PeteHski

In general I agree, but R7000 vs R8000 is pretty much just about weight if you ignore the badge prestige. I’ve owned both and mixed and matched them. There’s no significant objective, measurable difference.

PeteHski

Just crazy talk. Par for any discussion involving a weight weenie.

Maelochs

Lots of silly debates here.

Other than a few hundred grams, no one here has any actual evidence---experimental evidence--which explains why one group set is superior or inferior to another. Is the fit and finish really better on the Ultegra? Really? Owning both I cannot see it. Ids there a functional difference? No one has been able to quantify it.

As a person who owns heavy and light bikes, I can say that once I am out riding, I enjoy the ride just as much an any of my bikes.

There is way more than numbers involved here .... in fact, the actual physical function plays almost no part. it is all about status and perception, including perceived status. What is "good," is essentially the debate .... and this multi-thousand-year-old debate .... is almost certainly going to be ultimately decided in this thread, right?

PeteHski

Don’t come here armed with logic and reason my friend. The mindset of a true weight weenie or badge status chaser will be undeterred by any of that.

For $300 you get “Ultegra” prestige, an insignificant weight saving and perhaps a slim chance of an assploding crank arm!

Jughed

Why?

I can afford a Time with full on Dura Ace DI 2 and all the bells and whistles. And IMHO, that is absolutely the best bike on the market today. 10k +/-

I choose to ride a 2k bike with an aluminum frame and 105. We are talking an 8k differential in price.

Would the Time last longer? Will the Dura Ace last longer, be more durable than the 105? No.

The overwhelming majority of cyclists are not racers, not chasing KOM's, not really concerned with being the best at their local club ride - so what does that 8k really do? Nothing.

What would be the justification, other than "I want it" (which is valid) for simply buying the most expensive thing you can?

How bout - buy a bike that fits well, with a level of parts that perform and last for 10-20-30k miles++, and don't simply spend crazy money on parts that in the end, wont really do anything for you?

Want vs need. Nothing at all wrong with the want - but it;s not what people need.

smd4

You're right. I take it back. Buy the absolute worst parts on the market. $ave lot$!

smd4

I run (old) Dura Ace, so I really don't have a dog in this fight. But the Dura Ace fit and finish, especially the 25th Anniversary stuff--is miles beyond 105 or Ultegra. Even if you "cannot see it."

Jughed

Aah, the all or nothing argument.

How bout you consider what I said - buy parts with known levels of quality and durability, stuff that you know will last just as long, and work just as well as other products and cost a fraction...

I'm not saying to run out and buy a euro bike - I am saying that a lower mid-tier, 2k road bike with 105 or Sram equivalent, will work just as well and last just as long, if not longer, than its high dollar sister components.

You don't need to buy the "best components you can afford". At a certain price point, those "best" components do nothing but drain your bank account.

Again, want vs need.

smd4

I want the best components I can afford, and I recommend the same for others. Better?

PeteHski

Obviously you wouldn’t know, but modern day 105, Ultegra and DuraAce are much closer in form and function. To the point where it doesn’t really make any difference which you choose. Especially R7000 vs R8000, which is what this thread is about. Functionally, R7000 is also far better than your old DuraAce, although you wouldn’t know that either.

genejockey 

Hold on there. I have run 7410 and 7800 DA, and R7000 and R8000. It's close, but R7000 <7410<7800=R8000, IME. The degree to which the shifting is just *click* and you're in the next gear on all of them is amazing, but both the DAs have it over R7000.

smd4

Nope. And don't care to know. You couldn't pay me to put any of that ugly-ass crap on my bike, LOL!

Sy Reene

Or maybe the same history, but this was pre-internet bike forums, right

KJ43

My understanding of the current 12 spd versions of 105 and Ultegra is that functionally the biggest difference is the lack of the hood buttons that connect to a cycling computer, the satellite shifter ports, and (most importantly) the absence of servo wave for the braking for the 105 levers.

I have GRX on my gravel bike which is basically Ultegra level and has servowave. My road bike has a version of 105 without servo wave. To me servo wave makes a difference in brake pad clearance and a noticeable difference in modulation. I'm very much interested in the newer improved brake clearance and feel that I've heard about in the newer 12spd groups and plan on upgrading my road bike first and eventually when the newer GRX 12 spd comes out my gravel bike next.

I'm basing this on the spec listed on BetterShifting (105 ST-R7170) and that the newer 12 speed 105 levers are not in Shimano's listed Servo Wave compatible components on their page (SERVOWAVE ACTION). It is interesting that the page lists the 11spd 105 5800 Series as being servo wave compatible but not the newer 12spd.

Anyone please correct me if I'm wrong on this as it can be difficult to get solid information on servo wave without really going down an internet research rabbit hole.

jadmt

I am sure I would have been more than satisfied with the 105 and I know for certain I will be more than satisfied with the Ultegra and never once will I look back on the purchase and wish I would have went with the 105 so that is a win for me. heck on my current bike I am running a bar end shifter in friction mode.

tomato coupe

105 vs Ultegra. Is it worth $300 more for Ultegra?

No, absolutely not. The small weight difference doesn't matter.

PeteHski

I respect your opinion and I know you have both new and old bikes in your fleet so you get to ride them back-to-back more than most.

By “functionally” I was thinking more about number of gears and gear range. For example DuraAce was a non-starter for me with it’s limited cassette range compared to Ultegra/105, now finally rectified with the latest 12-speed DA.

I find shift quality is more down to drivetrain cleanliness and cable maintenance than 105 v Ultegra v DuraAce. But it’s all pretty moot when modern shifting is so good that you just take it for granted at 105 level or above.

tomato coupe

105 vs Ultegra. Is it worth $300 more for Ultegra?

Yes, it's absolutely worth the extra $300.

genejockey 

This "Both Side-ism" will be the death of us.

genejockey 

105 is the Groupset Of The People, whereas Utegra is Schroedinger's Groupset - simultaneously worth it and not worth it, until you open the box.

And install it.

jonathanf2

Why not mix-n-match? Unless you absolutely need matching components. I run both 105 and Ultegra on my road bike. I do the same with GRX 800 and 600/400 components on my gravel bike.

datlas 

georges1

Nice touch of sarcasm but anyway the many problems with some dura ace and ultegra series is real and happened recently. As for glued on cranks at a certain price point it becomes a no and unacceptable.

jadmt

I hope I generate enough power to break an ultegra arm..bragging rights for sure.

genejockey 

Ah. This is why I take a "Horse for courses" approach to bike choice. My usual midweek ride is about 24 miles with 1000 feet of climbing, with no sustained climbs > about 2-3%. ANY of my bikes work well for that.

Sunday rides are about 60 miles with about 3300 feet of climbing, with at least one sustained half mile at about 6%, so while I DO ride every one of my bikes at least once on that route, I prefer the ones with at least a 39x30. That includes the 7410/7800 mixed groupset bike.

Sometimes I throw in an extra 1500 feet over 3-4 mile climb, and for that I prefer the three with lower gears than the 39x30.