njkayaker

It's not just inclines.

Leinster

I can not-infrequently (but not frequently enough for my preference) be seen riding my Yuba Mundo with 3 kids on the back around my small rural Northern California city. I think I'm about the only parent doing so in town, but we (I?) do exist.

Leinster

Nobody wants to transform the USA into the Netherlands, but carrying on with the existing car-dependent infrastructure in cities and suburbs is a terrible model economically, socially, health-wise, and for a million other reasons before we even bother getting to the environment.

Amsterdam and Copenhagen have worse weather, most of the year, than most of the USA. The USA already imports energy, and will continue to do so and burn mountains of coal and lakes of gas in our power plants just to run the A/C, for decades after the last ICE car rolls off the production line.

I grew up in Ireland, and the car ruled everywhere in the 80s and 90s, and bike lanes were an afterthought, or a stripe of paint down the side of the road, until congestion just got too much for the street system to handle. In the last 10 years or so, a conscious effort has been made to improve bike and transit infrastructure, at great expense, and against great protests from my parents' generation (my mum flippin haaaaaates it) who want to drive everywhere. On my most recent trip home last August, I marveled at the new bike lanes, and even many main roads which had been converted to one-way for cars, so that bikes could have 2-way traffic on the other side.
In the 90s, I'd lock my bike up on a rack in the city centre with tens of other bikes. Now, on the same bike racks, there are hundreds or more. I have friends my age who don't even know how to drive a car.

It's not a factor of weather, or culture, or terrain, or domestic industry, or the existing infrastructure. It's a matter of political will and making important decisions. And before you start, don't even suggest that "you can't get it done with American politicians." If IRISH politicians can get something done, it can be done anywhere.

Chuckles1

Same here. I would have when I was a twenty-something, but being older, wits are not as sharp. Cities are for the young and the well-endowed.

Leinster

This is the thing. Nobody should feel unsafe getting around in a city by ANY form of transportation. Nobody should be afraid for their childrens' safety in any city. Cities should be for everybody.

A350driver

In theory sure, but try riding, or walking alone, around Chicago at night!

ChamoisDavisJr

Here's the latest data I could find on cyclists deaths in the Netherlands. https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2021/1...deaths-in-2020

"Most traffic victims in 2020 were cyclists (229), i.e. 26 more than in 2019 and one more than in 2018. The number of cyclist deaths was the highest in 25 years. One-third were e-bike fatalities (74 persons). In 2019, 65 e-bike riders were killed in traffic"

Going by population estimates found here: https://www.census.gov/newsroom/pres...estimates.html

You have the following deaths per 100,000 (2019)
2019 Netherlands - 17.34million 11.6 per 100,000
2019 New York - 20 Million 2.2 per 100,000
2019 California - 39.51million 2.98 per 100,000
2019 Florida - 21.47million 4.19 per 100,000
2019 Texas - 29million 1.52 per 100,000

What's with all the drunk people on bikes here in the US? https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality...ail/bicyclists
Of cyclists over the age of 16, 21% (170) of them had BAC's above .08%
23% of cycling deaths occur between the hours of 9pm and 3am.
62% of cyclists killed in the US were NOT wearing helmets.

Don't ride drunk, don't ride late at night, and wear a helmet. Seems like that would reduce the chance of getting dead a great deal.​​​​​

Korina

Baton Rouge Louisiana, Indianapolis Indiana, and Columbus is the capitol of O-hi-o... Oh, no that's Wakko!

Leinster

The Dutch make 10 times as many trips by bike as Americans do, though, so that more than covers the difference in cyclist death rates.



There were 11.6 motor traffic deaths per 100,000 pop in the US in 2020.

And less than a quarter of US cyclists killed, were killed in the 6 hours (ie, quarter of a day) either side of midnight.

Korina

Sadly, engineers are the problem. Traffic engineers are trained to prioritize car speed above everything else; move as many cars as you can, as quickly as you can, people be damned. And boy oh boy, they've done their job well; let's give 'em a gold star.

Leinster

I think you're discussing a socio-economic issue here that is outwith the scope of this thread...

Korina

It occurs to me that drivers with their faces in their phones is likely also an infrastructure problem. I mean, they feel comfortable enough with their surroundings to take their eyes off the road, so maybe the the roads shouldn't be that comfortable. We had an incident in January where an admittedly distracted driver hit and killed a woman, who's last act was to push her daughter's stroller out of danger. That particular street is wide and curved, with no complexity to encourage drivers to pay attention. It still makes me mad.

Speaking of mad, anyone remember Mothers Against Drunk Driving? Here's a reminder from Wikipedia:

Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD) is a non-profit organization in the United States, Canada and Brazil that seeks to stop drunk driving, support those affected by drunk driving, prevent underage drinking, and strive for stricter impaired driving policy, whether that impairment is caused by alcohol or any other drug. The Irving, Texas–based[2] organization was founded on September 5, 1980, in California[1] by Candace Lightner after her 13-year-old daughter, Cari, was killed by a drunk driver.[4] There is at least one MADD office in every state of the United States[5] and at least one in each province of Canada.[6] These offices offer victim services and many resources involving alcohol safety. MADD has claimed that drunk driving has been reduced by half since its founding.[7] Members of the organization have been known to harass & delay or disrupt court hearings for DUI charges, or call CPS on family members of the defendant in said cases under false claims of abuse or neglect.

That's what we need; we need to get angry. We need to riot like mothers. We need to say scream that it is not acceptable for thousands of people every year to die on our streets, that our children can't walk or bike to school because it's too dangerous, that we have to live with the constant roar of cars everywhere we go. We need to take to the streets and tell our city and state leaders that THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. But we won't. Because -- ooh, new TikTok!

Leinster

Maybe this is a good thread to discuss it, or maybe it should get a new thread, but San Francisco voted last night to make JFK Drive in Golden Gate Park car-free on a permanent basis.



While it's undoubtedly a big win for recreational cycling, I can't help think that in the greater scheme of bike advocacy, it's a bit of a windmill tilt; unless JFK connects with some new bike infra on some of the streets going downtown east of the park, I can't see it making a huge difference in how City residents actually get around town.

Any SF folk on here to comment?

Daniel4

That post you were responding was in response to another one about how to make smartphones know when the user is a driver or a passenger.

Road and urban design is another matter for which they are also changing.

Back in the 1950s and 1960s, engineers were given the task to move cars swiftly ( without any consideration of other road users, except how to get them out of the way). Today, with our changing philosophy, if engineers were to be tasked with road designs dedicated to the safety of vulnerable road users whether he is 8 or 80, I'm sure whatever they come up with will upset current motorists.

Korina

I know, it was a deliberate tangent. It was in the 1950's and 1960's that they wrote the traffic engineering textbooks, and they're still using them and their principles today.