gauvins

My tent (Zpacks Duplex) is approaching end of life and I am considering alternatives. For solo travel, weeks at a time.

One possibility would be bivy+tarp. I have an Helium bivy that is gathering dust. So I am looking at tarps.

One interesting option is the tarp poncho. From the top of my mind, MLD, Borah, S2S are worth considering. Problem is that while they may well be a great dual purpose item for UL backpacking, I can't find reviews relevant to bike touring.

I currently tour with a Houdini Air and carry a more waterproof jacket (OR Helium) for situations where cold becomes an issue. In other words, I don't mind getting wet.

Reviews suggest that capes/ponchos are great for cycling, but perhaps design differences are critical and a tarp poncho wouldn't be such a good idea.

Experiences to share?

[update]

staehpj1

If I were going the tarp bivy route I'd avoid the hooped bivys. They are about as heavy as the lightest tents and if you have to add a tarp they will be heavier. For me the bivys that are in the 7 ounce range luke the Borah side zip make more sense if going bivy/tarp. If it is warm a bug bivy makes even more sense IMO. Mine are 7 and 5.3 ounces respectively. Even after you add a tarp they are lighter than a hooped bivy.

I would carry one of the light tents before I'd go with the Helium or similar. I have had good luck with light tarp bivy combos, but have no experience with using a poncho/tarp. I wonder about whether I'd be wanting to use the poncho in camp and want to have it set up as a tarp at the same time.

I have been planning to use a UL tent on my next trip after using a bivy/tarp combo for quite some time. I picked up an REI flash air 1 and plan to give it a chance.

Juan Foote

When you say "tarp poncho" my mind instantly goes to the military edition poncho that easily doubled as a tent or other covering.

Tourist in MSN

I would not try to wear a poncho on a bike, too much like a sail when traveling where there is no wind shelter like buildings or forest. And you would have to have good fenders to keep the tire spray off.

Or, are you talking about using a poncho in campsites instead of jacket, and also convert that into a tarp for sleeping?

I use one of these for backpacking in warm weather instead of a rain jacket. The back side can fold and it is held up with snaps on the backside for when not wearing a backpack. When wearing a backpack, unsnap the back for extra length behind you. Mine is this one in this link and mine is 340 grams.
https://www.redledge.com/products/ad...kpacker-poncho

But if you used that as a tarp, not sure if you can get the hood sealed up very well.

Staehpj1 has much more bivy experience than me, so I can't add much. (I have zero bivy experience.)

ignant666

If you are going to wear a poncho on a bike, you will want it to have a strap around your waist to keep the rear in place, and also loops for your hands in front, to prevent it blowing up in your face and blinding you. Between the waist strap and the hand loops, and the sort of conical cut of bike ponchos, there isn't much of a sail effect.

Such ponchos are often sold as bicycle capes. I own two, one some anonymous Dutch brand bought from St John's Cycles in the UK many years ago, and a more recent florescent yellow Carradice version:

https://carradice.co.uk/shop/rainwea...oute-raincape/

There is also this waxed cotton version for those who prefer a more bomb-proof 19th century approach:

https://carradice.co.uk/shop/rainwea...k-rain-poncho/

The issue with using a poncho as a tent, as several have mentioned, is that you will need another piece of raingear to wear in camp; i usually bring my Marmot Pecip gore-tex jacket.

staehpj1

That took me back to my old favorite off road motorcycle jacket. It was a waxed cotton Belstaff and they were the real deal for off road riding. Tough as nails and great in bad weather. I loved that jacket. It was stolen when my truck was broken into. They probably only stole it because it was raining that night. I was packed with everything for a two day hare scrambles race except the bike and tool box. They stole my gas cans and everything that looked valuable. The bastards came back the next night and syphoned out all the gas from my tank probably using my cans.

gauvins

Thanks for your comments.

1. Bivy+tarp vs UL staehpj1 I had the very same opinion, but it might be evolving. Absolutely true, bivy+tarp is close to if not heavier than UL tents. But, (1) being modular you can replace the tarp, or use different bivies depending on the circumstances; (2) if the weather cooperates, setting up the bivy is nearly instant (assuming that you roll your sleeping bag & pad & bivy shell into a single burrito); (3) the footprint is smaller, the profile as well, so there are more options for discrete camping; (4) there's a better connection with the environment compared to a tent.

2. Hooped staehpj1 mixed feelings here. Yes they are heavier, but reviews for the Helium can be stellar and (a) the hoop increases protection from mozzies (if the message touches your skin, it is useless), probably helps fighting condensation and doesn't require a tarp or a tree to lift the mesh. (b) the breathable/DWR top is generally sufficient to keep you dry in the rain.

​​​Tourist in MSN hood closure appears to be secure. The MLD hood is rolled into itself and tied. ignant666 loops for the hands. Thanks for pointing to this. Should be easy to do.
---

I am still very much ambivalent. I love our Duplex (we have two, so at least one will remain in our kit). But I will certainly invest energy to learn about bivy+tarp.

​​​​​​Will eventually report.

Pratt

Isn't a tarp a poncho with a big hole in the middle?

staehpj1

Not really if you go with the really light bivys that are just an envelope. Mine is 7 ounces and isn't some high tech fabric so lighter is possible. My bug bivy is lighter. Tarps can be pretty light it depends on size and material choice.

I have sometimes considered leaving the bivy home since my sleeping bag has a DWR treated shell. I figure in a bug free setting it would be fine with just it and a tarp sans bivy. Maybe add a headnet for buggy conditions. Given that my bug bivy is under 6 ounces I never went without either it or a bivy, but I considered it. I have slept many a night cowboy style and just had a tarp ready to pull over me in case of an unexpected shower. It always worked out fine when I had a surprise shower, but I always pitched the tarp when I expected rain.

Tourist in MSN

Nope, a poncho is a tarp with a big hole in the middle.

Pratt

I had it bassackwards.

gauvins

Yes, but the hood is rolled and tied in place such that when pitched it works as a regular tarp. You may want to look at the MLD pro poncho.

Reviews are mixed. While it is a dual purpose item, it is said to be too small to be used as a tarp is most cases (7x5.5' - larger would be too large for a poncho).

I'll probably pass on this for next season. I already have a relatively small tarp (9.5 x 6). If I conclude that it is larger than the minimum viable size, I'll give it a try.

gauvins

staehpj1 I meant that weight isn't a strong justification. Zpacks Plex (solo) weighs 13oz. At best you'll shave 1-2 oz with an ultra minimalist bivy+tarp.

(1) Bivy+tarp is modular such that you can replace components as needed. (2) In favorable weather, deploying a bivy is faster than pitching a tent. (3) the combo is more discreet than a tent, which can be a plus if you stealth camp. (4) and it makes you feel closer to your surroundings.

Now, most (all?) reviews suggest that this system works ok in Western US, but will make you feel miserable in the East where you could be pinned by rain. As I never lounge in my tent on solo trips, this negative may not be a factor for me.

The plan is to try this setup next October, where the weather in Quebec is fairly similar to what I expect in Labrador (wet and cool). I have a waterproof Bivy such that a small tarp acting as a vestibule and allowing me to sleep with an open hood, should do the trick. (Which is why I've asked about poncho tarps)

Pratt

In the northeast, in the summer, if it is not raining, a variety of blood sucking insects and arachnids are eager to make your acquaintance, hence, tents.

Tourist in MSN

Photo is from PEI, the mosquitos were waiting outside my tent door (netting) waiting for me to open it so they could come in for breakfast. Late June, 2019.

staehpj1

FWIW, I have experimented with different sized tarps for tarp/bivy camping. I found a 5'X8' to be adequate for my use, but it did require pitching pretty low in wet windy weather. A bit larger one can be pitched higher even in bad weather.

On one hand it is nice to have the open feeling of a higher pitch. On the other when there isn't much chance of rain I am likely to cowboy camp. The tarp is always there to pull over me and the gear for a surprise shower.

Of course with a hooped bivy with really waterproof fabric like your helium good coverage is less critical. I successfully did a few weeks with only a little rain with a little half tarp (MLD Dog Tarp) that only covered the upper half of my bivy. That was with a more robust bivy. I only had hard rain once with that setup, but I managed okay in that.

gauvins

Thanks for the feedback.

I am partial to MLD Pro. You'd have a different suggestion?

You use line loks or some kind of knot?

staehpj1

Not really. Mine in that size is a Integral Designs Siltarp 1. When I want the luxury of a bigger tarp at the expense of more weight I have a Sea2Summit Escapist M 6'6" x 8'6" that weighs a bit over 12 ounces. It is luxurious coverage wise, but almost as heavy as my light tent when used with my bug bivy.

MLD makes nice stuff as does Borah. One thing about a tarp. I wonder how much of a pain it is to rig and unrig lines in switching between using as a poncho and using as a tarp. I guess not a big deal, but it is one more thing to do.

I have used the line loks when they came with the tarp, but never minded using knots when I used my own cordage. I have used some ridiculously light spectra line that I bought for kite flying years ago, but typically if a light tarp came with lines I just used them.

Edit to add hat I tend to use a truckers hitch if I use a knot. You can leave the upper loop in between uses or not.

gauvins

MLD sells mini biners as an option.

Tourist in MSN

Gauvins, if this is what you are talking about:
https://mountainlaureldesigns.com/pr...o-rain-poncho/

That looks pretty good. Larger than my poncho and lighter, and they have the hood hole problem solved for rain when you use it as a tarp.

That said, for biking, I would still bring a rain jacket and if I was to use a bivy, I would probably go with a tarp instead of the poncho/tarp.

But I can see for someone that is trying to hike the full AT in one season, I like a poncho when backpacking instead of a jacket in warm weather. Then the poncho/tarp system with a bivy would work instead of a jacket.

Pratt

I plan on going to PEI this year, but in September.

Tourist in MSN

Have a great time.

I rode the ferry to PEI, then later took a shuttle across the bridge to leave. In Sep, I would expect the bugs to have thinned out a bit.

I recommend the Propeller double IPA.



If you have a chance to camp on north side of Bay of Fundy in Nova Scotia, I recommend Five Islands campground. Try to get a hike in campsite.
https://parks.novascotia.ca/park/five-islands

Pratt

Ride Burlington to MOntreal
Train to Moncton, NB
Ride to Fundy,
Ride to Shediac, Shuttle to PEI
Ride north to Malpeque Bay
Eat oysters
Tide to Avonlea, do Green Gables
Ride east, around point to Souris
Ferry to Magdelaines, explore
Ferry back, ride to Charolttetown
Shuttle back to Shediac, etc to home

Tourist in MSN

Sorry for being off topic here.

I did not plan to see Charlottetown, but with five consecutive days of rain in the forecast, I discarded my plans and made a reservation to stay at the HI Hostel there. Stayed there three nights, sleeping in a dry indoors. But that was pre-covid, I have no idea which hostels still exist or which are able to follow their business model of dorm style rooms. Enjoyed Charlottetown although my shoes stayed wet from sightseeing in the rain.

Photo from one of the hike in campsites at Five Islands campground when Bay of Fundy tide was in.



Tide was out.



My shuttle ride to the mainland from PEI on the shuttle in 2019 was $9, they did not charge extra for four panniers, a rack top bag and handlebar bag.



They did a good job of securing my bike to the trailer.



Photo through the windscreen on the shuttle van.



Seeing how narrow the shoulder is on the bridge, I was content to not ride it. (Riding over the bridge is prohibited on a bike.) The Seven Mile bridge I rode across in Florida Keys had a much wider shoulder, that was ok to ride on a bike.

You are going to have a great time.

mev

I took a shuttle across the Confederation Bridge on July 7th 1997. That was five weeks after it opened and the shuttle consisted of a pickup truck and was free. The auto toll was $35. It looks like the toll increases have been less than inflation.

As I crossed, there was radio chatter about a cyclist they caught on the bridge. He claimed he only spoke French and hadn't seen the signs. Chatter suggested a $85 fine which I'm sure has changed.

I was on PEI for several days before taking the ferry on to Nova Scotia to continue my across Canada ride. It was also soggy some of the days and I don't recall much in way of insects.