Bad behavior and witty insight...
10-05-23, 07:54 PM
#26
For The Fun of It
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Louisissippi Coast
Posts: 5,852
Bikes: Lynskey GR300, Lynskey Backroad, Litespeed T6, Lynskey MT29, Burley Duet
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2135 Post(s)
Liked 1,647 Times
in
829 Posts
No they are not the same. Excepting hands free talk to text, I don't know anyone who can text without looking at their phone. While having a phone or an in person conversation is a distraction, it can be done without taking your eyes off the road.
What people here complain about when they complain about texting drivers is drivers who are so immersed in whatever it is they are doing with their devices that they do things like drift out of lane and go slow in the passing lane.
That's really a simple truth, and no amount of obstinance on your part can make it false.
What people here complain about when they complain about texting drivers is drivers who are so immersed in whatever it is they are doing with their devices that they do things like drift out of lane and go slow in the passing lane.
That's really a simple truth, and no amount of obstinance on your part can make it false.
Last edited by Paul Barnard; 10-06-23 at 04:49 AM.
Likes For Paul Barnard:
10-05-23, 08:32 PM
#27
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 4,811
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1591 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,020 Times
in
572 Posts
In Florida it is legal to talk on the phone while driving, but illegal to text. There are still a pretty fair number of states in the US where this is the case.
Likes For jon c.:
10-06-23, 06:21 AM
#28
Newbie
Thread Starter
It seems in discussions about bicyclists rolling through stops and red lights that the remarks most often include "without looking." I contend that there's no way for the majority of observers to determine that. If it was as common as it is purported to be, it'd be reflected in the fatality statistics. It's not. It's probably best to speak from of position of certainty rather than conjecture. Anything wrong with that?
10-06-23, 06:50 AM
#29
Newbie
Thread Starter
I read an article once that claimed children exhibit more risk avoidance than adults. The proposed basis for this was that while risky behaviors increase the probability of something bad happening, the overall probability that something bad happens remains low. The cumulative lack of negative consequences while engaging in risky behavior gives a false sense of security, thus increasing the engagement of risky behavior over time.
And no... texting on a cell phone while driving is not the same as talking on the cell phone while driving. And shaving while driving is not the same as putting on make up while driving. Huh... I forgot what point I was trying to make...
And no... texting on a cell phone while driving is not the same as talking on the cell phone while driving. And shaving while driving is not the same as putting on make up while driving. Huh... I forgot what point I was trying to make...
10-06-23, 10:21 AM
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Toronto, CANADA
Posts: 6,204
Bikes: ...a few.
Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2012 Post(s)
Liked 409 Times
in
235 Posts
Rolling through a red light is situational. At 6 am where there is little traffic on the road, rolling up to a red light when there are no other cars around it is certainly safer than waiting for the green light and traffic stopped. I certainly would not endorse the idea of running red lights with regular traffic, but given the choice between crossing a road against a red light with no cars in sight and crossing a green light with traffic, I'll take the former.
10-06-23, 12:48 PM
#32
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,974
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,536 Times
in
1,045 Posts
10-06-23, 02:31 PM
#33
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mississauga/Toronto, Ontario canada
Posts: 8,721
Bikes: I have 3 singlespeed/fixed gear bikes
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4227 Post(s)
Liked 2,488 Times
in
1,286 Posts
In fact it includes using any type of screen which is not directly related to driving. Example would be using a lap top computer to browse internet, do online shopping, play video games, watch you tube videos while driving.
10-06-23, 02:36 PM
#34
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mississauga/Toronto, Ontario canada
Posts: 8,721
Bikes: I have 3 singlespeed/fixed gear bikes
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4227 Post(s)
Liked 2,488 Times
in
1,286 Posts
Agree 100% on this one...That's what I've been doing for years. I learned after many years of commuting that sometimes it's safer to twist or break the law than to follow every letter of the law.
10-06-23, 02:43 PM
#35
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mississauga/Toronto, Ontario canada
Posts: 8,721
Bikes: I have 3 singlespeed/fixed gear bikes
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4227 Post(s)
Liked 2,488 Times
in
1,286 Posts
It seems in discussions about bicyclists rolling through stops and red lights that the remarks most often include "without looking." I contend that there's no way for the majority of observers to determine that. If it was as common as it is purported to be, it'd be reflected in the fatality statistics. It's not. It's probably best to speak from of position of certainty rather than conjecture. Anything wrong with that?
10-09-23, 08:54 PM
#36
Happy banana slug
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Arcata, California, U.S., North America, Earth, Saggitarius Arm, Milky Way
Posts: 3,696
Bikes: 1984 Araya MB 261, 1992 Specialized Rockhopper Sport, 1993 Hard Rock Ultra, 1994 Trek Multitrack 750, 1995 Trek Singletrack 930
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1533 Post(s)
Liked 1,530 Times
in
917 Posts
Congratulations on taking charge of your health! 
I enjoy riding early in the morning to avoid rush hour traffic. Double edged sword but at least there are less cars to keep an eye on.
I was on the road. I had the green light. I am sure the truck intended to let me pass but you can't know that when they blow past the first white line (where they should stop) and come to a quick stop right at the curb. I slowed... they let me pass... not the worst thing that has happened to me.
BUT... heading back, when rush hour was picking up. I came to a stop at the light, where all corners had cars looking to go straight, turn, etc... when a MTB flew right through the red light without even looking.
My first triathlon this past year had an incident a few years prior where someone my age (50's) died during the swim. I noticed a "be respectful of cyclist" signs on my route recently where a cyclist was struck and killed a couple of years ago... also about my age.
Risk is relative. Be safe.
Not to toot my horn but I've lost about 60 pounds over the past year. This was after 2 heart caths (no intervention but getting close), hypertension out of control and no longer being pre-diabetic... flat out diabetic. Currently I am down to one medication for blood pressure. I want to lose more weight, for health reasons, but also it will be a lot cheaper than upgrading my bike
Anywho... I do a lot of thinking during my rides. I fully embrace the "you're just figuring this out now" and "d'uh" replies
Risk can be mitigated. Do you what you love.
I also almost hit a deer and a possum. Glad I have a super bright headlight... Quite the fun-filled morning!
I was on the road. I had the green light. I am sure the truck intended to let me pass but you can't know that when they blow past the first white line (where they should stop) and come to a quick stop right at the curb. I slowed... they let me pass... not the worst thing that has happened to me.
BUT... heading back, when rush hour was picking up. I came to a stop at the light, where all corners had cars looking to go straight, turn, etc... when a MTB flew right through the red light without even looking.
My first triathlon this past year had an incident a few years prior where someone my age (50's) died during the swim. I noticed a "be respectful of cyclist" signs on my route recently where a cyclist was struck and killed a couple of years ago... also about my age.
Risk is relative. Be safe.
Not to toot my horn but I've lost about 60 pounds over the past year. This was after 2 heart caths (no intervention but getting close), hypertension out of control and no longer being pre-diabetic... flat out diabetic. Currently I am down to one medication for blood pressure. I want to lose more weight, for health reasons, but also it will be a lot cheaper than upgrading my bike
Anywho... I do a lot of thinking during my rides. I fully embrace the "you're just figuring this out now" and "d'uh" replies
Risk can be mitigated. Do you what you love.
I also almost hit a deer and a possum. Glad I have a super bright headlight... Quite the fun-filled morning!
Likes For Korina:
10-10-23, 09:34 AM
#37
Newbie
Thread Starter
Likes For a1a:
10-10-23, 02:00 PM
#38
Happy banana slug
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Arcata, California, U.S., North America, Earth, Saggitarius Arm, Milky Way
Posts: 3,696
Bikes: 1984 Araya MB 261, 1992 Specialized Rockhopper Sport, 1993 Hard Rock Ultra, 1994 Trek Multitrack 750, 1995 Trek Singletrack 930
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1533 Post(s)
Liked 1,530 Times
in
917 Posts
Likes For Korina:
10-10-23, 05:13 PM
#39
20+mph Commuter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Greenville. SC USA
Posts: 7,517
Bikes: Surly LHT, Surly Lowside, a folding bike, and a beater.
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1434 Post(s)
Liked 331 Times
in
219 Posts
I estimated that I "ran" 16,000 (that's sixteen THOUSAND) red lights and stop signs yearly from age 15-55. I'm still here and caused ZERO other deaths or injuries (except for likely damaging a few tender sensibilities).
10-10-23, 06:12 PM
#40
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,725
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5791 Post(s)
Liked 2,581 Times
in
1,431 Posts
I don't like to say "run" in this context because it implies more than what I mean.
In simplest terms I approach ALL interactions the same way as if they were unregulated. I don't trust a green to protect me, nor as red to obligate me. I simply let traffic and sightline considerations guide me.
So, I may proceed without slowing, may slow and time it out, or stop and wait.
Lots of people here will say I'm wrong, and like the OP start a thread calling me out, but they can't see what I see or know what I think.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
10-10-23, 06:39 PM
#41
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 1,995
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2700 Post(s)
Liked 486 Times
in
351 Posts
Some people feel like a sitting duck when stopped at a red light, there is a school of thought that says it is generally safer to keep on moving.
10-10-23, 07:55 PM
#42
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,725
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5791 Post(s)
Liked 2,581 Times
in
1,431 Posts
For example there's a place where I need to wait in the left lane to make a left. Unfortunately, drivers coming from my right tend to start their left turns early and nip the corner. Plenty of close calls there. OTOH, usually, not waiting isn't an option either. So, if there's no car to use as a stalking horse, I'll stop and wait way back.
The point is that whether I stop, and where I stop, both depend on the exact situation that day.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
10-10-23, 07:55 PM
#43
Happy banana slug
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Arcata, California, U.S., North America, Earth, Saggitarius Arm, Milky Way
Posts: 3,696
Bikes: 1984 Araya MB 261, 1992 Specialized Rockhopper Sport, 1993 Hard Rock Ultra, 1994 Trek Multitrack 750, 1995 Trek Singletrack 930
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1533 Post(s)
Liked 1,530 Times
in
917 Posts
Especially when one of those gigantic pickups/SUVs are approaching from behind and you're not entirely sure they saw you or they'll slow down in time.
10-10-23, 08:29 PM
#44
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,441
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 626 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 397 Times
in
275 Posts
I have stopped at lights all my life and have never been hit by a car. After stopping I have ran the lights when they don't change to green in a reasonable amount of time. I have been hit slowing for a stop by another bicyclist who didn't let me know he was on my tail.
Last edited by Rick; 10-10-23 at 08:36 PM.
10-11-23, 05:24 AM
#45
For The Fun of It
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Louisissippi Coast
Posts: 5,852
Bikes: Lynskey GR300, Lynskey Backroad, Litespeed T6, Lynskey MT29, Burley Duet
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2135 Post(s)
Liked 1,647 Times
in
829 Posts
About stopping at lights. I process everything from a standpoint of mitigating risks. There are two risks associated with stopping in the lane at a traffic light. Vehicles approaching from behind may not see you. This seems to be a pretty rare form of accident, but bicycle accident data is really lacking in detail. Then, once things get going, cars may soon be overtaking the cyclist. The rear end or side swipe crash seems to be more common, and it's also one that's hard to guard against. Running a traffic light can often eliminate both of those risks, but introduces a new risk. Cross traffic. It's very easy for me to look at cross traffic and make a determination of whether or not I can safely proceed.
When I can safely run a traffic light, I most often do. With that said, everything is situational. Details matter, so it's rare that I speak in absolutes.
When I can safely run a traffic light, I most often do. With that said, everything is situational. Details matter, so it's rare that I speak in absolutes.
10-11-23, 05:54 AM
#46
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Toronto, CANADA
Posts: 6,204
Bikes: ...a few.
Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2012 Post(s)
Liked 409 Times
in
235 Posts
Rolling through a red light is situational. At 6 am where there is little traffic on the road, rolling up to a red light when there are no other cars around it is certainly safer than waiting for the green light and traffic stopped. I certainly would not endorse the idea of running red lights with regular traffic, but given the choice between crossing a road against a red light with no cars in sight and crossing a green light with traffic, I'll take the former.
This is from my rear-facing camera.
Road was wet. It was dark. Light reflections everywhere obscuring the scene...whatever the reason, you can't put your faith and safety in the hands of stupid, distracted, intoxicated, and reckless drivers!
Ride safe out there.
10-11-23, 06:15 AM
#47
For The Fun of It
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Louisissippi Coast
Posts: 5,852
Bikes: Lynskey GR300, Lynskey Backroad, Litespeed T6, Lynskey MT29, Burley Duet
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2135 Post(s)
Liked 1,647 Times
in
829 Posts
I hate to quote my own post, but here it illustrates what I mean by safer to cross against a red when no cars around or a green when there is traffic. Yesterday morning (6:30 a.m., still dark) while crossing a major road--three lanes each way, plus left turning lane. I waited for green light. Got the green. Took cursory look to the left. Saw that two vehicles had stopped on my left. Proceeded to cross. Not half a moment after crossing the median a speeding vehicle ran the red light through the intersection right behind me. It all could have ended right there and then for.
This is from my rear-facing camera.
Road was wet. It was dark. Light reflections everywhere obscuring the scene...whatever the reason, you can't put your faith and safety in the hands of stupid, distracted, intoxicated, and reckless drivers!
Ride safe out there.
This is from my rear-facing camera.
Road was wet. It was dark. Light reflections everywhere obscuring the scene...whatever the reason, you can't put your faith and safety in the hands of stupid, distracted, intoxicated, and reckless drivers!
Ride safe out there.
I don't ride at night. I had never considered the light reflections off of wet surfaces. That's a very real consideration.
10-12-23, 12:43 PM
#48
Newbie
Join Date: Jun 2023
Posts: 35
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 24 Times
in
15 Posts
I think some drivers are very courteous and slow to give enough passing room, but then there are others who seem like they are playing a game where they want to see how close they can get to you without hitting you with their side mirror. In 2022 NJ passed a law to protect walkers, joggers and cyclists. But I would be that the majority of drivers have no idea there is such a law or if they are aware of it they have no idea what four feet looks like. Here is what it is supposed to do.
- Also known as “Oscar’s Law,” the bill was introduced to protect people like Oscar, who could not drive a car and was riding his electric bicycle everywhere when a tractor-trailer fatally struck him.
- 2021 was the deadliest year for NJ bicyclists and pedestrians in 30 years, highlighting the need to do more to protect everyone on the road.
- According to the law, Drivers must follow all current no-passing, no-speeding rules AND move over a lane IF there’s one to move into. So no, you do not have to pass when center lines are both solid, but
- If 4 feet is not possible on a section of road, drivers must slow to 25mph and be prepared to stop until they can pass safely without endangering those sharing the road.
- On a single-lane road, drivers must allow at least a 4-foot safety zone when they pass.
- If you see a pedestrian or a bicyclist on the shoulder or riding in a painted bike lane, leave 4 feet between you and the person sharing the road, not the painted line.
- Cyclists are legally allowed to take the whole lane and can legally ride two abreast as far to the rights as “practicable.”
- When sidewalks are unavailable, pedestrians can walk on the road, facing traffic.
10-12-23, 02:11 PM
#49
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 1,995
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2700 Post(s)
Liked 486 Times
in
351 Posts
I hate to quote my own post, but here it illustrates what I mean by safer to cross against a red when no cars around or a green when there is traffic. Yesterday morning (6:30 a.m., still dark) while crossing a major road--three lanes each way, plus left turning lane. I waited for green light. Got the green. Took cursory look to the left. Saw that two vehicles had stopped on my left. Proceeded to cross. Not half a moment after crossing the median a speeding vehicle ran the red light through the intersection right behind me. It all could have ended right there and then for.
This is from my rear-facing camera.
Road was wet. It was dark. Light reflections everywhere obscuring the scene...whatever the reason, you can't put your faith and safety in the hands of stupid, distracted, intoxicated, and reckless drivers!
Ride safe out there.
This is from my rear-facing camera.
Road was wet. It was dark. Light reflections everywhere obscuring the scene...whatever the reason, you can't put your faith and safety in the hands of stupid, distracted, intoxicated, and reckless drivers!
Ride safe out there.
10-13-23, 11:36 PM
#50
20+mph Commuter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Greenville. SC USA
Posts: 7,517
Bikes: Surly LHT, Surly Lowside, a folding bike, and a beater.
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1434 Post(s)
Liked 331 Times
in
219 Posts
Unless the traffic light is about to fall on you and crush you, it is wise to keep your focus on the things that are more likely to kill or maim you. Like motor vehicles, potholes, road debris, missing manhole covers, muggers, etc. The pretty lights won't save you. YOU must save you. Do not get distracted or mesmerized by inanimate objects and traffic control furniture. Smart!