Stelvio or Alpe d’huez?
12-30-22, 12:02 PM
#1
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Stelvio or Alpe d’huez?
I have an opportunity to add one or the other of these climbs onto a short trip and want to make sure I don’t pick the one that makes more demands on my wife’s good will so my question is about the comparative safety of the two climbs. Is there consensus about which offers more safety:
Thanks in advance for any insights/information.
- from cars (road provides adequate room for drivers and cyclists, and the drivers tend to have the inclination to give cyclists room)?
- and from the road surfaces ie. maintained such that they don’t unduly complicate the descents, especially through switchbacks.
Thanks in advance for any insights/information.
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12-30-22, 03:25 PM
#2
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I have an opportunity to add one or the other of these climbs onto a short trip and want to make sure I don’t pick the one that makes more demands on my wife’s good will so my question is about the comparative safety of the two climbs. Is there consensus about which offers more safety:
Thanks in advance for any insights/information.
- from cars (road provides adequate room for drivers and cyclists, and the drivers tend to have the inclination to give cyclists room)?
- and from the road surfaces ie. maintained such that they don’t unduly complicate the descents, especially through switchbacks.
Thanks in advance for any insights/information.
Last edited by Atlas Shrugged; 12-30-22 at 03:29 PM.
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12-30-22, 04:15 PM
#3
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The food, people, culture and scenery in Italy is SO much better. I spent over 6 weeks in France in my entire life and many years in Italy. The only good meals in France were either at the homes of Italians living there or at Middle Eastern type places. The French have a double standard to locals and tourists much worse than anywhere else that you normally don't see in Italy charging WAY more and feeding you lesser quality food. But even visiting different parts of France with locals the food was at best mediocre to decent.
You can eat lousy in Italy too these days as many of the larger cities especially the touristy places have seen the quality drop in favor of this "cuisine nouveau" like many people like to eat here in the states. You know with all the sauces and sweet syrups to drown out low quality (read CHEAP and PROFIT BOOSTING) ingredients. But if you eat in places where the menu is only in one language, Italian, usually in small towns you can do quite well. I would say it's almost impossible to have a good meal in France outside of what I mentioned isn't just bread and cheese while in Italy it's almost impossible to eat badly outside big cities and touristy places.
Both French and Italian roads, are terrifying if you're used to United States wideness and behavior. You can tell when you crossed the border on those tiny mountain roads in the Pyrenees from Spain to France (no more checkpoints any more) when the road becomes narrow, disconnected and the curves become blind. Spain has amazing roads but French and Italian ones are kind of lousy in their own ways. At least the mountains tend not to have bike lanes which make everything worse for everyone involved, riders, cars and pedestrians.
Go to Italy it craps all over France. Enjoy the scenery, stuff your face, don't worry about the awful roads you'll get used to them.
You can eat lousy in Italy too these days as many of the larger cities especially the touristy places have seen the quality drop in favor of this "cuisine nouveau" like many people like to eat here in the states. You know with all the sauces and sweet syrups to drown out low quality (read CHEAP and PROFIT BOOSTING) ingredients. But if you eat in places where the menu is only in one language, Italian, usually in small towns you can do quite well. I would say it's almost impossible to have a good meal in France outside of what I mentioned isn't just bread and cheese while in Italy it's almost impossible to eat badly outside big cities and touristy places.
Both French and Italian roads, are terrifying if you're used to United States wideness and behavior. You can tell when you crossed the border on those tiny mountain roads in the Pyrenees from Spain to France (no more checkpoints any more) when the road becomes narrow, disconnected and the curves become blind. Spain has amazing roads but French and Italian ones are kind of lousy in their own ways. At least the mountains tend not to have bike lanes which make everything worse for everyone involved, riders, cars and pedestrians.
Go to Italy it craps all over France. Enjoy the scenery, stuff your face, don't worry about the awful roads you'll get used to them.
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12-30-22, 06:48 PM
#4
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thanks for those tips - exactly what I was hoping for when I posted the question!
12-30-22, 07:18 PM
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12-30-22, 07:38 PM
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Comedy legend of 2022, I don't know if I can accept that title but if that is what the people want I guess I can't say no!
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12-30-22, 11:50 PM
#7
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Just throwing this out there. The Sella Ronda bike day.
It is a world renowned bike ride, it is closed to vehicle traffic. I've never done it, but have been in the area during the event and it is quite the gathering and as for views it cannot be beat
https://www.sellarondabikeday.com/index_en.html
It is a world renowned bike ride, it is closed to vehicle traffic. I've never done it, but have been in the area during the event and it is quite the gathering and as for views it cannot be beat
https://www.sellarondabikeday.com/index_en.html
12-31-22, 01:22 AM
#8
Senior Member
Although riding with a large group of bike nerds is as about as inviting as a toothache, the Sella Bike Bike day is certainly the best time to ride the passes. No cars, exhaust fumes, car horns, and no distracted cagers!
12-31-22, 03:29 AM
#9
Junior Member
It's not necessarily a bad place to visit France, just not as interesting culturally, but the biggest problem with France is it’s filled with French people. Have friends and family in both countries and am wont to go to the frogs because Italy is so much better, especially the more "Italy for Italians" Italy I have opportunities to see thus avoiding the usual touristy Venice, Florence, Rome and Amalfi Coast mobs.
Both countries strength is the tiny little hilltop towns mingling with the old people who run the bar, restaurant or corner market stuffing your face accordingly. Visiting the graveyard seeing when people died, what they looked like, talking to the locals. Italy >>>>>>>>>> France in that case. Spain also deserves honorable mention closer to Italy also because their roads are tops in Europe but the food and culture not as interesting for the most part. Allhambra and traces of Moorish colonization in the South is incredible though.
Last edited by StanSeven; 12-31-22 at 11:08 AM.
12-31-22, 05:45 AM
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The food, people, culture and scenery in Italy is SO much better. I spent over 6 weeks in France in my entire life and many years in Italy. The only good meals in France were either at the homes of Italians living there or at Middle Eastern type places. The French have a double standard to locals and tourists much worse than anywhere else that you normally don't see in Italy charging WAY more and feeding you lesser quality food. But even visiting different parts of France with locals the food was at best mediocre to decent.
You can eat lousy in Italy too these days as many of the larger cities especially the touristy places have seen the quality drop in favor of this "cuisine nouveau" like many people like to eat here in the states. You know with all the sauces and sweet syrups to drown out low quality (read CHEAP and PROFIT BOOSTING) ingredients. But if you eat in places where the menu is only in one language, Italian, usually in small towns you can do quite well. I would say it's almost impossible to have a good meal in France outside of what I mentioned isn't just bread and cheese while in Italy it's almost impossible to eat badly outside big cities and touristy places.
Both French and Italian roads, are terrifying if you're used to United States wideness and behavior. You can tell when you crossed the border on those tiny mountain roads in the Pyrenees from Spain to France (no more checkpoints any more) when the road becomes narrow, disconnected and the curves become blind. Spain has amazing roads but French and Italian ones are kind of lousy in their own ways. At least the mountains tend not to have bike lanes which make everything worse for everyone involved, riders, cars and pedestrians.
Go to Italy it craps all over France. Enjoy the scenery, stuff your face, don't worry about the awful roads you'll get used to them.
You can eat lousy in Italy too these days as many of the larger cities especially the touristy places have seen the quality drop in favor of this "cuisine nouveau" like many people like to eat here in the states. You know with all the sauces and sweet syrups to drown out low quality (read CHEAP and PROFIT BOOSTING) ingredients. But if you eat in places where the menu is only in one language, Italian, usually in small towns you can do quite well. I would say it's almost impossible to have a good meal in France outside of what I mentioned isn't just bread and cheese while in Italy it's almost impossible to eat badly outside big cities and touristy places.
Both French and Italian roads, are terrifying if you're used to United States wideness and behavior. You can tell when you crossed the border on those tiny mountain roads in the Pyrenees from Spain to France (no more checkpoints any more) when the road becomes narrow, disconnected and the curves become blind. Spain has amazing roads but French and Italian ones are kind of lousy in their own ways. At least the mountains tend not to have bike lanes which make everything worse for everyone involved, riders, cars and pedestrians.
Go to Italy it craps all over France. Enjoy the scenery, stuff your face, don't worry about the awful roads you'll get used to them.
12-31-22, 05:49 AM
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It's not necessarily a bad place to visit France, just not as interesting culturally, but the biggest problem with France is its filled with French people. Have friends and family in both countries and am wont to go to the frogs because Italy is so much better, especially the more "Italy for Italians" Italy I have opportunities to see thus avoiding the usual touristy Venice, Florence, Rome and Amalfi Coast mobs.
Last edited by StanSeven; 12-31-22 at 11:09 AM.
12-31-22, 08:50 AM
#12
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Have family and friends in both countries and studied French for 9 years, still fluent in it due to school and work. I travelled a lot more in Italy but I did spend over 6 weeks (not all at once) in France in various places and despite having seen it from the locals point of view was never able to eat as well or enjoy it as much. I developed this "postjudice" (not prejudice as it happened after experiencing France) following repeated trips. Would still go but if I could only do one Italy is by far the more charming. But like I said the touristy places in both reek of mediocrity and are to be avoided. Being objective Italy is just more interesting and has more to offer and once I got used to that France pales in comparison.
Last edited by StanSeven; 12-31-22 at 11:02 AM.
12-31-22, 08:59 AM
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12-31-22, 11:40 AM
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Thread is reopened after cleanup of some posts. Let’s stick with the original subject of this thread about safety from vehicles and road conditions of the two climbs too.
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