livedarklions

I don't think we're disagreeing at all. Just that the big vehicle thing seems to be something I encounter throughout New England, and I've never noticed anything special about Asian-manufactured vehicles as you describe.

livedarklions

I have no objection to article links as thread starters, but I can't help but note that you're generally as big a thread cop as anyone. I've been on the receiving end of enough of your "that doesn't belong here" stuff to pretend otherwise.

So how about instead of doing your usual "your buddies" bit, you actually comment on the OP article? You're actually a good commenter on methodological issues, you appear to know some stuff. I posted my take on the study, what's yours? I'm genuinely interested. I don't think this "dehumanization" concept is holding much water, what do you think?

plumberroy

I was out today test riding a mountain bike to hybrid/gravel/cruiser conversion at a park just 20 miles from downtown and you can tell a difference in drivers attitude it's very localized. 4 wheel drive pick that's shiny without a scratch chances of a jerk behind the wheel is high. Same truck except muddy and beat up probably okay driver . I just telling you what I see locally

I-Like-To-Bike

OK, since you asked nicely (instead of your usual...) and your interest in my opinion is genuine unlike the fellow who falsely claims to be so interested in the OP's opinion -

I agree with you that the so-called study methodology is for poop for the reasons you previously cited, and the conclusions about "effect of safety attire on perceptions of cyclist dehumanisation" are less than worthless as far as determining if cyclists' apparel has any effect on driver behavior or response to actual bicyclists encountered on the road. I'd presume the study's authors had an hypothesis and took what ever steps they could to get the results they sought and then used their imagination to extrapolate those phony baloney results about dehumanization to actual cycling scenarios.

Gresp15C

Indeed, I suspect that society as a whole has gotten more aggressive. But other factors may be playing a role as well. Traffic is more congested, meaning there are more occasions when cyclists find themselves in the fray. Together, these things raise everybody's frustration level. Cars are bigger and more powerful. It's hard to separate cause and effect.

And it's not particularly surprising that types of cars are related to the character of the driver -- cars are sold by appealing to social identity.

veganbikes

Sorry, bud but not "false" I am actually curious but yeah you believe whatever you need to believe to help yourself sleep at night. You couldn't understand my original post so I get why you would think what you think.

livedarklions

My opinion is that this "hypothesis" is part of a long line of wrongheaded thinking that assumes that hostile and/or careless driving is somehow caused by a reaction to something cyclists are doing or wearing. Even in this thread, we see people translating this to be about hostility to kitted cyclists, ignoring the obvious disconnect between the kind of kit they're talking about and the vests and type of helmet the survey was asking about.


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Trakhak

A staggering percentage of the cars on the road in the U.S. are Asian, whether built there or here. This characterization is pretty close to drivers' perception that most bike riders are inconsiderate jerks.

I-Like-To-Bike

In addition there is the transference by some posters of this "study's" conclusion about bicyclist clothing's alleged effects on drivers' "dehumanization of bicyclists," to an assumed relationship between type of vehicle driven and its drivers' attitude toward cyclists, if not direct impact on level of unsafe driving in the presence of bicyclists.

livedarklions

Not really, I just said that it's something I've observed, purely anecdotal. I make no claims that it even has anything to do with the "study" which, as I've said, really ended up being a survey of which outfit people thought looked more insectoid. I also make no claims that my observations (clearly unreliable, btw) would have any practical import.

The issue with assuming that it's something some cyclists are doing that's triggering motorists is that we've had people post proudly about how while they're driving, they've yelled at cyclists out of their own car windows that the cyclist's perceived misdeed (usually some version of taking the lane legally) is somehow making other cyclists less safe. Outside of the fact that such yelling behavior would be a textbook example of distracted driving and therefore proclaiming that a safety promotion is clearly hypocritical, it's also justified by a really crappy hypothesis. When it comes to issues like lane positioning, clothing, etc., I think it's a hell of a lot better for individual riders to do what they think is safest in any given situation, and trying to speculate on how some motorist about whom I know nothing is going to perceive that action and store a grudge if they don't like it is a completely stupid distraction from the actual task at hand.

greatbasin

Which image looks less human? Like maybe it's a generative AI image of a human instead of a photograph? I heard you can tell by looking at the hands and fingers. Wait, is that what this is about?

Didn't Ray Bradbury write about the dehumanization of pedestrians in a motorcar culture in 1953? I'm sure it began with the popularization of the motorcar decades before, but it was at least recognized in popular culture by the 50's. "The Pedestrian" was published in 1951, but it wasn't as influential as Fahrenheit 451.

I am not convinced this really has anything to do with bicycling, but that it is a feature of automotive culture that dehumanizes pedestrians, cyclists, skateboarders, and any non-automotive traffic alike. The only "safety gear" that would make a difference is being in another cage. So if this is an argument against helmets, I'm not buying it. I don't have to be persuaded against helmet mandates. I don't think you should have to wear one, but that I would be a fool not to.

work4bike

Did the study look into motorists seeing motorcyclists as less human when they wear a helmet? Maybe that's why so many motorcyclists in Florida don't wear helmets

Daniel4

Considering what drivers currently do when pedestrians are crossing in the crosswalks, treating cyclists as less than human doesn't seem to make much of a difference.

But consider if instead of pedestrians walking in the crosswalk it was a city slow moving street cleaning vehicle, I'm sure drivers would give it the right of way instead of cutting it off or racing in front of it.

Calsun

I remember all the rubbish when wearing a seat belt became manatory. There would be comments about how dangerous seat belts were because if the car stopped for some reason on a railroad track and for some reason the buckle mechanism jammed the occupant would die. Go to a wrecking yard and look at all the head sized holes in windshields on the passenger side and the wisdom of wearing a seat belt is obvious.