wolfchild

Not just bicycles but thousands of other products too...China is the largest producer of EV batteries. Does that mean that anybody who drives an environmentally friendly Tesla EV vehicle or an electric assisted bike is supporting communism ??

Rolla

I'll try to clarify this for you:

• Immutable means non-changeable.
• You replied to VegasJen , "you will act on your principles as long as it's not too expensive...Which means that they are not really principles."
• So by your reasoning, because VegasJen can't afford to buy a U.S. helmet, he/she doesn't really hold the principle of buying American products, because according to you, introducing a condition or an exception to a principle changes it to something other than a principle.
• This suggests that in order to remain a principle, that principle must be unchangeable, or immutable.
• This is absurd.
• Just as with a rule or a law, just because they may contain conditions and/or exceptions doesn't change them to something else, or negate them. They still remain principles (or rules, or laws) regardless, and their practitioner still possesses that principle.

Carry on as I'm sure you will, but I'm all done here.

drlogik 

On a side note, I recently bought a very expensive ski helmet, my first. It's beautifully made, truly far above other helmets on the market and the reviews parallel my admiration. Funny, there's no country of origin on the box, nor the paperwork.

Intrigued I just had to find out where it was made so I started to peel back the Velcro inserts and what do you think I found? In Microfiche-sized print, there it was, "Made in China". So small, tucked in a place that only careful inspection would it be found. I returned the helmet to to the brick and mortar store that I bought online from. When the guy asked why I was returning it, I was honest, "it's made in China". He smiled and processed my return.

Unfortunately, China can and does make VERY high quality goods (when they want to), and for some of those goods, you do actually pay a lot of money for them. Had that helmet been made in Italy, the USA or any other western nation, heck even Vietnam, it would have been double the price. Kudo's to China for the quality, but I just can't.....support that regime.

BTW, it was an American company's helmet that was made in China. Very disconcerting.


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Koyote

I never argued that, even by implication. Though you seem to have made an inference based in misunderstanding. At any rate, you’re correct. Nothing more to gain here.

VegasJen

For one, there isn't any infrastructure, so that part, yes. But the other part is that China has made deals with these companies to bring manufacturing over there. But it's a "deal with the devil" kind of thing. They get ownership of the plants, they have access to the technology and there is virtually no protection for the manufacturers. And companies are doing this because China is funding a lot of the costs to relocate and ramp up on the front end, knowing full well they reap the benefits on the back end. Not only do they gain the manufacturing and technology infrastructure they could never build on their own, but they've weakened our ability to compete in the global market and as a global power at the same time. What a deal! If I could strengthen my position and weaken my enemy at the same time, you bet your butt I would do the exact same thing. I don't even fault the ChiComs for doing what they're doing. It's the nature of things. Mosquitoes bite, bees sting, communists steal. But I don't have to be a willing participant in it.
OK, maybe I was off. It's been a while. Maybe it was $3.65/hr. And I'm not 55... yet. But I am on the wrong side of 50. And unemployed college student = second career.
I would support my LBS when I have the opportunity. I currently live in a small community that has no LBS, although when I go into Vegas I try to shop local when I can. But it doesn't change the fact that money I spend on products made in China help them fund their aggression towards their neighbors, steal our technology and corner manufacturing.
Same here. I totally get these high end products offered by German and Italian manufacturers, but why can they not also have a budget line?
"she", and thank you.

As for trade, I am all for trading with other nations that are fair trading partners. The Chinese have proven themselves time and again to not only be unfair trading partners, but have malevolent intent for us and their neighbors. But make no mistake, I hold no ill will against the Chinese people. They are as much victims here as anybody. It's all about the CCP and their political-military complex. (Ya, I remember Tiennamin Square)

VegasJen

But you did assert that my desire was a principle, which I never stated. I would love for that to be an option, but if it were, I would have little choice but to live in a cave and watch rabbits make bunnies for my entertainment.

Koyote

Actually, I literally stated the exact opposite:

Does anyone on bf know how to read?

vespasianus

What the hell was the point of this thread again?

Koyote

Someone hates China.

VegasJen

I can and will do $70. Where do you see that? I only looked on the brand's website. That's where I got the numbers I was quoting. I don't really know where else to look. I wouldn't mind finding a good online source besides Amazon. Not really a fan of any of the mega-retailers. I always prefer to shop/buy small, local businesses when it's an option. Not so easy when you live in a dinky town.
Actually, you DID state I was violating a principle because I would buy a Chinese product based on cost. I said no such thing. I said I wish there were more options in my price point.

Do you even know what you posted???
I don't hate China, or the Chinese. I do hate the CCP. As I detest communism. It is a horrible, oppressive form of government.

Bulette

$99, and took less time to find than reading this thread.
https://www.kask.com/en/cycling/helmets/rapido_24_2.htm

So you expect a cadre of burger flippers to prepare you a meal from time to time, but admit that you're okay with paying them substandard wages, and relegating them to poverty? Oh, and cut the government safety nets too right?

Honestly, what a trash thread with some trash opinions all around.

On a good note, that $99 Kask helmet is just a small stretch above my usual helmet budget...

mstateglfr 

If you want to buy limited distribution products locally, your best best chance at doing so is to not live in a dinky town.

https://bikecloset.com/product/kask-...BoCu0oQAvD_BwE
Gray and black in size small for $70.

Pretty expensive helmet usually.

Camilo

Just another opportunity for some of us to devolve into pedantry.

Camilo

I'm with you on Amazon. I have amassed a bunch of great online stores that are often equal or below prices and have better availability than Amazon. Two I've used recently to very good effect are Western Bike Works / BIke Tires Direct and MooseJaw. I've also used Jensen, Perforemance/Nashbar, Colorado Cyclist, Competitive Cyclist/Backcountry, Planet Bike, Trail This, Ben's / Milwaukee, REI, Classic Cycling, MANY EBay sellers, and many others recently. I haven't had to use Amazon for over a year, and a couple thousand dollars worth of stuff (groups, wheels, tires, shoes, helmets, etc.) . Would I use Amazon if it was the only place to get something? Probably, but I really like to avoid it if it's not a huge hardship.

If you do a simple web search for Kask helmets, some of the above and many other sources will come up.

VegasJen

Sure. If you're a burger flipper, you should be, 1) in school, 2) a teenager, 3) a con trying to get back on his feet. Flipping burgers is NOT a fkn career. Why is that so hard to understand? If you're 30 or 40 years old and you find yourself behind the grill at a fast food joint, chances are you've made some pretty s****y decisions in life.
But I like living in a dinky town. I lived in Las Vegas for a whole lot of years and I can hardly stand going there now. It's trade offs. And for me, driving into Vegas only once or twice a month is worth the inconvenience.
Thanks for the referrals. Will check out.

Paul Barnard

Any time someone asks about products that are not made in China, that comments comes out. I am assuming that you know that there are often no reasonable non-Chinese options in certain product categories right?

Paul Barnard

The OP asked this question:

"Any chance I can buy a helmet that is NOT made in China?"

indyfabz

And he hasn’t been back since.

Bulette

An even better deal on a well made helmet!


This is an irrational justification. What students or teens are working the grill at noon? Either way, I worked those grills, as an adult, side by side with other adults. Career or not, some people rely on those jobs. If you don't want to pay them fairly, we should just outsource their labor to China...

GhostRider62

To give the troll-in-chief the chance to tell us we are all stupid and can't read and of course, spew political crap at will polluting the thread.

TMonk

Closing for just a bit. While there was nothing wrong with the original question, it's sort of understandable that this would devolve into a political line of underlying motives and secondary questions. Surprised there hasn't been more hostility in this thread TBH.