kingston 

This is my eighth season waxing chains and I've always wondered if this is true so today I waxed two new KMC x11sl chains. I stripped one using the same MSW technique I have always used and the other I just put in the crock pot. When I pulled the two chains out the results were definitely different. Noticeably more wax stuck to the stripped chain than the non-stripped chain. My guess is that after a few uses/waxes I won't be able to tell a difference between the two. We'll see.

Kontact 

It might also depend on temperature. Crock pots can keep the wax temp barely above melting point, which may not be high enough to dissolve the oil completely.

I wax my chains in a sauce pan at low heat with the chain under the wax brick. Never pre-clean anything, and I have seen zero difference in outcome. But the oily chains pollute the wax faster. So I have a dirty brick for first time waxes and cleaner stuff for re-waxes.

elcruxio

One thing that also needs to be kept in mind is that the factory grease / wax, while soluble in wax, does take a bit of time to actually dissolve. Also the stuff that's inside the chain needs to be moved out and replaced by fresh wax. If one merely dips the chain in molten wax and just lets sit for too short a period, the wax inside the chain will have a larger portion of factory stuff in. Also too short dips may not let all the factory grease dissolve.

So if a chain is not cleaned prior in any way, it will require more time and more agitation to make wax flow inside the chain and actually dissolve the factory stuff.

Nowadays I do a single soak in solvent, quick wash in boiling water and then into the wax. Did three new chains yesterday and all of them came out like any other chain I have.

eduskator

That's the main reason why I always strip mines from any lube or grease before waxing them the first time.

An overnight soak in fuel, then a rinse in rubbing alcohol and a final rinse under hot & soapy water, and voilà!

Racing Dan

You need to apply a tiny bit of effort. Best practice is to let that chain fully heat in the wax and swish it for a minute or so, like you should anyway. Dipping for 0.1 second, to "prove" it doesn't work, is what the naysayers would do.

Racing Dan

If the chain is filthy to begin with, sure. But a new chain doesn't pollute a block of wax.

Kontact 

I just have two bricks of wax - which is why I don't have to mess with solvents and rinsing. You are doing a lot more work than I am to get the same results.

Kontact 

Well, the chain oil is going to go somewhere.


However, I do sometimes just use the chain out of the package for a few hundred miles, then wax it for the first time. Either way, the wax cleans it and gets some contamination. It just takes quite a few of these 'dirty' soaks to ruin the wax as a lube.

Racing Dan

This is great ´n all, if you follow the test procedure. Then some lubes come out really bad and others look like they can make a chain last forever. However, have you any idea how this is tested?

let me tell you in brief. A chain that last all 6 blocks are lubricated a total of 30 times or, on average ever 200 simulated km. Sounds reasonable. - Except, that involves removing the chain from the bike 30 times to hot wax it. Thats a lot of work that I have a hard time believing anyone would keep up.

Contrast that to how the test is performed with drip lubes. Chain is initially cleaned and lubed with the test lubricant, but every subsequent lubing is applied on top of the old lube and added sand/contamination. NO cleaning at all. Chain is simply run into the ground, caked in old lube and sand. - Imo, you have to ask yourself if that procedure was designed in good faith or a specific outcome was the objective. I dunno, I was just stunned when i finally came around to read beyond the headline.

choddo

Is that supposed to be an equivalent lack of cleaning for both? Seems a bit of a stretch but I bet that’s how they justified it.

Racing Dan

The reasoning is many lubes claim to be "self cleaning" and ..

"Cleaning maintenance during test would severely impact the ability of the test to assess key performance abilities
and marketing claims."

Yeah sure, that sounds sort of reasonable, but repeated hot waxing perform the same function in it replacing old lube with new and flushing out grit and metal particles, even if it technically isn't "cleaning". Thats the great upside to hot waxing, but the downside is the associated faff. Ofc. ppl will claim its no big deal, but come on, re waxing every 200 km IS a faff.

Im betting with this test protocol any hot wax would do just fine, including completely not unrelated stuff. like carnaubawax, sunflowerwax, bikiniwax, coconut butter, etc. - as long as you can melt on some new "lube" every 200 km. Or why not get a bucket of thin oil and swish your chain in that ever 200 km. Chain would last forever.

elcruxio

I have a few thoughts...

Firstly often in these waxing topics there are people who feel the need to disparage the effort required for waxing and give "advice" about how it's much simpler just to apply one drop of lube per roller and wipe clean. Considering how large of an undertaking cleaning an oiled dirty chain is, I doubt many do it all that often. So the method of applying lube on a not completely sterile chain is pretty common.

On the topic of effort, rewaxing every 200km isn't unheard of. I do it when the conditions are bad. But the people who do usually rotate multiple chains so the typical chain maintenance is actually just a chain swap, which doesn't take a lot of effort at all.
With wax you can't really skimp on the waxing intervals because a chain that has had its wax worn off becomes very noisy very quickly.

As to the test protocol, it is mentioned that the lubes are applied per manufacturer instructions. One would assume that if manufacturer states that add drop per roller and wipe clean, that is what is done. However if the chain is not wiped clean after drip lubes the test itself can give valuable information on how the different lubes perform. With hot melt waxes you're sorta kinda forced to dunk the chain in wax, which in turn does clean the chain. That is in fact one of the main advantages of hot melt waxes.

On that point, some drip lubes are marketed by statements like "cleans and lubes". But the ZFC protocol debunks such claims quite efficiently.

I wouldn't say the test protocol has been devised in bad faith or to favor one type of lube over the next. Wax needs frequent reapplication. That's sorta the whole point. But perhaps the ZFC has some exasperation toward A) marketing claims and B) towards people who claim wiping a chain clean is all you need.

If you read the testing protocol, you'll notice that block 1 is 1000km and has no added contamination. So there is valuable data to be gleaned from that alone. If a drip lube fares badly with in block 1 and is lubricated by manufacturer instructions, it's a bad lube. For example Muc Off nano went through 37 % of its wear allocation in 1000km with no added contamination.

However even if the test protocol isn't optimal for drip lubes, there are drip lubes which fare very well indeed. Rex Black Diamond being one of them (they also have a hot melt wax called Black Diamond. That's different stuff. The original is wet drip lube).

So even with the faults in the test protocol, if you know how to read the data you can get some pretty good conclusions out.

Racing Dan

I agree.

Some of the drip lubes does perform very well, despite the disadvantage. I my mind they are, by far, the most desirable option, and for that reason I have begun researching how to form wax emulsions (thats what the best drip wax lubes likely are). The ingredients seem readily available and very cheap, but to date no one has posted a diy solution, that im sure is possible.

elcruxio

not if you run multiple chains. It is also possible to vary waxing intervals depending on conditions. 200km is a good interval in extreme conditions. In good summer conditions the interval for the better waxes is from 400 to 1000+km.

Testing is being done with candle wax. It's not doing as well as you'd imagine. It's not bad, but not great either.

Thin oil would definitely clean the chain. But then you'd have a chain dripping with oil, no matter how thin it is. Even WD40 will attract a lot of gunk if you don't carefully wipe the chain after application.

Psimet2001 

For some reason I hit the bookmark on my browser to just drop in here. Says I chimed in on this thread. I am sure it was a while ago and I am sure I was either against waxing completely or was "waxing curious"

I started waxing using the Silca system sometime early last season. My bikes, as well as those of a few key riders who work out of here. The result were better than I thought they would be. My own wet lube performed really well but the wax is nicer in most conditions. We now wax chains for customers as well as sell the Silca system. I have 2 of his new melters on order for when they back in stock.

Perfect for road and most gravel applications. Wax really doesn't like the water or mud. I ran it through last cross season including the newsworthy mud conditions we had at the Trek UCI race. Chain ended up rusted before I got a chance to get it dried off. Same thing of another wet race we had at the end of the year.

i have done the whole pre-cleaning methods described by Josh at Silca. I also switched to their all in one cleaner last year and I have to say it works remarkably well. I really don't have much of a desire to use the Strip Chip method he has now but I do have it on order. A small ultrasonic wash with the one step striping cleaner he has would seem ideal tbh. Combined with that new melter and controller I think I will be set for our operations.

I find it to be little to no hassle to wax chains now. granted I have my own shop and I have all day to drop a chain in whenever. If I was doing this for myself at home I would also have no problem doing it. It really isn't much of a hassle. If I really didn't have time then I would probably have someone hot wax one chain then use the Super Secret for maintenance until I really had the time to hotwax it again.

IMHO - if you're commuting in all conditions and don't want to spend a lot of time maintaining the bike then I would just use a drip lube/oil. If you're racing in crap conditions then I would recommend the same. General gravel use - I would recommend waxing. General performance road usage I would absolutely recommend waxing. Fatbiking - wet lube. Mtb - if it's like here where you can't even ride the trails when it is wet out then definitely wax.

For those that do wax - I don't know how you do it but some of you really get a ton of wax on there and then it takes me way too long to clean up the rest of the drive-train. Just get it hot - let it sit so the chain comes up to temp then shake and pull.

seypat

You gonna take a stab at the DeGent hookless rims thread?

Psimet2001 

I can almost imagine. No.

elcruxio

Surface rust is a thing that does happen with waxing. But it's the inside that counts. We typically run chains for about 200km or one or two weeks during the winter where they get constantly exposed to road salted water. There's less rust than you'd expect and the insides of the chains are fine with that waxing interval as the inside is protected by the wax.

I disagree. Commuting in all conditions is where wax shines as there's no wet lube buildup, no cleaning, no wiping chains, no degreasing chains every week or so, etc.
The winter before I started waxing was rough. My wife's bike gets ridden the most as she actually has to go to her workplace and let me tell you, there isn't a lube wet enough to last more than 50km when the squeaking started. Rustand rusty oil splatter everywhere!. I really did try to clean the chain, drivetrain, frame etc. but it just wasn't enough. The park tool chain cleaner is frankly a useless piece of kit. Gasoline and a jar works, but that gets old fast.
So now I wax and my wife's commuter has 4 chains in rotation that I swap out every 200km or so.

Fatbiking, wax. Definitely wax.

There are those on the internet who recommend letting the wax cool before removing the chain in order to leave as much wax on the chain as possible... I do not understand those people. Or said recommendation.

Troul 

caking on the wax for 12 speed setups, it tends to cause poor shifting performance on the smaller diameter cogs until it's spun off. If that will bother you, then don't let the chain cool in the wax & wipe it while it's able to be smeared off.

Kontact 

This situation isn't helped by the way Silca and others market waxing as this involved, scientific endeavor. Add to that the promotion of crock pots because adults can't be trusted heating oil on their stove top.

No one is marketing dumping dirty chains in cheap wax heated in a $5 sauce pan. There's no money in that.

choddo

My slow cooker thing was only about $12 so not sure there’s much money in that either. Plus it avoided my wife’s ire. And I’m not using their laced waxes. The normal stuff seemed to work fine and no ptfe or MoS2 all over the verges.

SpedFast

My second hand slow cooker gave up the ghost so I simply use a hotplate and 2 qt kettle with a piece of screen under the wax for the dirt to fall through. Sometimes I probably get the wax a little too hot, but you don't have to bother cleaning a new chain because the heat boils that grease right into the wax. We make French fries in the same size (not the same kettle, duh) kettle on a gas range and have for years. Never burnt a house down yet and that oil gets freaken hot!

Kontact 

It's not the money (though it takes a lot more wax to cover a chain in a crock pot than a small pan), it's the amount of time it takes to even get the wax melted. I can go zero to riding in less than 20 minutes - but most people see chain waxing as something that requires planning, counter space, multiple steps and time.

If people just used cheap wax on uncleaned chains in pans, they wouldn't consider waxing a chore compared to oil. Even if you were to throw out the wax after ever application, it would still be incredibly cheap and convenient.


$5 a pound.

Silca: $40 a pound.

eduskator

Factory lube will contaminate it, so does road debris, dirt, grime, etc. The former is avoidable; the latter is not.

Soaking a chain in fuel overnight and rinsing it after is not really ''more work''. I rinse and pre-wash my car before washing it - same principle apply here.

Racing Dan

Waxing a new chain in a sauce pan with a pound of wax isnt doing anything detrimantal and its so much less work and much faster than a crock pot or the silly little 100w silca pot. But yeah I get where you are coming from. You bough into the hype that you need expensive wax, that you don want to ruin, and that the chain MUST be 100.000% clean before it can be waxed. Thus you end up messing with "bike specific" chain degreasers, toxic solvents, ultrasonic cleaning machines, strip chips, crock pots, little waxing machines etc. All a huge faff and expense that you tirelessly try to explain away. I was merely pointing out there is a much easier route. It may not be 100.000% as perfect but it will get you "95%" of the way with notably less faff and expense. - However, ppl refuse to believe it. Only perceived perfection will do, leading to you to dream up random, complicated procedures that only the most anal will keep up in the long run.

IF i cared to clean a chain id do it in an other "dirty" sauce pan with cheap wax. Hot wax will dissolve factory grease or melt away old wax lube. Eliminating any other cleaning product and eliminating getting the chain wet, if hot water is you preferred cleaning method.