Why did it have to be a Peugeot?
08-08-13, 11:38 PM
#1
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Why did it have to be a Peugeot?
So after lurking on the C&V for awhile and drooling over some of the very nice looking vintage bikes. I like to try fixing anything I can and figured I'd see if I could find an old bike at a yard sale or thrift shop. So several weeks ago I see a yard sale on CL in my neighborhood and it mentions "old bike". I knew the chances of it being anything I'd want to buy and a reasonable price were slim. but I'd drove by the yard sale early on a Saturday and was surprised to see a decent vintage bike that looked original at what I thought was a decent price.
I looked it over pretty good and didn't see any major issues. Of course, since this is by first used bike purchase I wasn't even sure what I should really be looking for. The bike was a Peugeot (what I later learned here was a UO8) and I was off on my new addiction. What I didn't realized was how hard it would be to find good parts for the ones that needed to be replaced. Dang Frenchies and their need to be different.
I've been able to replace the Simplex FD (thanks pastor Bob)
I've checked with numerous bike shops in town, including several that handle many vintage bikes, and have been unable to find several parts (rear axle, cotters).
I'm hoping some of the more experienced wrenches here will be able to tell me how difficult it'll be to find these parts. I still have the bike kitchen to check here. I really like getting greasy and looking at the shine parts afterward but DANG, why did this first project have to be a Peugeot?
Camp
I looked it over pretty good and didn't see any major issues. Of course, since this is by first used bike purchase I wasn't even sure what I should really be looking for. The bike was a Peugeot (what I later learned here was a UO8) and I was off on my new addiction. What I didn't realized was how hard it would be to find good parts for the ones that needed to be replaced. Dang Frenchies and their need to be different.
I've been able to replace the Simplex FD (thanks pastor Bob)
I've checked with numerous bike shops in town, including several that handle many vintage bikes, and have been unable to find several parts (rear axle, cotters).
I'm hoping some of the more experienced wrenches here will be able to tell me how difficult it'll be to find these parts. I still have the bike kitchen to check here. I really like getting greasy and looking at the shine parts afterward but DANG, why did this first project have to be a Peugeot?
Camp
08-08-13, 11:45 PM
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Parts can be hard to find for a vintage french bike but the UO-8 is such a great bike to mod if you don't care about staying with original era parts. You can build it with 700c wheels and fit some seriously large tires for example. You could get rid of the cottered crank and go with something different. Velo orange sells a french threaded bottom bracket: https://store.velo-orange.com/index.p...y-cups-59.html. Kind of pricey. Harris cyclery has cotters and french threaded bbs as well: https://sheldonbrown.com/harris/french-cranks.html
08-09-13, 04:42 AM
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The whole craziness (if you want to call it that) of a French bike comes down to three basic areas: Anything threaded, the fork steerer tube, and the seat post. All are easily compensated for.
Don't worry about the seat post, use the one you've got. If you have to go alloy, just measure the diameter and match it. My LBS carries modern seat posts in many diameters, and I've never had a problem with finding a replacement for a French bike.
The headset, unless worn, is already decently high quality for that price level of bike. Just use it. Your steerer tube on the fork is a slightly smaller diameter than what would be on an English or Japanese bicycle. However, the size difference is .2mm (yes, that's _point two_). Which means a couple of minutes of sanding on a Japanese stem will have it fit nicely.
Wheels are wheels. If you're talking a five-speed rear wheel, it'll fit. Six speed and up means having to spread the rear stays - to pick up a extra cog or two, it's more trouble than its worth. You may have to change the freewheel with the wheel (French threaded freewheels are different than English, natch) but that's damned little expense. As the UO-8 was set up for 27" wheels, 700c wheels will fit, and the original Mafac Racer brakes will probably stretch to fit the slightly smaller wheel.
The crank. While the bottom bracket is threaded differently, it still adheres to the 68mm standard of English and Japanese bikes. So, if you want to upgrade the crank, keep your cups and pick up a 68mm crank spindle. There's a chance that the cup walls will be thinner than English, but substituting an Italian 70mm crank spindle takes care of that problem.
You've already got the front derailleur, so the only other possible problem (slightly smaller diameter seat tube) has been compensated for. A simple metal shim has always taken care of any problem along those lines for me.
Don't worry about the seat post, use the one you've got. If you have to go alloy, just measure the diameter and match it. My LBS carries modern seat posts in many diameters, and I've never had a problem with finding a replacement for a French bike.
The headset, unless worn, is already decently high quality for that price level of bike. Just use it. Your steerer tube on the fork is a slightly smaller diameter than what would be on an English or Japanese bicycle. However, the size difference is .2mm (yes, that's _point two_). Which means a couple of minutes of sanding on a Japanese stem will have it fit nicely.
Wheels are wheels. If you're talking a five-speed rear wheel, it'll fit. Six speed and up means having to spread the rear stays - to pick up a extra cog or two, it's more trouble than its worth. You may have to change the freewheel with the wheel (French threaded freewheels are different than English, natch) but that's damned little expense. As the UO-8 was set up for 27" wheels, 700c wheels will fit, and the original Mafac Racer brakes will probably stretch to fit the slightly smaller wheel.
The crank. While the bottom bracket is threaded differently, it still adheres to the 68mm standard of English and Japanese bikes. So, if you want to upgrade the crank, keep your cups and pick up a 68mm crank spindle. There's a chance that the cup walls will be thinner than English, but substituting an Italian 70mm crank spindle takes care of that problem.
You've already got the front derailleur, so the only other possible problem (slightly smaller diameter seat tube) has been compensated for. A simple metal shim has always taken care of any problem along those lines for me.
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“No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”
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Syke
“No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”
H.L. Mencken, (1926)
08-09-13, 05:12 AM
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Everything Syke said - +1. I've had an AO-8 since before it was considered C&V and have rarely had a problem with parts.
For example, in the 70's I replaced the solid axles with quick release (AO-8 had wingnuts) - non-Peugeot original but they worked for years (until I did what bikemig suggests and replaced the wheels entirely with 700C/nicer hubs/alloy rims).
More recently, I have all sorts of non-original parts that fit fine - most SR stems and seat posts seem to fit (You know the Peugeot steel seat post has a removable shim on it and the "real" hole diameter is closer to standard, right?) BB I originally replaced with Sugino but now run a cotterless crank spindle with the original cups. Etc, Etc....The headset is about the only thing I have not changed out over the years, mostly due to the fact it didn't need it....
Anyway, congrats on the bike and go out and enjoy it!
For example, in the 70's I replaced the solid axles with quick release (AO-8 had wingnuts) - non-Peugeot original but they worked for years (until I did what bikemig suggests and replaced the wheels entirely with 700C/nicer hubs/alloy rims).
More recently, I have all sorts of non-original parts that fit fine - most SR stems and seat posts seem to fit (You know the Peugeot steel seat post has a removable shim on it and the "real" hole diameter is closer to standard, right?) BB I originally replaced with Sugino but now run a cotterless crank spindle with the original cups. Etc, Etc....The headset is about the only thing I have not changed out over the years, mostly due to the fact it didn't need it....
Anyway, congrats on the bike and go out and enjoy it!
08-09-13, 05:40 AM
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I've got a UO-8 I bought at a tag sale for a few bucks and use it as a daily commuter.
The bottom bracket was in ruins so I replace it with the french-threaded sealed bottom bracket, a 44t crank, and 175mm crank arms from Velo Orange.
I also put on a chain guard to keep my pants clean and out of the crank, so I converted it to a 1x5, hence the 44t crank. The UO-8 has a braze-on for the shifters only on the right side; the left shifter "braze-on" is built in to the clamp. This makes them ideal for a conversion to 1x5.
The bottom bracket was in ruins so I replace it with the french-threaded sealed bottom bracket, a 44t crank, and 175mm crank arms from Velo Orange.
I also put on a chain guard to keep my pants clean and out of the crank, so I converted it to a 1x5, hence the 44t crank. The UO-8 has a braze-on for the shifters only on the right side; the left shifter "braze-on" is built in to the clamp. This makes them ideal for a conversion to 1x5.
08-09-13, 07:39 AM
#6
Still learning
If you're close to any population center in northern CA, I would think you can obtain used parts easily at any of the local bike cooperatives for peanuts. Or, you could keep one Peugeot on the road by having a backup Peugeot for parts! I've reconditioned many a French bike, mostly Pugs and Motos, and don't run into anything that with a little patience you can resolve. Great BB deal below for UO-8s:
https://www.amazon.com/Bottom-Bracket...bottom+bracket
IMHO, all the comments on this forum about the Frenchness of French bikes contributes to the values of the better French bikes to be held back, Le Champions excepted.
https://www.amazon.com/Bottom-Bracket...bottom+bracket
IMHO, all the comments on this forum about the Frenchness of French bikes contributes to the values of the better French bikes to be held back, Le Champions excepted.
Last edited by oddjob2; 08-09-13 at 07:47 AM.
08-09-13, 07:55 AM
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If you want to keep the cottered crank, go to bikesmithdesign.com for the best French cotters available. He also sells the tool you need to do the job right.
If you're close to Pinole, bring it over and use mine.
If you're close to Pinole, bring it over and use mine.
Last edited by Grand Bois; 08-09-13 at 08:02 AM.
08-09-13, 07:15 PM
#8
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Camp
08-09-13, 07:23 PM
#9
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According to the bikesmithdesign site, they don't sell the Peugeot cotters anymore. Or do yo know a secret password? I may try the filing route if need be.
Camp
08-09-13, 07:46 PM
#10
In the right lane
If you're close to any population center in northern CA, I would think you can obtain used parts easily at any of the local bike cooperatives for peanuts. Or, you could keep one Peugeot on the road by having a backup Peugeot for parts! I've reconditioned many a French bike, mostly Pugs and Motos, and don't run into anything that with a little patience you can resolve. Great BB deal below for UO-8s:
https://www.amazon.com/Bottom-Bracket...bottom+bracket
IMHO, all the comments on this forum about the Frenchness of French bikes contributes to the values of the better French bikes to be held back, Le Champions excepted.
https://www.amazon.com/Bottom-Bracket...bottom+bracket
IMHO, all the comments on this forum about the Frenchness of French bikes contributes to the values of the better French bikes to be held back, Le Champions excepted.
08-09-13, 07:53 PM
#11
elcraft
[QUOTE
According to the bikesmithdesign site, they don't sell the Peugeot cotters anymore. Or do yo know a secret password? I may try the filing route if need be.
Camp[/QUOTE]
Harris Cyclery in West Newton, MA carries many French parts, including cotters. See; https://harriscyclery.net/product/gen...-each-1585.htm
According to the bikesmithdesign site, they don't sell the Peugeot cotters anymore. Or do yo know a secret password? I may try the filing route if need be.
Camp[/QUOTE]
Harris Cyclery in West Newton, MA carries many French parts, including cotters. See; https://harriscyclery.net/product/gen...-each-1585.htm
08-09-13, 08:00 PM
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JUst FYI, the later model Pugs have standard threads. Since about 1985 or so, I think. This bike has some '85 parts on it and they're standard threads.
08-09-13, 08:37 PM
#13
Still learning
08-09-13, 11:51 PM
#14
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Harris Cyclery in West Newton, MA carries many French parts, including cotters. See; https://harriscyclery.net/product/gen...-each-1585.htm
Yeah, I checked them and I may go with them but they will require some filing as the cotters from my bike has the full cut.
Camp
Last edited by campngolf; 08-10-13 at 10:44 AM. Reason: fixed quote
08-10-13, 03:50 AM
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See if bike smith has any of the full cut grade C cotters available. Those will be better than the crummy LBS ones. I have a few of the cheapo 9.0 cotters left that I will send you for free if you want to try them.
08-10-13, 07:19 AM
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In the right lane
08-10-13, 09:49 AM
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08-10-13, 10:24 AM
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I just checked and I don't have any to offer. I guess it wasn't a good idea to toss perfectly good headsets when I replaced them with better ones.
08-10-13, 10:31 AM
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The lower stack takes almost all the load and thus shows almost all the wear on a headset. Thus, you could replace the lower stack with any similar lower stack and keep using the metric threaded parts with the upper stack.
08-10-13, 10:53 AM
#21
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The easiest solution for the headset and stem weirdness is an aftermarket Japanese fork -- I think Sheldon mentioned this on his website.
The UO-8 is one of the best-riding basic bike boom "10 speeds" out there. Mine is my basic theft-resistant rusty trusty transportation beater.
The fundamental UO-8 upgrades are: 1) aluminum rims (I installed new wheels with ISO freewheel threading and Normandy Luxe Competition hubs); 2) ultra-6 freewheel (requires only about 2mm more than a 5-speed); 3) aluminum cranks (mine are aero Suginos; 4) Japanese derailleurs (SunTour Cyclone rear, Shimano Titlist front, SunTour ratchet barcons); 5) KoolStop salmon brake pads. I also substituted Weinmann brake handles for a faster panic grab (if you have hands like Rachmaninoff's, keep the Mafacs); 6) aluminum road quill pedals (or modern clipless if you prefer); 7) modern pump -- my Blackburn fits the downtube pegs perfectly. Finishing touches on mine are period correct Pletscher mousetrap rear rack and cylindrical Bellwether handlebar bag.
The UO-8 is one of the best-riding basic bike boom "10 speeds" out there. Mine is my basic theft-resistant rusty trusty transportation beater.
The fundamental UO-8 upgrades are: 1) aluminum rims (I installed new wheels with ISO freewheel threading and Normandy Luxe Competition hubs); 2) ultra-6 freewheel (requires only about 2mm more than a 5-speed); 3) aluminum cranks (mine are aero Suginos; 4) Japanese derailleurs (SunTour Cyclone rear, Shimano Titlist front, SunTour ratchet barcons); 5) KoolStop salmon brake pads. I also substituted Weinmann brake handles for a faster panic grab (if you have hands like Rachmaninoff's, keep the Mafacs); 6) aluminum road quill pedals (or modern clipless if you prefer); 7) modern pump -- my Blackburn fits the downtube pegs perfectly. Finishing touches on mine are period correct Pletscher mousetrap rear rack and cylindrical Bellwether handlebar bag.
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Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
Last edited by John E; 08-10-13 at 10:59 AM.
08-10-13, 03:34 PM
#22
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It's quite common for a French bikes steerer to have a caged upper and loose balls in the lower, It surprised me the first time I ran into it and all the bearings fell on the floor.
08-10-13, 04:22 PM
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Replacing the fork carries the risk of altering those desirable ride characteristics. Replacing the worn lower stack of the headset with new parts, while retaining the original metric-thread upper stack and fork both costs less and won't alter the ride characteristics.
08-10-13, 05:48 PM
#24
In the right lane
Replacing the fork carries the risk of altering those desirable ride characteristics. Replacing the worn lower stack of the headset with new parts, while retaining the original metric-thread upper stack and fork both costs less and won't alter the ride characteristics.
... just another example of the challenges you run into with these old bike boom French bikes.
08-10-13, 07:28 PM
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Why not a new headset? The UO-8 used a pretty generic unit (Stronglight P-3, IIRC); an inexpensive new Japanese or Taiwanese headset would be perfectly suitable. The only parts you'd need are the crown race and the lower cup, but those a seldom available separately anymore.