Ravenous007

Hi everyone,
I’m new to biking and new to the forum in search of some answers I can’t really seem to find.
My hubby had a CCM hard tail from Canadian tire that broke within a few months of light trails. We traded it in on warranty but traded up as well. We paid ~$700 a few years ago. Most local bike shops refuse to do any work on it. The one that did when there was a bearing issue, it broke the first ride back out. We brought it back and we got “what do you expect? It’s a crappy bike and we don’t warranty work on crappy bikes” answer. So then I proceeded to learn how to fix it myself because guess what, a newer more expensive bike is not in the budget. (Having said that my personal bike I got from a bike store, a Liv Sedona, and I hate riding it even though it cost as much as the “crappy bike”). The other local store won’t even sell me parts, I just get turned around because they carry I guess real bike parts and say they’re not compatible with my crappy bike.

in my search to fix various things, I come accross people that take old vintage frames and turn them into new bikes… so that made me think, how can one bike be incompatible? I decided to look at this bike more closely. It has an aluminum frame, a shimano tourney gearset, alloy V disc brakes, a shimano derailleur. While from what I gather these are entry level specs, they don’t seem to be “Tupperware” either?

When I was told to scrap it and buy a new bike, I asked if maybe just some components needed an upgrade, which is when I was told quality parts would not be compatible. It’s one argument to say, the money you’d spend on parts isn’t worth it, maybe that’s the case but now I certainly won’t be shopping at either of these stores.

so I thought I’d turn to a forum for some opinion. Is there some brand bias going on or are they just suckering me to buy their bikes? Or is it a legit concern? This bike is used on light trails, at worst a logging road or a forest path with the odd root or puddle and my husband has no qualms with it.

RCMoeur 

The same corporation that produces Dura-Ace also produces Tourney. They're targeted for different price points. My experience with Tourney is that it shifts well when new, but stops shifting well when it's bent out of alignment - which unfortunately is easy to do as Tourneys use too-thin steel for critical pieces and they bend by looking at them sideways.

Bearing problems can have many causes, but low-price-point hubs often are made of stamped steel, and the tolerances can be a bit rough and the ability to keep dirt and crud out of the bearings may be of limited value. Even brand-name bikes such as Liv (Giant) may have these lower-cost hubs while having a higher-quality frame and other components.

Any shop that refuses to sell replacement or upgrade parts probably isn't your time or patronage. My experience has been different - retail replacement parts often have high markups and profitability.

Bicycle parts in general have a reasonable amount of interchangeability - with some glaring exceptions. The move to through axles and discs on higher-end bikes has "left behind" ones that use conventional threaded axles and rim brakes, and let's not even start on the plethora of cranks and bottom brackets.

If you have a bicycle co-op or used bicycle store in your region, they may be a very good resource. BikeForums can also help, except we can't usually be hands-on in helping and the responses can rage from friendly to sociopathic (while also possibly being informative). Try not to take it personally.

Crankycrank

Hard to give any general answers to all the questions. I say try to repair yourself as most of the parts can be replaced by something at least as good as what came with the bike and if you want to stay with low-cost parts you can as it's generally a bad investment to try to make an inexpensive bike better with throwing a lot of money at it. As mentioned, if you have a Co-Op nearby, they can be great for hands on learning and cheap parts and there are a whole bunch of folks that will gladly answer your questions here. Also, plenty of YouTube vids of how-to repairs and many other instructional sites on the web. The main advantage IMO, is that you learn about your bike, gain knowledge of different parts and quality between cheap-expensive. The best deals on bikes are usually used ones but knowing what to look for is the most important thing and just riding and repairing what you have now for a while can help you learn how to spend your money wisely. When asking for help with any issues, provide us with at least the make/model/year of your bike and pics can help greatly or at least links to the mfrs website.

abdon 

It would help to know which crappy bike you got.

There are vintage bikes that would cost a small fraction of a store bought crappy bike and end up working 10 times better. It would require some effort on your part but you don't seem scared of that.

Bill Kapaun

Some basic things about "cheaper" bikes.
WEIGHT
It may have SOME Shimano parts, but only 1/2 of what's needed-
Examples-
It may have Shimano Derailleurs, but are the shifters Shimano? Or vice versa?
Sometimes they use an off brand part on one end or the other. OFTEN, that part doesn't work right such as a shifter not pulling/releasing the correct amount of cable for a proper shift.

Often the brake calipers are stamped, flimsy steel that bend/flex when used hard. (That's when you really need them to work right)
Cables for both may be "springy". That can mess up shifting and may be variable on braking. Maybe too springy if you have the flimsy brake calipers.
Often some fasteners aren't your "standard" mostly metric, but may be some oddball threads.

They tend to rust.

Wheel, crank & fork bearings are provided with less than minimal lube. basically a wax spray vs a gob o' grease.

I'm not familiar with your specific bike, but am basically describing the low end box store bikes.
I used to flip bikes about a dozen years ago. I avoided them. Sometimes no matter how good you are, you can't make them operate right without some major transplanting to an overweight frame.
You wouldn't buy a YUGO would you?

Dealers don't want to charge you a ridiculous labor charge that may be in naught. It takes longer to make them work right and you often end up going down a rat hole.
You aren't the first that has made this complaint. The dealers see it so frequently, they tend to be short. It takes time to explain to a customer why it's not feasible. Time when they can be productive.

Moe Zhoost

Thia is great advice. I've volunteered at our local co-op for close to five years and can say that the the majority of the donated bikes that I've worked on of a similar quality level to your bikes. I can say with absolutely no doubt that any customer oriented bike shop will be able to service them. Yes, the components are lower end, but generally they work the same basic way as top end stuff so any competent mechanic should have no problem. Compatibility of parts can sometimes be an issue, but that would be infrequent. It could be that your local shops just don't have the parts they need. The past few years have been tough on the parts supply chain with many things unavailable. The could at least have discussed this with you. Some of the local shops have bought used parts from the co-op to support their customers.

There are some shops whose business plan is based on new sales so you're greeted by a salesperson rather than a service person. In this case you need to look for another shop.

You don't say where you are located. Perhaps making another post with the topic: 'Looking for recommendations for a good shop in [----] area' might get you some good leads. Also, if you have a specific issue that you need help with, BF members should be able to assist. The key to asking is to post a detailed description of the problem plus pictures (which you will be able to submit once you have 10 posts.)

Sorry about your frustrations.

Kontact 

My experience as a mechanic is that your bike is likely just as bad as you were told it is. All the bikes sold by non-traditional bike retailers seem to rely on the fact that people that would buy a bike there clearly aren't informed consumers, and this is an opportunity to turn an undesirable blend of parts into a high profit because they aren't actually competing with bike retailiers - including the bikes sold at Target/Walmart. You wouldn't buy seafood at tire store - why buy bicycles?

You hate your Liv Sedona - a bike clearly designed as a very upright townie bike. The fact that you like the cheap bike better suggests that the Liv isn't a bad bike, but the wrong kind of bike for the riding you like to do. But you haven't said what it is you are doing with your bike.

I have bought multiple high end bikes for $100 because they were 20+ years old, not because they performed poorly or were falling apart. If you have budgetary constraints, buy a used Acura instead of a new Yugo.

If you have questions about what sort of bike matches your needs, ask the people on a bike forum.

DonkeyShow

Sucks you spent $700 on a bso but some bikes are just straight garbage. Buy a properly made bike and learn to wrench.

maddog34

What "bearing broke"? wheel hub? crank bearing? steering ?

Better Derailleurs are Easy to do... as long as you get the correct one for the bike it's going onto.
i upgrade a wide range of bikes that come into my shop. some think it's crazy and futile, but then they change their tune after a quick ride.
my 1990 Diamondback Ascent is now loaded with Shimano XT and XTR parts... it is AMAZING to ride on the Rails-To-Trails paths it is built for. i paid $17 for it at a Garage sale... had it up and riding for another $15... and then i began the upgrades..... this was a decade before i started my bicycle Co-Op... i just swapped a Shimano XT Hollowtech II Crankset into it a month ago....it reduced the weight of the bike by 1.5 lbs....... that's a lot in the bikeworld. Careful shopping and patience help keep the cost down... i found that crankset in nearly new condition for $60 with a new bottom bracket bearing set.

We'll need some details to make specific recommendations..
What bike are you wanting to upgrade? How will the bike(s) be used?
Do you have Fit issues along with dependability issues?
What's your budget like? good? bad? don't ask!?

Study up on bike terms and better parts that you will now know the names of.. it'll help you in your quest.
Look up: "bicycle terminology", "Double Walled Rims v. single walled rims" and "Bicycle Gear Shifter Types" as a starting point.
and if there's a bike Co-Op near you, ride by and ask questions... you'll be glad you did !

Beginner's tool kit.. 2.5 to 8mm Metric Allen wrench set (separate ones are preferred to those "all in one" type, and i use the ones with a ball end on the long side!), 13 and 15mm Cone wrenches, a crank arm puller tool, a Cassette or freewheel remover(whichever fits your bikes), a good "chain whip" tool if you have Cassette type rear hubs, an appropriate Bottom Bracket tool for Your Bikes.. (these vary by the design of your bikes, so FIND OUT.).... ,7,8,9,10,12,13,14,15, and17mm wrenches(Box/open style for now), a 32-36mm Thin wrench for THREADED (once again, Find Out what YOUR Bikes have!)steering headsets, QUALITY side cutters (Knipex 200 or 250mm length is highly recommended!), and a Quality chain tool.

and your local Library SHOULD have a Bike repair bible on the shelf, or out on loan... i donated one to our local library.. it's Usually checked out!

Ravenous007

this bike actually has disc brakes

DonkeyShow

Hugely important having disk brakes on a bike that doesn't work.

Ravenous007

you’re right… I don’t like the uprightness of the sedona. In retrospect I felt sort of pressured to go with this bike because at the time I had some lower back issues with bike riding and I was told this is what I needed. I didn’t want shocks… but I was told I’d be crazy not to.

I would like a bike for mostly road, some trail, some gravel roads. Really more recreational. I never see myself doing crazy things like mountain biking… but I do live in BC so there are hills. My number 1 priority is a bike that actually gets me up a hill without getting off and dying lol

3alarmer 

.
...speaking in generalities, it's not so much incompatibility that is at issue here. It's just that from a pure dollars and cents perspective, it rarely makes sense to take a bottom of the barrel mountain bike you bought at a box store, and to upgrade all the components. You end up spending more money than you would, if you looked for an older, better quality MTB, with better quality components, bought used. I think this was already suggested above.

Bike stores are reluctant to work on them, because they are usually harder to work on, won't hold adjustments well, and as you have discovered, it's hard to guarantee your work product.

Reading about how people take bikes and completely disassemble them, change out components, and make them work like new can be deceptive. There's considerable input of time and energy, and there are many specialized tools that are often required for complete disassembly/reassembly. So most commonly, the advice you will receive in your situation is usually that which you have received. They're not trying to screw you over. It's just a losing proposition, given the component packages that often appear on bicycle shaped objects. They were not designed or specced with durability and a long product life cycle in mind.

DiabloScott

Well Ravenous - you got some blunt answers here. Cycling is not a cheap hobby... but you bought a cheap bike that is not maintainable - maybe even a cheap bike that was assembled poorly You're not the only one, we get lots of people in here asking similar questions about similar situations. It appears you have a piece of junk, and the advice is to not spend any more money on it.

We do understand budgets and we would like to help though - maybe check out the local Craig's List ads for used bikes and if you see one that looks interesting have us comment on it before you buy.

Kontact 

If I were you I would look for a 20+ year old upper end hybrid. Something like a Trek 750 or nicer. MTB components, but larger 700c wheels. Most of these bikes were purchased by older people who didn't put a lot of miles on them, then hung them in the garage. What was a $600 bike in the '90s can be had for $200 on Facebook or Craigslist. The parts, though dated, are so standard that maintenance won't be an issue.

Another, sportier, suggestion would be to find one of the common road bikes of that era that had 105 triple groups. Like a 2000 Lemond Buenos Aires. Durable, light enough, plenty of low gearing.

Just examples - do your research.

Russ Roth

I'm going to be a bit contrary to most of the posters here, while I wouldn't expect canadian tire to have a great range of bikes, at 700 for a bike I'd be inclined to believe its more than the BSO that most people are making it out to be. Maybe I'm off base due to the exchange rate, but I can't believe at that price its that bad.

Having worked in shops for years, yes there are biases against certain brands and the bias is often deserved. Further, people who often buy big box bikes get upset at the cost of repairs and working through their confusion can be a difficult task all its own. When a new bottom bracket is 25.00 for a basic one and 35.00 to install it can be a difficult experience for all parties involved to explain why a 60.00 repair is needed on a 120.00 bike and plenty of shops don't want to deal with the hassle. As an enthusiast with kids who race I still balk at the 110.00 I just spent on 2 tires and tubes, no install for a kid's bike. However, any shop that "does a repair" that fails and then blames the bike is just a crap shop. If we brought one in and felt that a part like a BB would just quickly fail again we'd either return it unfixed and explain why we didn't feel right working on it or replace the part. Failures can lead to accidents if they happen at the wrong time and it isn't worth the liability to send out a half-assed job.

Fixing it yourself with some guidance isn't the worst idea in the world, it'll help you understand how your bike works. You'll need to figure out some of the terminology, there's no "alloy V disc brakes;" you can have V-brakes, they're mounted to posts on the frame and act by squeezing the rim along a brake track or you can have disc brakes which bolt to the frame near the hub and use a rotor affixed to the hub to stop. But youtube is a good friend and this forum can clarify things. Personally I would never recommend that someone who has no idea what they're buying go out and buy a used bike. There are some amazing bargains out there on 10-20yo bikes that are of great quality, some will be in pristine shape and some will be wornout money pits that are more expensive than what you have and just old cheap bikes that aren't any better. If you don't know what you're looking at, its a roll of the dice.

TiHabanero

When I worked in the shop we always set things straight up front before working on a lower cost bike, ie adjustments don't hold well and we will give it our best shot, but don't expect miracles. We never cut corners thus the cost of repair often outpaced the value of the bike, however if the customer was OK with it, then we did what we could, but were unable to guarantee long term success.
Finally about 4 years ago we stopped taking them in as they always came back with complaints because something was not working right and it became our problem even though that something was nothing we were involved in. In the long run those bikes became a liability for the shop in terms of customer satisfaction and wrench time.

Jeff Neese

That's what every bike shop owner has told me, at least the ones that I have frequented. They can take that Walmart bike and get it "working" but they know it's coming back and the customer expects them to fix it again once things get out of whack.

We have some friends with cheap department-store bikes, which after a few months sat in their garage unused because something went wrong. I offered to put the bikes on my stand and make them at least road-worthy. I succeeded, but there's only so much you can do with a product that's designed to sell for literally the lowest possible price. I explained that the things I was adjusting/tightening would soon fail again.

Someone (I think it was Huffy) did a study that revealed the average department-store bike (which would also include tire stores) has a total lifespan of around 76 miles before they get put away in the garage, never to be ridden again. I don't remember the conclusion - whether it's cause-and-effect, meaning that people stopped riding because their cheap bike stopped working and wasn't much fun to ride in the first place, or simply correlation because the people who buy those bikes were never going to take up cycling in a serious way anyway. Probably a little of both.

Kai Winters

You wrote four paragraphs and I can't quite figure out what you are talking about, questioning, complaining about, etc etc etc.
I'm a bike shop wrench and have been for 30ish years. I've worked on dumpster finds and one TdF TT bike ridden by a TdF rider. I've been able to service all of them and I'm no genius, just a decent wrench.
Generally all Shimano parts are interchangeable...at least all the basic stuff...and Micro Shift is generally compatible with everything and works quite well.
Were it me in your shoes I be a bit introspective regarding what the hell you want, expect, etc. as well as finding a bike shop that works on everything. Some shops don't want to waste time with 'crap' bikes. Why? I have no idea...service is service and at our bike shop we service far more 'crap' bikes than high end bikes. Generally they are also easier to work on as well.
I'm more curious as to your riding ability, style, expectations, etc. compared to your complaints, questions, etc.

wheelreason

We love it when dept stores, big box, and other retailers sell cheap bikes. We either end up fixing them, or having the customer return them, and buying something from us. It is about communication and setting expectations. Yes, it requires work and time, but if it's billed and documented properly folks can get as upset as they want, but since they are getting upset at themselves, and they should have gone with our recommendation #1 it's all good. I usually use it to train new wrenches. Finally,, while there are certainly a bunch of really crappy bikes at these places, there are some that are perfectly adequate for entry level recreational use, just stay away from the full suspension MTBs and the like, those should be sold at boatings stores with some chain, a shackle and 300 ft of three strand....

OP, post closeups of the specific things you are trying to fix, and we can tell what's what, without guessing or speculating.

Ravenous007

I guess I’m looking for validation that some bike experts can be total jerks to non-serious folk like me… and trying to gauge if that’s the norm. There’s currently nothing wrong with the bike, but I had another terrible experience when I went to get some brake pads. But I guess you answered my question anyways.

roadcrankr

A friend of mine bought a Walmart mountain bike a few years back.
After his first ride, he asked me over to look at it, because it did not function properly.
He did not tell me, in advance, where he bought it. The minute I first saw it, I could tell it came from a dept store.
Turns out, the freewheel lockring came loose and bearings came tumbling out.
I gave him the harsh facts-of-life to buy from a bike shop and take the POS back to Walmart.
He paid four times his original outlay, but still rides that replacement bike all over the place - ten years later!

RB1-luvr

Not all bike shops look down their noses at people with lower end bikes. My team's shop sells high end bikes, and services China big box store bikes with no judgement. They are all about keeping people who want to ride, riding, regardless of their budget. I hope the OP can find a nicer LBS.

I like someone's suggestion to find a used high-quality hybrid.

3alarmer 

...I guess I don't understand why you're not buying your parts online ? Usually there's a much better selection than your average in stock stuff at a local LBS. And the pricing is pretty competitive. A lot of the stuff on Amazon has free delivery, above a certain minimum order. I can see buying parts like brake shoes at a store you like, and want to support. But you seem not to have access to one of those.

There are jerks in all the mechanical trades. It's just a fact of life. But there are jerks everywhere...surely you've met some elsewhere ?

smd4

Googling "CCM hard tail from Canadian tire," and assuming what I found is correct, it doesn't *look* like there is anything un-serviceable on the bike. With the added caveat that I have had no first-hand experience with that particular bike. But we need better descriptions of what you mean when you said something "broke." Things "breaking" on a bike is far less a common occurrence than things "not working right" or being "out of adjustment."

Is this the bike?

As people have said before, you're going to have to help us help you. No one here can read minds or telepathically figure out what the problems are.