RiddleOfSteel

7-speeds out back is my preferred cassette/FW "low" limit as it gives enough for varied terrain. Chains are super cheap, which is always nice. 9- and 10-speed really is a sweet spot of plenty of fine tuning in gear selection for ups, downs, and levels of fatigue, but not so much that one needs newer wheels (11-speed compatible) or fussier STIs. And there are even 9- and 10-speed indexed downtube shifters! Campagnolo's 8/9/10-speed freehub and cassette 'standards' is the only real fly in the ointment that I see, once the old/new pull ratio is sorted. Those Ergos offer lovely shifting, even if they need rebuilding periodically. I'm pretty happy staying in the 7-11 speed range, and have enough cassettes to support that for quite some time.

Korina

It's not just road racing. Back when I was still on Facebook, I was served a Liv ad that basically said "crush your commute" or something equally violent. I mean, I'm riding to work not the Continental Divide Race. I'm with most of y'all; enjoy your ride, whatever that means to you. I'll be back here, enjoying the scenery. #partypace

MooneyBloke

The difficulty is that you're then dependent on a finite supply of wear parts unless there's a boutique manufacturer. While my shift systems are 2000 era, I had a devil of a time finding a replacement for a broken brake lever at a price I was willing to pay. Similar issues sourcing sew-up rims to service a wheel if there's an oops in my future. Will I always be able to find a compatible cassette, chain, or chainring? What about the major bearings?

Yes. I ride hard and often enough to wear things out even with careful maintenance.

Steel Charlie

I'm old. I like simple. Older bikes are simpler than new bikes. I like that.

Waiting at a stop light a guy 40-50 years younger than me pulled up alongside on a $8-10K Pinarello, looked over at the old Colnago Super and said, "Wow! That's a cool bike, man". And asked how old it was. Rode with me for a mile or so chatting and then vanished into the distance. I'm OK with that.

The Golden Boy 

Don't get me wrong, $1500 is not something I whip around all willy-nilly, however- figuring in the 1980s a $500 bike bought a decent mid-range bike. But $500 in 1985 is around $1400 now. So... kinda the same. Even in the 70s, a Trek TX500 mid level CrMo frame/fork would run around $148 and that would be about $700 now- without any other parts or braze ons.

smd4

My top-end Paramount cost me about $650, as I recall, in around 1986. I was working part-time at Radio Shack, and going to school the other time. Somehow, on my minimum wage (plus paltry commission--I'm a terrible salesman), I was still able to afford that frame. Clothed it in Shimano 600 EX, and eventually replaced all that with full Dura Ace. Admittedly, by that time I was working at the bike shop, still part time, and could get parts at a discount (but not cost).

I don't know...Maybe a kid today working part-time at a minimum-wage paying job, going to school part time, would be able to afford a top-end bike with full Dura Ace Di2.

Piff 

I think for the foreseeable future, the following will be ubiquitous: 700c rim brake rims, 10 speed cassettes/chains (non-Cues), and some sort of 68mm threaded bottom bracket/crankset. Pair that with friction shifters and you can keep an old steel frame going for decades. High quality mechanical indexed shifting for road bikes is definitely on the way out unless some 3rd party company really steps up. Maybe Campy keeps the flame alive for a while? Dunno. If you want to hold onto old chainrings standards, I think 130 bcd chainrings will be available for pretty much forever, 144bcd maybe because of the SS/fixed crowd. 110/74 shold be good for a long time due to the compact and sub-compact cranksets...the others BCDs will just become too hard to find in a decade or two. As far as bearings, I assume you're talking about catridge bearings? Or maybe 1" threaded headsets as a product?

I think one of the harder things is freewheels. Modern freewheels are just going to get worse and worse, and what's left of the good stock from before keeps dwindling.

Cougrrcj

I'm a 'Fred'. and stuck in the '70s-'80s. I ride steel-framed bikes, and only one of those is 700c (the rest being 27").

I was introduced to cycling (as opposed to just riding a bike) in 1976, when I was attending Ohio State and my one roommate had a Viscount Aerospace Pro -- yes, the infamous 'death-fork' bike. At the time, I was riding my 34-pound all-steel Fuji 'Special Tourer', and quickly upgraded to the 26.5-pound Fuji S-10S that I happily rode for the next 35+ years. That Fuji at 26.5 pounds was from an era when a same-year Campy-equipped Schwinn Paramount was ~22 pounds on tubulars!

Then I joined BF.net... I was corrupted. I went 'semi-weight-weenie' by rebuilding a '84 Univega Viva Sport to (same year) near-Miyata 710 specs. Then I found a deal on my '86 Miyata 710. Even that got an upgraded (and lighter) wheelset. I'm EXTREMELY happy with my 22.4-pound Miyata! However, I personally am carrying about 60 pounds more than I should, so realistically, what good would another few pounds off the bike give me????

Oh, NONE of my bikes have indexed shifting - all of my road bikes have SunTour barcons just because that's what I've used for the past 45+years, although the SunTour Cyclone rear derailleurs are 'backwards' to my old Fuji's VGT-Luxe!

NONE of my bikes has a Cassette - all are 6-speed freewheels.

Yep, I'm a Luddite

MooneyBloke

For me, it's a matter of keeping my Mooneys with early 2000s Campy 10 systems with quill stems and box section sew-ups healthy. I worry about not being able to service my ergo levers, get replacement rims, find a 10s 53t with the de-ship pin in the right place for the hidden bolt. I hope 135 bcd is also there for the duration. Even the headset on one is tricky as it had no room for spacers. At present, Chris King is the only guy who makes something with sufficiently small stack height, and if he folds up his shop, my only hope is not brinelling. Having dealt with slipping friction levers and genuinely liking being able to shift standing never taking my eyes off what's in front of me, I really do not want to abandon my Ergo controls. They do what I want for shifting better than my DT Campy levers ever did. Let's not even talk about the headache I had finding a replacement brake lever blade (EC-RE447) to replace one that broke in a crash.

seypat

My son is the example you cite. Going to school/working part time, living at home and commuting. He made just enough last year to have to file a tax return. When he rides a bike, it's one of my old steelies.

smd4

And yet I've been told that a $15,000 top-of-the-line modern bike is as easily obtainable by young folks today as my Paramount was to me back then.

base2 

The subtext of a lot of pinnacle performance marketing jargon is you'd have to be an ultra-macho bad-a$$ to brave the roads on a cars level. The sense that you are a fish out of water, in a hostile environment that hates you & wishes you were dead for the soul infraction of existing in the same space is something every road cyclist I have ever met has experienced. The personality of the person that continues to ride on the road is either inclined towards fierce competition or quickly discovers he better up his game if only for no other reason than to lessen the speed differential between bubba in the truck doing a punish pass.

The marketing is tailored to the personality type that engages in that activity. In short, the activity becomes a sport when for whatever reason an improvement in performance is necessary to participate.











______________________________


I remember when Mrs. Base2 took her first ride since leaving the cul-de-sac at age 12. We rode on the road to the local bike trail 0.7 miles from our house. For 3 miles the bike trail is sandwiched between a noisy freeway and a noisy major arterial before it goes on the road shoulder as a designated bike route for about a half mile with some flat but mostly uphill to cross the freeway where it meets a 4 way stop and the segregated trail can be accessed again. The stress of coasting down hill in with the cars to get to the trail & the half mile with the cars, & the 3% climb, & the narrow overpass over the noise of the freeway was more than she could take. She was balling, inconsolable, & shaking. She was paralyzed with fear. So we sat. I waited & offered energy bars & sports drink while she worked it out.

She got over it. She upped her performance envelope as much as it took for her to be confident against her "competition." The cars & weak clueless drivers, and me. She does "crush her commute"...all 12mph of it. That's fine. I'm proud of her.

Road cycling has awoken her spirit of active ownership of self. This is what the pinnacle performance marketing speaks to.

She has some 15,000 miles under her belt. Good.

RB1-luvr

thanks to the OP for posting that article. Interesting.

MooneyBloke

Citation needed. I don't think any sane rider imagines even in fantasy that any particular bike is going to make themselves less vulnerable to poor drivers unless it's a variety that removes them from the road altogether. There have been far too many stories of far-better-than-merely-competent racers getting injured and killed by aggressive and reckless drivers. The latest crabon fibber or DI2 doesn't change this. I think it's more an appeal to machismo and Walter Mitty-dom than anything else.

Maybe not a case of racers here, but the 2018 case of Charles Picket in Kalamazoo suddenly came to mind about vulnerability on the road. The bozo drove into a group ride killing five and injuring four others. I'm pretty sure I've ridden that stretch when I attended Western.

My last experience on the road suggests that the roads in the Grand Traverse area are getting far more dangerous. Perhaps I'm odd, but I'm absolutely sure that a new bike won't change the hazard.

MooneyBloke

I think the only way that happens, aside from having rather affluent parents, is if the kid works at a bike shop, and the owner gives a ridiculous discount on what was the superbike of last year.

base2 

Irrationality of internal mindset and emotional indignation needs no external citation.

Maybe you feel that the road is the sole domain of cars & accept with out reservation secondary status. I can totally see that for you any marketing geared towards an improvement of self would be wasted effort. That marketing tact simply does not apply to you. You identify with a different group with different motivations.

Fear not! There is no shortage of handlebar bags & unique accessories tailored to party pace & cracking a beer on a rocky outcrop with friends to show you.

The high performance competition marketing speaks to the mindset & self image of many. That's why it exists. Whether or not the target is actual high performance is immaterial.

It's all marketing, man. It turns out that "Gravel" or better identified as counter-culture rejection of all that is Lance is a popular target audience right now.

MooneyBloke

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I think you're completely mistaken about the target and nature of the marketing.

You are also very much mistaken about me as a rider. I am a performance rider though I do not race anymore, and my luggage, such as it is, rides in my jersey pocket or is the spare tire and inflator tethered under my seat with a toe strap.

Last, if you make a strong claim, don't be surprised if others put the onus on you for evidence.

base2 

Well, if you think that marketing isn't tailored to the internal motivations or common experiences of the target audience (rational or not), I'm not sure what to say.

MooneyBloke

I'm not disputing that; I'm disputing that you've correctly identified those motivations. (Competition on the road with cars) Again, you have to give evidence for your claim. I'm not going to accept it at face value.

base2 

Reactivity to hostility is a real thing. Anger or indignation can be a very powerful motivating force. These are the people that remain. The proud contrarian bent on a personal vendetta of being better than anyone or anything.

Most people see the hostile road environment and choose to not engage or participate.

The "racer" sees that and is undeterred. The internal monologue being spoken to by the marketing jargon goes something like this: "The car does not own the road. I am equal. No. Better than equal. I must assert myself. Both physically & mentally."

The pool of actual road racers is small. The pool of undeterred roadies is bigger. The marketing language speaks to them. "Must have better, faster tool."

For everyone else a recreational activity bike is what sells actually sells in bulk.

Never met a roadie that just got punish passed by a bro-truck? Leprechauns & rainbows is not what is on his mind.

The Golden Boy 

In this thread?

smd4

No, in one long since forgotten.

Piff 

Hoping that the bike industry doesn't change is a game of disappointment. If you like mechanical brifters, well it's time to stock up on ones that aren't made of carbon fiber. As for friction shifters slipping, since I think it's clear I can assume you can afford them based on the components you like, get the Simplex Retrofrictions. They can't slip by design. Or any one of the ratcheting shifters. And I have zero worries that 700c rim brake rims will go the way of the dodo. 27" rims are still fairly widely available, and those stopped being relevant by the mid/late 80s more or less. 700c rim brake rims will continue to exist. Maybe not top-top-top-tier, but pretty good ones for a long time. There are sitll NOS and other fairly good quality ones from the 80s bumping around.

Don't mean to be brusque, and I'm right there with you with not enjoying how the market is changing, but you just gotta roll with the punches of how the market is moving. I just don't think you'll have a happy time trying to dig your heels in and pining over wanting to use fragile and uncommon components from the early 2000s for the forseeable future.

Me? I'm sticking with friction mostly, and having fun with mechanical brifters until they become so obsolete they are either prohibitively expensive or low-quality, like how high-quality freewheels have become. I'm reminded of a phrase that's bandied about in the camera world: 'Marry the lens, date the body'. For bikes, 'Marry the frame, date the components'. Except for friction shifting, that's forever

The Golden Boy 

We are a bunch of high rollers here- big spenders with big wallets throwin' down big bank.