iamLefty

Is Shimano 105 R7000 caliper brakes compatible with Tiagra 4600 STI levers? I’ll be replacing the stock c4 calipers on my Caad8. 25c tires btw. I initially wanted to buy the Tiagra 4700 caliper brakes, but saw a good deal on the R7000 caliper brakes.

Iride01 

I don't think brakes will be a problem. But there might be an issue with whatever rear and front DR's you have.

iamLefty

I’m using Tiagra 4600 rd and fd as well.

Dave Mayer

Check with Shimano's component compatibility tables. From time to time for whatever reason, manufacturers change cable pull specs for both braking and shifting.

Iride01 

Your Tiagra 4600 is right before the pull ratios changed for the shifters. Tiagra 4700 10 speed stuff matches the pull ratios of all the 11 speed stuff that came out about the same time. There might be exceptions though for some of the very old 11 speed.

So if you are looking at 105, Ultegra or DuraAce stuff, then look for the 10 speed versions of them.

Or replace your rear DR. They aren't expensive for new Tiagra.

iamLefty

Thanks! Didn’t know about this chart, and this is so helpful. Chart says 4600 sti levers are compatible with r7000 caliper brakes. What does red mean though? Discontinued?

Maelochs

I have 5800 brakes on a 4700/4600 bike. I am not happy but I think I need to adjust lever pull .... I am not convinced the cable pull is the same between the two systems, but ... the bike stops really well, I just don't like the lever feel ... but i don't ride the bike much so I always forget to look up the adjustment process.

So ... yeah, you will have stopping ability. I have ridden hundreds of safe miles using 4600 levers and 5800 brakes.

iamLefty

Just the rd and not the fd? If i don’t replace the rd, would it be better to just get the 4700 brakes?

Iride01 

I don't know about the front DR. However even if Shimano was to say it's not compatible, if I were to be doing something like this then I might just wait and see for the front. If it shifts badly, then I could install a more proper one later. After all the front only shifts between 2 or 3 rings. Your rear has to shift to 10. So with the shorter pull of the new stuff, you'll be off quite a bit before you get to that 10th cog.

I use to have Shimano 105 5800 brakes on a previous bike. This was about the same time my son got a bike with Tiagra 4700 stuff on it. The 105 brakes seemed a little beefier construction. Neither of us had any trouble stopping with them.

Here is what Shimano was showing in their compatibility for road bike brake components back in 2016 - 2017. Which I think is shortly after Tiagra 4700 was introduced by a year or two.For your R7000 stuff you can pretty much consider it to be compatible with anything they show as being compatible with the 105 5800 series. Of course obviously not for the stuff that is 10 speed or 11 speed specific like a 11 speed STI and rear 10 speed cassette.


https://productinfo.shimano.com/down...ty_v030_en.pdf

https://si.shimano.com/en/#/

Still it's hard to make a recommendation. I don't know what exactly is currently on your bike, what you've already bought and what your actual goals or reason for doing this is.

Maelochs

If you are running the 4600 derailleurs, why replace them if they work well? If you are keeping the 4600 STIs (brifters, levers, whatever term you like) then why buy anything new? As far as I can tell, according to the Shimano chart, ythe 4600 STIs should be fine with the 7000 brakes .... so get the good brakes. If you start swapping derailleurs, you might end up with further compatibility issues.

Above someone said it was 4700 when Shimano adjusted the cable pull on the Tiagra group .... which is why I don't recommend older Tiagra even though it works well .... you are stuck with the brifters and derailleurs, and if anything breaks you need to replace the whole lot. Since you have 4600, use it until it is used up.

I am not sure the 4700 derailleurs are any better, just that they were redesigned to match the other series' cable pull.

Please keep in mind, the only thing I am an expert on is being wrong.

Iride01 

And if all you are doing is replacing the brake calipers with brake calipers from the 11 speed of any Shimano series, then that is probably no issue.

Reading back I think my confusion as to what you were doing confused you some and me even further!

veganbikes

If you want a really good deal keep whatever brakes you have and get some Kool Stop or SwissStop pads and good stiff shoes and replace your cables and housing with Jagwire Elite or Pro kits and that will improve your braking a lot more than 105 calipers. Nothing against 105 and you can always do both but I would rather save the money and put it towards my next bike.

Generally though the calipers will be compatible but I would say for rim brakes it would be more unique stuff like eeBrakes that really are a super upgrade. Most everything else maybe cuts a little weight or looks a little nicer but not a huge performance upgrade compared to the replaceable components

iamLefty

No i’m not planning on replacing the 4600 STIs. I only wanted to replace the stock c4 brake from Cannondale. I was gonna get the Tiagra BR-4700 but saw a good deal on a 105 BR-R7000.

iamLefty

Yeah i only wanted to replace the stock Cannondale c4 caliper brakes. And my options are either the Tiagra BR-4700, or, if there is not gonna be any issue at all, BR-R7000.

So no issue at all getting the 105 BR-R7000 for my bike with Tiagra 4600 STIs?

iamLefty

Thanks. I’ll try to look for those pads you mentioned. I’m from the PH so some stuff aren’t easily available here and may be harder to find. Although i’m really leaning towards replacing the stock brake calipers for a while now.

bluehills3149

I believe R7000 utilize Shimano new SLR EV cable pull on the brake levers whereas Tiagra 4600 calipers use the older "new super SLR"
I Think the cable pull is the same for both.
Oh. And to clarify Tiagra 4700 rear derailleurs are basically the same as any Shimano 11sod derailleur, geometry wise. They're just heavier and hence cheaper. It's the lever that is a unique component with its own gear cable pull.

bluehills3149

Here's an explanation of SLR, Super SLR, New Super SLR, SLR EV, brakes.
https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?t=141578
if this doesn't confuse you further then hats off to you.

Iride01 

Not that I know of or can think of.

But your question will have been better ask in the Bicycle Mechanics section of the forum. There it'd get viewed by more of the members that have a bicycle mechanic background or are bicycle DIYer's. Many of them don't show up in this and other forums.

But for just changing the brake calipers and nothing else, you should be good. Are the existing brakes damaged? Other than changing the pads, usually brake calipers are good forever.

Oh... be sure to look at the "reach" of your old calipers compared to what you might get. That is how far the arms reach down. Measured from the mounting bolt I think? Usually just referenced as long reach or short reach.

iamLefty

No, they work ok. But i do notice a bit of rust on the rear caliper’s spring. I want to have better braking power why i want to replace it with r7000 caliper brakes.

iamLefty

Now that’s another thing i honestly don’t know. The r7000 caliper, does it have long reach? And if the r7000 and my current c4 caliper brake does not have the same reach, does it mean i should not get the r7000?

Edit: Jist checked, and it says the r7000 caliper brake has a 51mm reach. Can’t find anything about the c4, but it looks standard to me.

Maelochs

Tha sort of describes the issues I have with 4600 and what I recall to be 56-mm 5800 calipers ..... not sure because i didn't read it three times ..... Now I have to wonder if I need to dig up that old set of Tektro calipers ......

Iride01 

The spring is only going to affect whether or not your brake arms return to the correct position when no longer want to brake. Not how well it brakes.

My old Varsity had corrosion all over the springs of the brake calipers and much of the other parts. Yet everything functioned quite well. It's only cosmetic.

I doubt you'll have materially better braking power, unless it's just because of the new pads or that the adjustment just happens to be better after you install the new. You can buy new pads for the old brakes... I'd think.

iamLefty

I think there’s 3 of you here who mentioned just replacing the brake pads. And i thought about that. I looked for SwissStop and find them pricey, like half the price of a 4700 caliper brake and some are even half the price of that 105 r700 deal i can get. If it’s half the price of a caliper brake, might as well get a new one. Any other good brake pad you can recommend but not this pricey?

veganbikes

Ahhh fair enough it may be harder to get that but you might find someone who can get it out there it will be a huge upgrade vs. the calipers.

iamLefty

Found some SwissStop. I find them pricey. I’ll look some more. Hopefully i find an authentic one.