and chopping the ends off. Either I stop or I don't. Obviously I did stop as I'm still here to talk about it. Cross racers preferred smaller pads also.
Pads had been longer since the 50's ?
Longer than what ?
Show us proof, give us all mfr data, model names and dimensions of every brake and pad made for all time, and all performance data of braking in all conditions for all time of each and every rider. Show me, show us all the "Holy Grail" of brakes and pads and performance for all time, since you're so keen on giving everyone a history lesson. Be accurate and be honest now .....
My oh-pining is based on my actual experiences with KS pads. You have no experience with my experience, so your rebuttal to what you never experienced is a lie. Your statement about when the pads got longer and why is conjecture. Do you have direct experience/knowledge with said mfrs ?
Do you have it in writing, show us the documentation and performance data for every possible known and unknown rider, time and condition one has or may ever experience for all time, infinitum ?
I await such "proof" as I wait under the Christmas Tree for one glance of Santa
Yeah I say so, and I say you're still wrong
Do you even have any experience with KS pads ?
If not, seeing it has no bearing on KS pad tips, why did you bring it up ?
I'm aware Mafac's were standard on the first Stumpy's, and so what ?
The tip is a KS thing, no other mfr does it. Nor do all canti mfrs use offset or elongated pads(Dia Comple 988, TRP/Tektro, SwissStop pads). So it's not a universally agreed upon principle. I get the sales pitch, as I said, I just don't buy it from my experience using them and chopping the ends off. Either I stop or I don't. Obviously I did stop as I'm still here to talk about it. Cross racers preferred smaller pads also.
Pads had been longer since the 50's ?
Longer than what ?
Show us proof, give us all mfr data, model names and dimensions of every brake and pad made for all time, and all performance data of braking in all conditions for all time of each and every rider. Show me, show us all the "Holy Grail" of brakes and pads and performance for all time, since you're so keen on giving everyone a history lesson. Be accurate and be honest now .....
My oh-pining is based on my actual experiences with KS pads. You have no experience with my experience, so your rebuttal to what you never experienced is a lie. Your statement about when the pads got longer and why is conjecture. Do you have direct experience/knowledge with said mfrs ?
Do you have it in writing, show us the documentation and performance data for every possible known and unknown rider, time and condition one has or may ever experience for all time, infinitum ?
I await such "proof" as I wait under the Christmas Tree for one glance of Santa
12-10-23, 10:19 PM
#19
Car free since 2018
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 685
Bikes: Mostly japanese ones
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 259 Post(s)
Liked 269 Times
in
134 Posts
Perhaps you should ask Kool Stop? https://koolstop.com/
I just sent an email and I don't know if they'll reply but if they do I'll post their answer here.
12-11-23, 12:27 AM
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 1,436
Bikes: You had me at rusty and Italian!!
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 566 Post(s)
Liked 1,052 Times
in
545 Posts
rgvg I’m fairly certain KS will reply with the same answers given in the first few replies in this thread.
12-11-23, 10:22 AM
#21
Newbie
Join Date: Dec 2023
Location: Western Riverside county, Southern California
Posts: 31
Bikes: 07 Raleigh supercourse, 04 Specialized epic MB, Surly 1x1, Recycled Recumbents Mach 2, 63 jc Higgins racer single speed, early 60’s Armstrong roadster, KHS tandem electric conversion, GT mb electric city bike conversion.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 21 Times
in
14 Posts
Wow! Glad I just joined this forum. I thought this C&V thread was an example of friendly people being civil, “BUTT” this? Check please!
Likes For Chain smoker:
12-11-23, 10:52 AM
#22
only here for the "LIKES"
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: squirrel cage of anxiety and delusion
Posts: 480
Mentioned: 143 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1643 Post(s)
Liked 2,240 Times
in
1,052 Posts
What does the plow tip on Kool Stop cantilever brake pads do?
What is it for exactly?
What is it for exactly?
random pics found in a quick internet search
Likes For hazetguy:
Likes For rgvg:
12-11-23, 11:14 AM
#24
Pedal to the medal
I'm with Chain smoker here. Ya'll need to behave. It's okay to disagree about something, but name calling and rudeness don't belong on this forum. Take a chill pill.
12-11-23, 11:59 AM
#25
Bike Butcher of Portland
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 11,639
Bikes: It's complicated.
Mentioned: 1299 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4682 Post(s)
Liked 5,802 Times
in
2,286 Posts
Rather than opinions, let's look at brake pad length from an engineering perspective, shall we?
Here's the classic free body diagram for friction that I learned as a freshman in high school.
Does anybody see a variable representing area? Nope. So, at first glance you'd have to agree that there should be no differene in braking between, say 4 dot and 5 dot MAFAC pads. The 5 dots will wear longer, however.
This assumes the the coefficient of friction is constant. Anybody who races cars or motorcycles knows about the dreaded brake fade, where the brakes get so hot as to diminish effectiveness.
Now I'm switching to my opinion, which is worth what you're paying for it.
My guess is that in typical usage, the area of a bicycle brake pad has little to do with stopping power, with the aforementioned benefit that bigger pad areas wear longer, since the increased area of contact decreases the pressure between the pad and rim (pressure = force/area).
In severe usage of bicycle brakes, temperatures can get pretty warm. Long ago I had a double blow out on a tandem down a steep paved road with just cantilever brakes. When I removed the wheel off I burned my hand! I don't recall feeling a significant decrease in braking power prior to the blow outs, but I'll allow for some fade to have occured.
It's too bad I didn't think to ask the question about brake fade on bicycles when @RustyJames set up the Koolstop factory tour (they're in Lake Oswego, Oregon, which is near me). They've got a lot of in-house testing equipment. Maybe someone can find some data online, my quick check didn't reveal anything useful. Most of what I can find is about disk brakes, which can run much hotter than rim brakes.
Here's the classic free body diagram for friction that I learned as a freshman in high school.
Does anybody see a variable representing area? Nope. So, at first glance you'd have to agree that there should be no differene in braking between, say 4 dot and 5 dot MAFAC pads. The 5 dots will wear longer, however.
This assumes the the coefficient of friction is constant. Anybody who races cars or motorcycles knows about the dreaded brake fade, where the brakes get so hot as to diminish effectiveness.
Now I'm switching to my opinion, which is worth what you're paying for it.
My guess is that in typical usage, the area of a bicycle brake pad has little to do with stopping power, with the aforementioned benefit that bigger pad areas wear longer, since the increased area of contact decreases the pressure between the pad and rim (pressure = force/area).
In severe usage of bicycle brakes, temperatures can get pretty warm. Long ago I had a double blow out on a tandem down a steep paved road with just cantilever brakes. When I removed the wheel off I burned my hand! I don't recall feeling a significant decrease in braking power prior to the blow outs, but I'll allow for some fade to have occured.
It's too bad I didn't think to ask the question about brake fade on bicycles when @RustyJames set up the Koolstop factory tour (they're in Lake Oswego, Oregon, which is near me). They've got a lot of in-house testing equipment. Maybe someone can find some data online, my quick check didn't reveal anything useful. Most of what I can find is about disk brakes, which can run much hotter than rim brakes.
__________________
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.