What's a good Tire Pressure for a Road Bike for sport riding?
03-24-23, 06:22 AM
#176
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03-24-23, 07:48 AM
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Tubeless tires on wider hookless rims allow for the lowest pressure, which in turn will transmit the least road vibration and produce the best possible ride. They also eliminate nearly all small punctures that would require an on the road tube replacement. My worst and only puncture was a double puncture from a 2 inch long construction staple. I just pulled it out and the leaks sealed immediately. I did add some CO2 to raise the tire pressure, but it's a lot easier than changing a tube. Sealant does need to be replenished every few months. Forget to do that and punctures won't seal.
If you want a harsh ride, like those who still use 23-25mm tires at high pressure, just add more pressure to your tubeless tires. I did that for a few mile test recently. That test verified how awful the ride can be with over pressured tires. I ride mostly chip sealed asphalt, where lower pressure works wonders. With hookless rims, you're advised to limit pressure to 73 psi. With the right tire size, even 250 pound riders can use hookless rims and not exceed 73 psi.
I notice that most of the critics have old rim brake bikes, that may not be able to use a tire wider than a 25. Try a modern disc brake bike bike with wider, lower pressure tires. You'll change your opinion.
If you want a harsh ride, like those who still use 23-25mm tires at high pressure, just add more pressure to your tubeless tires. I did that for a few mile test recently. That test verified how awful the ride can be with over pressured tires. I ride mostly chip sealed asphalt, where lower pressure works wonders. With hookless rims, you're advised to limit pressure to 73 psi. With the right tire size, even 250 pound riders can use hookless rims and not exceed 73 psi.
I notice that most of the critics have old rim brake bikes, that may not be able to use a tire wider than a 25. Try a modern disc brake bike bike with wider, lower pressure tires. You'll change your opinion.
03-24-23, 07:50 AM
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03-24-23, 08:09 AM
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I tried to correct the typo "software" to "softer" four times but each time I press save I am shown a black page with
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03-24-23, 08:39 AM
#180
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It's not about right or wrong. It's only recently that tests proved that lower pressures could lower rolling resistance while improving ride quality. Instead of 15-17mm IW rims, we now have 19-25mm and up to 34mm road tires. If you can get a more comfortable ride and without losing speed, why not do it? I've been on 28-30mm tires with pressures in the 50-65 range since late 2020. I'm sold on modern tubeless tires and wider hookless rims. I just sold my first two sets of skinny 19mm hooked tubeless, in favor of 25mm hookless.
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03-24-23, 09:13 AM
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03-24-23, 09:25 AM
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Would it be okay to say then that we are both being subjective? I am fine with that (rather than my being a 1970's magazine reader, or speaking complete shyte)
I wonder why our experience is different.
You mention that tubeless are strong against flats. I presume that this is because (instead of a tube) they contain sealant. An inner tube can easily weight 100g so that allows for quite a lot of sealant. But I tried tubular tires for a while and filled them with a variety of off the shelf and home made (e.g. latex and glitter) but it did not work out too well. Sometimes it worked but sometimes it did not whereas a patch and a spare tube has almost always worked.
There is a good chance that I am very wrong but I generally feel that cycling "development," of hardware such as frames, and software such pedalling styles and positions is somewhat over-rated.
I am guessing that the additional money available to cycling now as oppose to 1970 has more effected
1) The number of cyclists (there are more now, so the pros now are the best of a bigger pool of athletes)
2) The size and strength of cyclists (the pay to cyclists compares well with any other sport so tall strong athletic people from all over the world are doing it)
3) The teamwork of cyclists. Bigger teams with bigger funding means that it is not a case of mano a mano but one conglomerate against another.
It seems to me that the aerodynamic benefits of team cycling make teams vastly faster than individuals.
And it is the increase in teamwork, due to funding, thus larger teams, that are more coordinated due to radios and information relaying support staff, including analysis of breakaways and the peloton's ability to bring them back in, as well as expensive performance enhancing drugs resulting a more level (superhuman) playing field, that has resulted in the faster cycling times that we are now seeing rather than development that might matter to an individual amateur cyclist.
I am wondering about tubeless tires. I can imagine how they are beneficial for cyclists with team cars carrying spare wheels, who are never going to repair a flat nor change a tube, even if they are riding clinchers.
I wonder why our experience is different.
You mention that tubeless are strong against flats. I presume that this is because (instead of a tube) they contain sealant. An inner tube can easily weight 100g so that allows for quite a lot of sealant. But I tried tubular tires for a while and filled them with a variety of off the shelf and home made (e.g. latex and glitter) but it did not work out too well. Sometimes it worked but sometimes it did not whereas a patch and a spare tube has almost always worked.
There is a good chance that I am very wrong but I generally feel that cycling "development," of hardware such as frames, and software such pedalling styles and positions is somewhat over-rated.
I am guessing that the additional money available to cycling now as oppose to 1970 has more effected
1) The number of cyclists (there are more now, so the pros now are the best of a bigger pool of athletes)
2) The size and strength of cyclists (the pay to cyclists compares well with any other sport so tall strong athletic people from all over the world are doing it)
3) The teamwork of cyclists. Bigger teams with bigger funding means that it is not a case of mano a mano but one conglomerate against another.
It seems to me that the aerodynamic benefits of team cycling make teams vastly faster than individuals.
And it is the increase in teamwork, due to funding, thus larger teams, that are more coordinated due to radios and information relaying support staff, including analysis of breakaways and the peloton's ability to bring them back in, as well as expensive performance enhancing drugs resulting a more level (superhuman) playing field, that has resulted in the faster cycling times that we are now seeing rather than development that might matter to an individual amateur cyclist.
I am wondering about tubeless tires. I can imagine how they are beneficial for cyclists with team cars carrying spare wheels, who are never going to repair a flat nor change a tube, even if they are riding clinchers.
Moving to road tubeless was a major step forward for me. I'd been running tubeless mtb tyres for many years, so that made the transition quite easy. Now I just don't get flats at all. Obviously sealant helps, but I don't get many actual punctures either while running much lower pressures. The ability to quickly plug holes from the outside is another major advantage of tubeless - something I also learnt from mountain biking. Removing a wheel to replace a tube is something I've never had to do since going tubeless.
I think tubeless tyres are actually more of a pita for pro race teams as they have to fit and remove tyres way more often on their fleet of wheels and the sealant must make that a pretty messy job. So I'm sure the mechs hate it! Changing tyres for me at home maybe once a season is no big deal. I just use water soluble sealant, which is fairly easy to clean off the rim.
03-24-23, 09:42 AM
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Our experience is not necessarily different. When I was running 100 psi with tubed narrow tyres I suffered plenty of flats. Maybe I just wasn't running them hard enough? I'll never know.
Moving to road tubeless was a major step forward for me. I'd been running tubeless mtb tyres for many years, so that made the transition quite easy. Now I just don't get flats at all. Obviously sealant helps, but I don't get many actual punctures either while running much lower pressures. The ability to quickly plug holes from the outside is another major advantage of tubeless - something I also learnt from mountain biking. Removing a wheel to replace a tube is something I've never had to do since going tubeless.
I think tubeless tyres are actually more of a pita for pro race teams as they have to fit and remove tyres way more often on their fleet of wheels and the sealant must make that a pretty messy job. So I'm sure the mechs hate it! Changing tyres for me at home maybe once a season is no big deal. I just use water soluble sealant, which is fairly easy to clean off the rim.
Moving to road tubeless was a major step forward for me. I'd been running tubeless mtb tyres for many years, so that made the transition quite easy. Now I just don't get flats at all. Obviously sealant helps, but I don't get many actual punctures either while running much lower pressures. The ability to quickly plug holes from the outside is another major advantage of tubeless - something I also learnt from mountain biking. Removing a wheel to replace a tube is something I've never had to do since going tubeless.
I think tubeless tyres are actually more of a pita for pro race teams as they have to fit and remove tyres way more often on their fleet of wheels and the sealant must make that a pretty messy job. So I'm sure the mechs hate it! Changing tyres for me at home maybe once a season is no big deal. I just use water soluble sealant, which is fairly easy to clean off the rim.
With tubes, if you get a shard of glass lodged in the casing of the tire, you might not find it the first time, and you end up with a second flat (and maybe stranded). I had this happen multiple times over the years. This is pretty much a non-factor with tubeless. You could have shards of glass inside the tire, and they would just get stuck in the sealant and be harmless.
I agree that pro team setup and maintenance is probably a pain, but if it's minimizing flats during races, they're better off.
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03-24-23, 10:49 AM
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It's not about right or wrong. It's only recently that tests proved that lower pressures could lower rolling resistance while improving ride quality. Instead of 15-17mm IW rims, we now have 19-25mm and up to 34mm road tires. If you can get a more comfortable ride and without losing speed, why not do it? I've been on 28-30mm tires with pressures in the 50-65 range since late 2020. I'm sold on modern tubeless tires and wider hookless rims. I just sold my first two sets of skinny 19mm hooked tubeless, in favor of 25mm hookless.
03-24-23, 11:05 AM
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I think the point is there won't be a study that includes 38mm tires at 60psi because it's beyond the range of what would be considered rational. When designing a comparison it doesn't make sense to include options that wouldn't be chosen. You won't see 23mm tires tested at 40psi either.
03-24-23, 11:23 AM
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03-24-23, 11:25 AM
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Sure, where "weigh enough" means 350 lbs. for rider plus bike. A little extrapolation indicates roughly 410 lbs. will get you to 60 psi.
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03-24-23, 02:28 PM
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That said, maybe there are instances where for loading touring this makes perfect sense and is not completely irrational. There aren't a lot of them, but there are some faster touring options out there, such as the Conti Grand Prix Urban or this one, but doesn't seem to be available any longer. BRR also mentions in the "Urban" review that 75psi on a 35mm tire is equivalent comfort to 100psi on a 25mm tire. 60psi on a 38mm -- doesn't seem that farfetched looked at from that perspective.
Came across this blurb here on a 37mm tire and it's referencing 90psi equivalents..
https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...ger-hyper-2016
"The Vittoria Voyager Hyper is pretty much a big road bike tire disguised as a touring bike tire. Rolling resistance at an air pressure of 90 psi is comparable to all-round road bike tires pumped up to 120 psi."
03-24-23, 02:38 PM
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Yeah.. a bit of elaboration on what weigh enough means :-) If it helps, Rene Herse lets you use 60psi at 255lbs.
That said, maybe there are instances where for loading touring this makes perfect sense and is not completely irrational. There aren't a lot of them, but there are some faster touring options out there, such as the Conti Grand Prix Urban or this one, but doesn't seem to be available any longer. BRR also mentions in the "Urban" review that 75psi on a 35mm tire is equivalent comfort to 100psi on a 25mm tire. 60psi on a 38mm -- doesn't seem that farfetched looked at from that perspective.
That said, maybe there are instances where for loading touring this makes perfect sense and is not completely irrational. There aren't a lot of them, but there are some faster touring options out there, such as the Conti Grand Prix Urban or this one, but doesn't seem to be available any longer. BRR also mentions in the "Urban" review that 75psi on a 35mm tire is equivalent comfort to 100psi on a 25mm tire. 60psi on a 38mm -- doesn't seem that farfetched looked at from that perspective.
03-24-23, 02:41 PM
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The first time I rode my gravel bike, I put 60psi in the tires (38mm). I quickly figured out that I don't want that much for that bike.
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03-24-23, 07:53 PM
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Yeah.. a bit of elaboration on what weigh enough means :-) If it helps, Rene Herse lets you use 60psi at 255lbs.
That said, maybe there are instances where for loading touring this makes perfect sense and is not completely irrational. There aren't a lot of them, but there are some faster touring options out there, such as the Conti Grand Prix Urban or this one, but doesn't seem to be available any longer. BRR also mentions in the "Urban" review that 75psi on a 35mm tire is equivalent comfort to 100psi on a 25mm tire. 60psi on a 38mm -- doesn't seem that farfetched looked at from that perspective.
Came across this blurb here on a 37mm tire and it's referencing 90psi equivalents..
https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...ger-hyper-2016
"The Vittoria Voyager Hyper is pretty much a big road bike tire disguised as a touring bike tire. Rolling resistance at an air pressure of 90 psi is comparable to all-round road bike tires pumped up to 120 psi."
That said, maybe there are instances where for loading touring this makes perfect sense and is not completely irrational. There aren't a lot of them, but there are some faster touring options out there, such as the Conti Grand Prix Urban or this one, but doesn't seem to be available any longer. BRR also mentions in the "Urban" review that 75psi on a 35mm tire is equivalent comfort to 100psi on a 25mm tire. 60psi on a 38mm -- doesn't seem that farfetched looked at from that perspective.
Came across this blurb here on a 37mm tire and it's referencing 90psi equivalents..
https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...ger-hyper-2016
"The Vittoria Voyager Hyper is pretty much a big road bike tire disguised as a touring bike tire. Rolling resistance at an air pressure of 90 psi is comparable to all-round road bike tires pumped up to 120 psi."
03-24-23, 08:10 PM
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And the numbers I used were just to suggest wide tires at low pressures. Since no study seems to exist, except apocryphally, comparing wide low pressure tires with 23s at 140, we’ll just have to leave it at that.
Last edited by smd4; 03-24-23 at 08:14 PM.
03-24-23, 08:16 PM
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i didn’t try to “demonstrate” anything. Why are you so insistent on mischaracterizing what i write? It’s like you have an agenda or something.
And the numbers i used were just to suggest wide tires at low pressures. Since no study seems to exist, except apocryphally, comparing wide low pressure tires with 23s at 140, we’ll just have to leave it at that.
And the numbers i used were just to suggest wide tires at low pressures. Since no study seems to exist, except apocryphally, comparing wide low pressure tires with 23s at 140, we’ll just have to leave it at that.
03-24-23, 08:18 PM
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I didn’t try to “demonstrate” anything. Why are you so insistent on mischaracterizing what I write? It’s like you have an agenda or something.
And the numbers I used were just to suggest wide tires at low pressures. Since no study seems to exist, except apocryphally, comparing wide low pressure tires with 23s at 140, we’ll just have to leave it at that.
And the numbers I used were just to suggest wide tires at low pressures. Since no study seems to exist, except apocryphally, comparing wide low pressure tires with 23s at 140, we’ll just have to leave it at that.
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03-24-23, 08:18 PM
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03-24-23, 08:20 PM
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03-24-23, 08:22 PM
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03-24-23, 08:22 PM
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03-24-23, 08:24 PM
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03-24-23, 08:25 PM
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