Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Need Help Identifying Mystery Frame with Nice Chrome and Beautiful Chrome Fork Crown

Search
Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Need Help Identifying Mystery Frame with Nice Chrome and Beautiful Chrome Fork Crown

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 09-03-23, 05:10 PM
  #1  
Sactown_Albert 
Full Member
Thread Starter
 
Sactown_Albert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 401

Bikes: 2017 Sage Skyline, 2015 Co-Motion Periscope Tandem, 2012 Soma Smoothie, 2006 Kona Jake, 1986 Miyata Nine Twelve, 1977 Peugeot UO18c, 1977 Peugeot PRN10, 1974 Allegro Schweitzermeister Model 76, 1972 Hugo Rickert Spezial

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 116 Post(s)
Liked 601 Times in 191 Posts
Need Help Identifying Mystery Frame with Nice Chrome and Beautiful Chrome Fork Crown

I am really stumped with identifying this one. No remnants of any decals and it looks like it was crudely repainted, including the wide red band on the seat tube.

Seems to be late 60s to 70s frame given that it has no cable guides (not even a rear derailleur stop) or bottle bosses, but it does have a threaded derailleur hanger. Chromed, ornate lugs on head tube and chromed rear triangle. Fork is completely chrome with a very slight slant to the crown. Has openings in the side of the crown that give it a bit of a bi-plane vibe. All of the chrome cleaned up really nicely with very little effort which is why I’m interested in figuring this one out and properly badging it after a repaint.

Forged dropouts on fork are stamped “Y.C.F” and the steerer tube has “F6F” stamped on it. I thought the fork may have been aftermarket, but on closer examination, the finish work on the dropouts on the fork and rear triangle have a very similar sweep to their transition to the frame that suggests it was the original fork.

Bottom bracket is threaded ISO/English. Shimano BB I suspect was a later add.

Had remnants of a Tange Falcon headset with English threading and the steerer tube inner diameter is 22.2.

Seatpost opening measured 25.4 to 25.8 so not a particularly high end tubing, but the frame feels fairly light, so it is not gas pipe either.

Rear hub diameter measured 127 mm so I suspect it was cold set from its original 120.

Feels like a nice Japanese production bike but the lack of any serial numbers gives me pause.

Any insights would be most welcome. Below are some photos and here is a Google album link with the photos I took today.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/rkr5PXTqdKvK4fLV7










Sactown_Albert is offline  
Old 09-03-23, 05:14 PM
  #2  
Sactown_Albert 
Full Member
Thread Starter
 
Sactown_Albert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 401

Bikes: 2017 Sage Skyline, 2015 Co-Motion Periscope Tandem, 2012 Soma Smoothie, 2006 Kona Jake, 1986 Miyata Nine Twelve, 1977 Peugeot UO18c, 1977 Peugeot PRN10, 1974 Allegro Schweitzermeister Model 76, 1972 Hugo Rickert Spezial

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 116 Post(s)
Liked 601 Times in 191 Posts
Overall shot of bike.

Sactown_Albert is offline  
Old 09-03-23, 05:16 PM
  #3  
jdawginsc 
Edumacator
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Goose Creek, SC
Posts: 6,829

Bikes: '87 Crestdale, '87 Basso Gap, '92 Rossin Performance EL-OS, 1990 VanTuyl, 1980s Losa, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 1987 PX10, etc...

Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2444 Post(s)
Liked 3,137 Times in 1,976 Posts
That’s not stove pipe, that’s beautiful. Thinking of a repaint to set off those lugs, drops and forks?

Definitely a 60s-70s vibe like the early Centurions. Maybe a connection?

@MauriceMoss
__________________
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super












jdawginsc is online now  
Likes For jdawginsc:
Old 09-03-23, 05:29 PM
  #4  
clubman 
Phyllo-buster
 
clubman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 8,847

Bikes: roadsters, club bikes, fixed and classic

Mentioned: 133 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2298 Post(s)
Liked 2,055 Times in 1,255 Posts
I too thought Centurion, maybe from the 70's but they seemed to prefer long points

clubman is offline  
Old 09-03-23, 06:02 PM
  #5  
jdawginsc 
Edumacator
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Goose Creek, SC
Posts: 6,829

Bikes: '87 Crestdale, '87 Basso Gap, '92 Rossin Performance EL-OS, 1990 VanTuyl, 1980s Losa, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 1987 PX10, etc...

Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2444 Post(s)
Liked 3,137 Times in 1,976 Posts
Originally Posted by clubman
I too thought Centurion, maybe from the 70's but they seemed to prefer long points

I don’t think it is a Centurion per se, but I wonder if there is a loose connection...?

I am no expert...
__________________
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super












jdawginsc is online now  
Old 09-03-23, 06:04 PM
  #6  
clubman 
Phyllo-buster
 
clubman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 8,847

Bikes: roadsters, club bikes, fixed and classic

Mentioned: 133 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2298 Post(s)
Liked 2,055 Times in 1,255 Posts
Lesser model?
clubman is offline  
Old 09-03-23, 06:53 PM
  #7  
MauriceMoss
Senior Member
 
MauriceMoss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 522

Bikes: None in ridable condition

Mentioned: 125 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 148 Post(s)
Liked 644 Times in 192 Posts
It looks like an early 1970s Fuji 'The Finest'. Surprising that there is no serial number on it - can you check the lower part of the seat tube on the non-drive side for any sign of indentation? That's where the numbers usually were around this time.





Here's that tiny bit of overhang on the seat stay caps:






Lugs and fork crown. I think they changed out the crown by mid-70s:



MauriceMoss is offline  
Old 09-03-23, 07:15 PM
  #8  
bykemike 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: st augustine fl
Posts: 1,003

Bikes: 2017 BMC Roadmachine 01 Enve wheels, Sram red etap,Cinelli Vigorelli single speed, 2009 Cannondale Capo, 2016 trek Domane 6.9, disc and Di2, 2016 Scott Scale 710, 27.5 plus tires and boost rims

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 110 Post(s)
Liked 203 Times in 81 Posts
It resembles my late 70's Rex Criterium, almost def higher end Japanese to my eye, My Rex was almost all chrome but only polished at select areas. The lugs were very much like the OP is showing. Nervex lugs maybe?

araya criterium rex - Pedal Room
__________________
"ready to navigate"

Last edited by bykemike; 09-03-23 at 07:24 PM.
bykemike is offline  
Likes For bykemike:
Old 09-03-23, 07:24 PM
  #9  
Chuckk
Groupetto Dragon-Ass
 
Chuckk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lostin Austin, TX
Posts: 617
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 415 Post(s)
Liked 787 Times in 372 Posts
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...rvex-lugs.html
Chuckk is offline  
Old 09-03-23, 08:23 PM
  #10  
RCMoeur 
Cantilever believer
 
RCMoeur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2021
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,572
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 538 Post(s)
Liked 1,846 Times in 835 Posts
Originally Posted by MauriceMoss
"Give it some rest and some antivirals and that should clear up in about two weeks."
__________________
Richard C. Moeur, PE - Phoenix AZ, USA
https://www.richardcmoeur.com/bikestuf.html
RCMoeur is offline  
Likes For RCMoeur:
Old 09-03-23, 09:23 PM
  #11  
machinist42
mycocyclist
 
machinist42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Monkey Junction, Wilmington, NC
Posts: 1,236

Bikes: 1964 Schwinn Paramount P-13 DeLuxe, 1964 Schwinn Sport Super Sport, 1972 Falcon San Remo, 1974 Maserati MT-1, 1974 Raleigh International, 1984 Lotus Odyssey, 198? Rossin Ghibli, 1990 LeMond Le Vanquer (sic), 1991 Specialized Allez Transition Pro, +

Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 910 Post(s)
Liked 822 Times in 453 Posts
If You Squint...

Originally Posted by MauriceMoss
It looks like an early 1970s Fuji 'The Finest'. Surprising that there is no serial number on it - can you check the lower part of the seat tube on the non-drive side for any sign of indentation? That's where the numbers usually were around this time.


machinist42 is offline  
Old 09-03-23, 10:22 PM
  #12  
unworthy1
Stop reading my posts!
 
unworthy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,584
Mentioned: 90 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1444 Post(s)
Liked 1,064 Times in 788 Posts
the headlugs are "Nervex Inspired" but definitely of JP origin. Fuji was a prime user of these lugs but there were a few others, I don't know if the maker was ever ID'd.
unworthy1 is offline  
Old 09-03-23, 11:51 PM
  #13  
Sactown_Albert 
Full Member
Thread Starter
 
Sactown_Albert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 401

Bikes: 2017 Sage Skyline, 2015 Co-Motion Periscope Tandem, 2012 Soma Smoothie, 2006 Kona Jake, 1986 Miyata Nine Twelve, 1977 Peugeot UO18c, 1977 Peugeot PRN10, 1974 Allegro Schweitzermeister Model 76, 1972 Hugo Rickert Spezial

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 116 Post(s)
Liked 601 Times in 191 Posts
Pretty Sure it is a Fuji the Finest

Thank you for all the replies. Having pulled up a number of early 70s Fuji “The Finest” photos, it appears that is what this is. The lugs are an exact match and the head tube rivet holes line up with the very wide Fuji head badge in use back then. I have a first generation Shimano Dura Ace group set I have been looking to match with the right frame. Looks like this will be an interesting project.

With VeloCals being gone, going to be a bit of a challenge finding the right decals for it. Any suggestions are welcome. Also, if anyone has an early 70s Fuji head badge separate from a frame, drop me a line.


Sactown_Albert is offline  
Old 09-04-23, 12:04 AM
  #14  
abdon 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,378
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 427 Post(s)
Liked 471 Times in 249 Posts
Centurion did use those lugs but the combo of the fork and the position of the head badge stud really points out to the Fuji.
abdon is offline  
Likes For abdon:
Old 09-04-23, 02:29 AM
  #15  
oneclick 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 2,820
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1106 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,328 Times in 784 Posts
Originally Posted by MauriceMoss
Dab hand with the drill - and an internally relevant aesthetic.
Whoever, well done.
oneclick is offline  
Likes For oneclick:
Old 09-04-23, 06:56 AM
  #16  
sd5782 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Toledo Ohio
Posts: 1,497

Bikes: 1964 Huffy Sportsman, 1972 Fuji Newest, 1973 Schwinn Super Sport (3), 1982 Trek 412, 1983 Trek 700, 1989 Miyata 1000LT, 1991 Bianchi Boardwalk, plus others

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 583 Post(s)
Liked 700 Times in 395 Posts
Lots of love around for The Finest. You should be pleased with the project.
sd5782 is offline  
Old 09-04-23, 10:46 AM
  #17  
MrGastrognome
Quasi homeostatic system
 
Join Date: Nov 2022
Posts: 111

Bikes: '81 Fuji America, '82 Team Fuji, '85 Nishiki Bel Air, '98 Klein Stage Comp R

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked 199 Times in 74 Posts
There's a couple head badges on ebay that sadly don't appear to be in a condition worthy of a full resto. Hopefully someone here has one as some jerk just bought the nicest one off of ebay this week for their '81 America...

MrGastrognome is offline  
Likes For MrGastrognome:
Old 09-04-23, 12:51 PM
  #18  
MrGastrognome
Quasi homeostatic system
 
Join Date: Nov 2022
Posts: 111

Bikes: '81 Fuji America, '82 Team Fuji, '85 Nishiki Bel Air, '98 Klein Stage Comp R

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked 199 Times in 74 Posts
Originally Posted by Sactown_Albert
Thank you for all the replies. Having pulled up a number of early 70s Fuji “The Finest” photos, it appears that is what this is. The lugs are an exact match and the head tube rivet holes line up with the very wide Fuji head badge in use back then. I have a first generation Shimano Dura Ace group set I have been looking to match with the right frame. Looks like this will be an interesting project.

With VeloCals being gone, going to be a bit of a challenge finding the right decals for it. Any suggestions are welcome. Also, if anyone has an early 70s Fuji head badge separate from a frame, drop me a line.
Well, good news... Looks like the America takes a narrower head badge than I expected. So the badge in my previous post is available. It measures 45mm at the rivet holes. I paid $30 and it's already here in Sac.
MrGastrognome is offline  
Old 09-04-23, 07:19 PM
  #19  
Sactown_Albert 
Full Member
Thread Starter
 
Sactown_Albert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 401

Bikes: 2017 Sage Skyline, 2015 Co-Motion Periscope Tandem, 2012 Soma Smoothie, 2006 Kona Jake, 1986 Miyata Nine Twelve, 1977 Peugeot UO18c, 1977 Peugeot PRN10, 1974 Allegro Schweitzermeister Model 76, 1972 Hugo Rickert Spezial

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 116 Post(s)
Liked 601 Times in 191 Posts
Now I have More Questions than Answers

I uncovered the serial number on the non drive side of the lower down tube. It appears to be “6F06068” which doesn’t seem to match the Fuji serial number protocols since the first digit is a number and the second is a letter. Having now looked at a number of vintage Fujis, it is possible the Frame is a Fuji newest. Seems like they were the exact frame, but the color scheme matches a Newest and I found no evidence of blue when l used paint stripper to uncover the serial number. If the first 6 is the Showa calendar number, then the frame is a 1971. Thoughts?
Sactown_Albert is offline  
Likes For Sactown_Albert:
Old 09-04-23, 07:43 PM
  #20  
machinist42
mycocyclist
 
machinist42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Monkey Junction, Wilmington, NC
Posts: 1,236

Bikes: 1964 Schwinn Paramount P-13 DeLuxe, 1964 Schwinn Sport Super Sport, 1972 Falcon San Remo, 1974 Maserati MT-1, 1974 Raleigh International, 1984 Lotus Odyssey, 198? Rossin Ghibli, 1990 LeMond Le Vanquer (sic), 1991 Specialized Allez Transition Pro, +

Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 910 Post(s)
Liked 822 Times in 453 Posts
"F" Is For Faint?

Originally Posted by Sactown_Albert
I uncovered the serial number on the non drive side of the lower down tube. It appears to be “6F06068” which doesn’t seem to match the Fuji serial number protocols since the first digit is a number and the second is a letter. Having now looked at a number of vintage Fujis, it is possible the Frame is a Fuji newest. Seems like they were the exact frame, but the color scheme matches a Newest and I found no evidence of blue when l used paint stripper to uncover the serial number. If the first 6 is the Showa calendar number, then the frame is a 1971. Thoughts?
Isn't that the seat tube?

Could that be a very lightly struck "F" indicating the production facility in front of that first "6"?

(A side light might highlight it.)

machinist42 is offline  
Likes For machinist42:
Old 09-04-23, 07:43 PM
  #21  
Hummer
Senior Member
 
Hummer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Rupert's Land
Posts: 1,243

Bikes: 1981 Raleigh GP, 1985 Norco Bush Pilot, . . .

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 241 Post(s)
Liked 187 Times in 136 Posts
Originally Posted by Sactown_Albert
I uncovered the serial number on the non drive side of the lower down tube. It appears to be “6F06068” which doesn’t seem to match the Fuji serial number protocols since the first digit is a number and the second is a letter. Having now looked at a number of vintage Fujis, it is possible the Frame is a Fuji newest. Seems like they were the exact frame, but the color scheme matches a Newest and I found no evidence of blue when l used paint stripper to uncover the serial number. If the first 6 is the Showa calendar number, then the frame is a 1971. Thoughts?
Yes to Showa year 46 for 1971 as the year of frame manufacture. From the picture I would suggest that there is a faint "F" preceding the "6". The fork also has F6F which matches the serial number.

Edit: machinist42 just beat me.
Hummer is offline  
Likes For Hummer:
Old 09-04-23, 07:54 PM
  #22  
MrGastrognome
Quasi homeostatic system
 
Join Date: Nov 2022
Posts: 111

Bikes: '81 Fuji America, '82 Team Fuji, '85 Nishiki Bel Air, '98 Klein Stage Comp R

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked 199 Times in 74 Posts
Originally Posted by Sactown_Albert
I uncovered the serial number on the non drive side of the lower down tube. It appears to be “6F06068” which doesn’t seem to match the Fuji serial number protocols since the first digit is a number and the second is a letter. Having now looked at a number of vintage Fujis, it is possible the Frame is a Fuji newest. Seems like they were the exact frame, but the color scheme matches a Newest and I found no evidence of blue when l used paint stripper to uncover the serial number. If the first 6 is the Showa calendar number, then the frame is a 1971. Thoughts?
The seven visible letters and numbers make me suspect that there might be a lightly struck "F" on the left side. If so, then it would follow the conventional '71-'74 8 digit serial numbers.

Update: Glad to see others seeing the F.

Last edited by MrGastrognome; 09-04-23 at 07:55 PM. Reason: update
MrGastrognome is offline  
Old 09-04-23, 08:23 PM
  #23  
sd5782 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Toledo Ohio
Posts: 1,497

Bikes: 1964 Huffy Sportsman, 1972 Fuji Newest, 1973 Schwinn Super Sport (3), 1982 Trek 412, 1983 Trek 700, 1989 Miyata 1000LT, 1991 Bianchi Boardwalk, plus others

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 583 Post(s)
Liked 700 Times in 395 Posts

Not a Newest. The frames actually were quite a bit different. I have a 72 Newest. Serial number is on the bottom bracket also. Different lugs and seat stay treatment. Suntour dropouts and different fork crown too.






Last edited by sd5782; 09-04-23 at 08:28 PM.
sd5782 is offline  
Old 09-05-23, 01:59 AM
  #24  
etherhuffer 
Senior Member
 
etherhuffer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: West Seattle
Posts: 1,421

Bikes: Surly Long Haul Trucker,81 Fuji Gran Tour SE, 83 Fuji S12S LTD, Voyageur 11.8 chrome, Raleigh R300 Touring, Voyageur 11.8

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 283 Post(s)
Liked 503 Times in 228 Posts
Check the integrity of the braze where the seat stay meets the seat tube. Some these would crack along the plug and then turn 90 degrees across the tube.
__________________
"It's a fine line between absolute genius and sheer stupidity"
etherhuffer is offline  
Old 09-05-23, 10:39 AM
  #25  
Sactown_Albert 
Full Member
Thread Starter
 
Sactown_Albert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 401

Bikes: 2017 Sage Skyline, 2015 Co-Motion Periscope Tandem, 2012 Soma Smoothie, 2006 Kona Jake, 1986 Miyata Nine Twelve, 1977 Peugeot UO18c, 1977 Peugeot PRN10, 1974 Allegro Schweitzermeister Model 76, 1972 Hugo Rickert Spezial

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 116 Post(s)
Liked 601 Times in 191 Posts
There is a faint F

Thank for the sharp eyes. There IS a faint “F” at the beginning which DOES line up with JP serial number protocols for a Fuji. Thanks for the heads up about the stamping on the steerer tube showing the “F6F” which reinforced that there is a faint F at the beginning of the serial number and that this is the fork that came with it.

According to T-Mar’s excellent Asian serial number guide in the C&V sticky section: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...ber-guide.html the whole serial number can be interpreted as follows:
  • The first F is the Fuji facility where it was made.
  • The 6 is Showa year, which is 1971.
  • The second F is the month of June.
  • The remaining numbers are the serial number of this particular bike.
The hive mind does it again!

I will post updates as I move along with this project. Going to be a fun one!
Sactown_Albert is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.