willum44 

Does spreading the rear drop outs to 130mm detract from the value of vintage frames.

Jeff Neese

It depends on how valuable it is to begin with. It's only original once.

unterhausen

I think that if it was rare enough to worry about, you would already know the answer to your question. But it still isn't likely to detract much from the value of most frames.

willum44 

The frameset is a Merckx SLX Corsa Extra in VG condition. 1986/87

Jeff Neese

A lot of it has to do with who did it and how. If it was done by a knowledgable framebuilder with all the right tools and experience, that's a lot different than somebody bending up their frame using 2x4s on their garage floor, and aligning it using a string. I've passed on a number of otherwise very desirable frames once I saw that they had been spread.

But hey, if you've got an old Schwinn Traveler and you just have to have more gears, go ahead and bend it. Nobody cares. But leave the valuable ones alone.

Jeff Neese

Why on earth would you want to do anything to that frame? Yes, bending it will reduce it's value. Don't do it!

Robvolz 

If I saw that frame, in the condition it has been described, and the rear was spread….

I would walk

icemilkcoffee 

Don't do it.

romperrr 

Every buyer is different so take that into consideration. The subject frame is certainly a high-quality, desirable frame, however, not of the extreme rarity that would offend me, and I suspect most buyers, if the rear was spread to 130, I would reserve that sentiment only for unique, non-production or extremely limited production frames and mostly for frames prior to 1980. Consider also that spreading the rear triangle on a steel frame is a fairly simple and some might suggest reversible process and that your frame, being a "race-y" frame, might even be desirable to have that modification.

Just my two cents, freely given.

dddd

If it were to create a visibly sharp bend next to a bridge reinforcement, then yes it might devalue a valuable frame.

Use of proper tools can reduce that possibility versus simply applying spreading force at the dropouts.
Proper tools also reduce the chance of popping a bridge joint loose, or of cracking the paint, though I have experienced neither of those problems myself after spreading literally dozens of frames (and correcting an even greater number of fork blades that were out of alignment).

Above all, do NOT use the force against one dropout to push out the other, since your intended 2+2mm spreading will most likely result in most of the spreading occurring along only one chainstay and seatstay.

The seatstays go along for the ride, the real work is in bending the chainstays, ONE SIDE AT A TIME, measuring progress against the other dropout that you are NOT applying "spreading" force to.

I've done dozens of frames using my feet and hands while atop a bike laying on it's side, but always with a stack of thin boards under the dropout that is being forced downward by my foot. The boards limit the bending travel to prevent wildly over-spreading the chainstay. This is a strenuous, repetitive process arriving at the correct, measured change in the chainstay. I have to position the pedal correctly on the deck, keep the handlebar perpendicular to the deck with one hand and hold down the seatpost or other part of the bike with my other foot in order to stay balanced over the bike and keep the bike more or less flat to the ground.
The above method is based on the assumption that the existing alignment is properly centered with the main triangle.

Again though, if this is a higher-end frame, or if you lack the balance, stamina and feel for bending metal tubing, using proper tools with the guidance of a skilled framesmith seems like a better way to go than the back-yard methods.

Just don't get me started on the infamous "threaded rod" method, which I am claiming has "disastrous pain in the ass" written all over it.

C9H13N 

I’d rather buy a frame that somebody spread with a 2x4 in their garage, than one with gross looking paint “touch up” all over it. Weird how one of these things gets so much stick compared to the other.

iab

Bend it. You will always find a buyer for a bike with a modern drive train.

bikingshearer 

A great deal depends on what kind of bike you ultimately want to end up with.

If you want a rider, will the gearing with the current spread suffice for your area and the kind of terrain you will the riding you will do? Then leave it alone.

Do you want to ride it regularly and need 8+ cogs on the back? Do you expect to keep it and ride it for a long time? Are you sure? If so, pay a pro to spread it for you. If you personally have never spread a frame before, this is not the one you want to learn on. Make sure the person who does it has the right tools and plenty of (successful) experience.

On the other hand, are you looking for a wall hanger or a garage queen or a coffee-run bike? (I do not mean to be derogatory here; those are perfectly valid reasons to own a classic bike.) Do you expect to sell it in a year or two or three? Then leave it alone.

Are you not sure? (My definition of "not sure" includes not having ridden it for at least several months to get a solid idea of how it rides and make sure it does not disappoint as a rider.) Then leave it alone unless and until you are sure.

I have had several frames spread, including from 120mm to 130mm, all by pros, all with no problems. This includes some frames that others here would never ever do that to. I am not inherently anti-spreading, although some here are. But I think you should not do it lightly and should not do it on something you don't plan on riding a lot.

Caveat: There are some frames that even I would say should never be spread. A Confente is one. A verified Coppi-owned and ridden bike is another. There are others, things of that level of rarity and/or verified provenance. I'm no Merckx expert, but my sense is that yours in not one of these. But it is special enough that it deserves to be either (a) ridden a lot or (b) left alone.

That's my opinion, and it's worth exactly what you are paying for it.

dddd

The Merckx frames have seemed to me to be of the more robust among contemporaries, often weighing a touch more than others.
So I would expect that quite a good bit of force will be needed, also the case with some other SL-tubed bikes I've had to spread.
Being a lightweight myself, I have struggled with those.

The Corsa EXTRA model being a top-tier offering, better to let a pro handle it imo. It's only 2mm each side, so not going to make any visible sharp bends in the chainstays.
A lot of us would just force in a 130mm wheel, which is quite easy using a Shimano 74xx 8s hubset with it's conical locknuts.

Bending just 1mm each side to 128mm might best satisfy all future possibilities and further reduce any chances of damage/issues.

rccardr 

I use a 130mm rear hub ( currently a DA 7403 but prefiously a White Ind T2), in my ‘84 Merckx Corsa Pro SLX. It has not been spread, so still measures 126mm at rest.
No problem inserting the hub into the drops. None.
Why spread it when it’s not necessary?

Oh, and for all the naysayers out there, this bike has over 10,000km on it with a 130 hub with no issues. So, there’s that.

smd4

Maybe. It’s your bike. If you want to do it yourself there are good YouTube videos on “cold setting.”

It’s not rocket science. You should have the proper tools like a frame alignment gauge and dropout alignment tools, or access to them, and knowledge of how to use them if you do everything yourself, to do the job right.

I’m not planning to sell my bike, so the “value” means little to me. If you’re more concerned about hurting the frame’s value than building the bike you want, then reconsider.

I’m putting in my will that my bike will never be sold to folks like Jeff Neese, icemilkcoffee or Robvolz, and anyone else scared about a 2 mm per side stretch.

smd4

So… you’ve never tried it?

Check.

gugie 

2mm per side ain't much. If you want to use a drivetrain that needs 130mm spacing, no problem. @dddd gives you the option of spreading to 128, which is only 1mm per side in case you're really freaked out about it. If/when you sell it in the future, I highly doubt anyone would notice.

Fun fact: it'll bend back later, no one will know, and it won't hurt anything. If you think of it as a cat with 9 lives, going from 126 to 130 probably uses up one of them.

Another fun fact: I rarely find a vintage production frame from Europe that's exactly 120, 126 or 130mm spacing, they're often a few mm off.

But do take it to someone who knows what they're doing.

But hey, I'm just the Bike Butcher of Portland. Here's a list of well known framebuilders that I know for a fact have spread vintage frames:

Ed Litton
Peter Weigle
Brian Chapman

icemilkcoffee 

The question that needs to be asked is- WHY? Do you want to run brifters? Slap a 7 speed freewheel on there and run 2x7 brifters. Done. Next.
Or maybe you must have Campy. In that case slap the same 7 speed freewheel on there and run the 8 speed Campy ergo brifters and derailleurs.
Oh, you must have more than 7 speed? So put a 7 speed freehub hub in there and you can have up to 9 speed (9 cogs out of a 10 speed cassette).
Or maybe you really, really must have 10 speeds. In that case just take a normal regular 8-10 speed hub and eliminate 4mm from the left side lock nut, and then run an off-centered rim to compensate. Typically these OC rims are offset 2mm- exactly the amount you need when you lose 4mm from the NDS.

dddd

So many possibilities, and the choice usually starts with "what do we have at hand".

I really like the newer SRAM 7s cassettes having a 12-32t spread, and it's a great-looking chromed stack for little coin.
Shimano so liked SRAM's approach that they copied the unusual "semi-mega" sort of ratio staging exactly. But Shimano's isn't pretty.

And one can use any Shimano or SRAM 10s (not 8s and not 9s) cassette starting with a 12t cog on the earlier (pre-compact) 7s, 126mm HG freehubs (just by nesting an 11t lockring into the recess of the 12t smallest cog), as shown below on my "126mm-for-life" aluminum Klien:

gugie 

I have (a long time ago). One side moved, the other didn't, so the wheel ended up off center. I chuck the bottom bracket on a big vise, measure the ID, check center using a Park Frame Alignment Gauge, and bend accordingly. Finish off with dropout alignment tools, and Bob's your uncle. You can do this on a frame table for a modicum increase in accuracy, or less accuracy using the string method.

Camilo

Why is that? Perfectly good results can be had with the methods you describe, and you certainly coulnt tell who or how it was cold-set by looking at it, assuming it was done right by either the amateur or pro.

Don't disagree at all with this. Like someone said, if you want an original build, you don't want a spread rear, it's only original once. But I wonder if your passing decision was simply because it was spread (and you wanted original spacing), or because of the method used (i.e. amateur vs pro), or just poor results of a spread regardless of who did it?

FWIW, I have a mid-80s, fairly obscure, but very, very nice Italian frameset (Sannino). I didn't have any desire to build it up as original, but went Campy 8 speed at the time. I did a home shop cold set spread from 126 to 140 pretty much the way dddd describes above, but it was (technically, but not mentally or physically!) easy to do that, technically easy to square up the drop outs, and technically easy to check the frame alignment while in process to equally spread vis-a-vis the rest of the frame. What more is necessary? The thing looks and rides perfectly.

My next bike will be a 70s-80s as-original (or able to be built up period correct), probably British or American bike. So when I'm looking for that, I'll probably pass on modified spacing. OTOH, I've heard that spread frames can be put back to original in most? cases.

Insidious C. 

I've noticed many SLX frames don't have a bridge between the chain stays, but instead have a gusseted BB shell. If your frame lacks a chain stay bridge it might be prudent to make a simple jig to resist the bending forces and protect the shell.

retlaw53 

I like this option and I have most of the parts to try it.

gugie 

Not sure what kind of jig you're referring to? I'm imagining somehow clamping the chain stays just behind the BB shell?