Originally Posted by pcb

I'm somewhat shocked to think that I'm the first one in this thread to say, nay, shout: "HOLY MOLY, THAT HAS TO BE THE BEST DUMPSTER FIND IN THE WORLD, EVER!!!!!!!" Not sure that's enough exclamation marks, so here's some more: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by unworthy1

I have heard there was (maybe still is) a hotbed of custom building centered in Adelaide, any way of reaching out to some experts in that area?

Originally Posted by bulgie

The Hitachi mark does mean it was cast there, but that's not the "brand". I think it's an Eisho shell, and they used Hitachi as their casting partner. Takahashi also made shells and crowns with the Hitachi mark.

The lugs are either Eisho Royal or a very good knock-off — I'm betting they are real Eisho lugs. Which is a good thing, they are terrific, super well made and aesthetically pleasing (to me). They're popular with high-end Japanese FBs, especially Keirin. You could get them in other countries though, so this doesn't narrow it down. I made maybe a half-dozen custom frames with those lugs.

I slightly preferred the Takahashi shell (also cast by Hitachi as I said) but my reasons are not important — the Eisho shell is awesome, way nicer than a Cinelli IMHO. The castings you can buy nowadays are mostly crap by comparison. I don't mean they break or anything practical like that, I just mean the curves aren't as pleasing and the surface finish is rougher. You have to hold the raw shell or lugs in your hands to appreciate how finely-made they were. Or maybe still are, if they're still made? I haven't been able to find any to buy for quite some time, but no doubt there are stashes of them in some better Keirin framebuilders' ateliers. Since I'm not currently building frames, I haven't been looking too hard.

Mark B in Seattle

Originally Posted by unworthy1

Excellent details noted by Mark B. (bulgie) and he's one who knows! Agree with the "Eisho" connection and even though all these bits were very popular with US Custom builders, maybe even more so with Aussie builders (proximity). I have heard there was (maybe still is) a hotbed of custom building centered in Adelaide, any way of reaching out to some experts in that area?

Originally Posted by repechage

That fork crown looks very CCM like- not stating any connection but it is unusual in my book.

There must be a biz down under that takes in a lot of repaints? I would look to one of them and see if they recognize the metalwork

I think the fork is a strong pointer

Originally Posted by Gary Fountain

I think it would be a 'long shot' to identify the builder of this frame. It has all the hallmarks of a locally (Aust.) built frame without any sort of serial number. I would guess a mid to late 80's build considering the two sets of bidon mounts. It is a re-paint as previously discussed and the decals were easy to come by on sheets of assorted decals available around that time. I would guess that the frame owner may not have had access to original decals as they were really hard to find back then so the owner went for a 'set' of decals that would just suit the frame and possibly the components used to kit the frame out.

Originally Posted by pcb

I'm somewhat shocked to think that I'm the first one in this thread to say, nay, shout: "HOLY MOLY, THAT HAS TO BE THE BEST DUMPSTER FIND IN THE WORLD, EVER!!!!!!!" Not sure that's enough exclamation marks, so here's some more: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The only way it could be any better would be if the frame was clearly the work of a master builder, including Bulgie, identified as such with original paint/decals. There's easily north of US$1k in just the 50th Anniv parts after they're cleaned up. Potentially north of $2k if they clean up real pretty.

My first thought was it could be a show bike frame/build, maybe by a local Oz importer, so matching Campy/Columbus was less important than it might be for Campy proper. But could just as easily be a rabid Campy fan's feverish dream bike, nothing but Campy decals and 50th Anniv bits. I'm not a rabid Campy fan, but I could stare lovingly at that bike, displayed in my living room, for many a year.

Bulgie the master builder has a keen eye for the bits and much else, his word is final on that score. It seems to me that there aren't any identifiable details in the frame construction that tie it to any particular builder, or even a smaller group/region of builders. There could be something there that somebody will spot, but nothing very distinctive so far. It's important to note that doesn't mean the frame is any way inferior, it looks very well-built. There just doesn't appear to be any unique "signature" feature that would help pin down the actual builder.

I don't want this to take a morbid turn, but if OP knows the name of the original owner, or can figure it out, the undergrad historian in me, combined with the space-age cyberstalker in me, thinks it might be worth doing some web searching to see if they had any online presence. They might have posted something about the bike in a forum somewhere, sometime. Might turn up nothing, might find their post saying: "Hey, I just had my custom Llewellyn repainted with only Campy decals to show off my 50th Anniv parts." Cyberstalker confession: Llewellyn was the first hit I got searching for "australia bicycle framebuilder." I know an Ozzie named Peter Somebody built the Scandium Fuji Pro frames 20yrs ago, but can't remember his last name, and couldn't get a search hit.

Update: just found it, Peter Teschner. He didn't start building till '90, not sure he ever built lugged frames. Looks like he started importing/repping another brand before leaving the biz in 2012 to head a local gov't tourist promotion council, then went back into the bike biz in '18 as GM of the bicycle division of Titomic, a local hi-tech metallurgy company. He has 3 children....sorry, just making up that last bit about possible children. Geez, I gotta get off the internet....

But the most important thing to say is: Well done, sir.

Originally Posted by Doug Fattic

I agree with Gary that probably the Campy decals were chosen when the frame was repainted because of the ease of getting them compared to the difficulty of getting original ones. As a painter myself, the paint job does not look professional. The surface should be much smoother. An amateur painter would have difficulty convincing the original builder or painter to get their decals - especially back in the 80's.

The fork crown is very distinctive and might lead us to whoever built the frame. The problem is that there have been many custom builders that got into it for awhile and then left to make more money in some other kind of work.

Originally Posted by AnthonyG

The 70's and 80's was a time when next to no one bought and rode an off the shelf race bike in Australia and custom frame builders were numerous. I remember one guy having a Bianchi but that may have been just the frame.
I had a custom Lennie Rogers frame built back then from Reynolds 531db but I believe that the previous lead you have would be better.
There really were a lot of custom frame builders in Australia at the time.

Originally Posted by Doug Fattic

One place on a frame that shows a builder's individual style is how the dropouts are attached to the blades and stays. A picture of that area would be helpful. Also Campy dropout edges are typically smoothed by the builder in some fashion. They could be squared or rounded depending on how the builder wanted them to look. It will probably be a particular combination of ordinary factors (for example the distinctive fork crown treatment and bottom bracket shell hole drilling) that can lead to builder identification.

Potential sources of knowledge could be painters that might recognize an individual's work.

Originally Posted by Doug Fattic

Those are pretty distinctive stay to rear dropout treatments. The front is a fairly common method to finish that joint. I believe that the combination of the fork crown treatment and the drilled holes in the BB shell along with the way the rear dropouts are filed should be distinctive enough to determine who the builder is. The problem of course is that whoever it is might not have made very many so it might be difficult to find him.

Originally Posted by Doug Fattic

My main thought is that I would definitely use a hone to clean the inside of the seat tube before putting the seat post back in. I'm also a little surprised they got the vent hole a lot off center. It isn't important for function but it indicates a sloppiness there not shown in other areas of making the frame. Often there is some kind of serial # on the steerer and there doesn't appear to be one. That might indicate an amateur builder (perhaps under the eye of a pro builder). I don't see other areas that looks like a beginner's work like blobs of brazing material sticking out beyond the lug shorelines for example. Also the end of seat stay top end takes more work and skill than using a more common (and faster to do) plug style (called a "top eye"). One has to be reasonably good to file the rear dropouts as nicely as those were done so that would indicate some experience was involved. The color written on the steerer would also indicate it was professionally done so the painter can keep track of the fork with the frame. I'm not impressed with the quality of the paint work if it was a professional. Sometimes the painter may be a car painter and not familiar with how difficult it is to paint a bicycle frame.

Originally Posted by AnthonyG

Curiosity got the better of me and as a long shot I pulled my custom Lennie Rogers frame out of storage. The detail treatments don't match although I wasn't really expecting them to. The Wayne Roberts lead look much more promising.

Originally Posted by MarkinOz

Interesting to read that there were multiple “Sydney” frame builders associated with the Lennie Rogers frame.

Originally Posted by AnthonyG

Yes. Lennie Rogers ran a bike shop and had the frames build for him and he was far from the only shop in Australia to do this. Cecil Walker bikes in Melbourne is known for doing this as well.
So the question of authenticity could take a turn here.
Did you frame originally come with a "shop" name on it or a builders name on it?