Best Shifter Cables
04-27-14, 07:08 PM
#2
SuperGimp
What makes a shifter cable "best" to you?
I've had good luck with jagwire cables and they're pretty reasonably priced too. I've also recently used Gore Ride-on (no longer made) and DuraAce cables and frankly, I don't know if I can tell the difference when they're new. "people" also swear by yokozuna but I've heard they're finicky to set up and I'm not really a fan of finicky, but they're also reputedly good cables.
I've had good luck with jagwire cables and they're pretty reasonably priced too. I've also recently used Gore Ride-on (no longer made) and DuraAce cables and frankly, I don't know if I can tell the difference when they're new. "people" also swear by yokozuna but I've heard they're finicky to set up and I'm not really a fan of finicky, but they're also reputedly good cables.
04-27-14, 07:14 PM
#3
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I may also need a crash course in cables. I haven't given them much thought beyond checking them and getting Wal-Mart brand cables (easiest to get) if I have any questions. Oh yeah, I fill them with marine grease. 
04-27-14, 07:29 PM
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Everytime this question comes up, so does Jagwire. Here's a color chart. Now to go find the best prices. I have to replace my FD cable - it has a broken strand under the bottom bracket.
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Last edited by RoadTire; 04-27-14 at 08:33 PM.
04-27-14, 07:37 PM
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Two worthwhile features in gear wires. Stainless steel for no rust and a smoother finish than possible with galvanized wires.
Die drawn, where the finished cable is run through a die squashing the outside strands into a smoother unit. To understand what die drawn means, take 19 pennies and arrange them with one in the middle and six around it, then another 12 around that. That's roughly what 19 strand wires are.
So there are highs and lows around the outer surface. Now imagine if the outer layer is squashed to form a smooth circle. Obviously wire with a smooth surface will have lower friction moving through the housing.
Other features include teflon coatings which some believe in, but I find to wear off fairly quickly.
Also, make sure the housing is of the compressionless type where the steel strands run almost lengthwise. There are small quality differences, but IME, square cuts at the ends, and use of proper ferrules make a bigger difference than any quality difference in the housing itself.
I hope this helps. There are various brands out there, but shopping features should steer you straight.
Die drawn, where the finished cable is run through a die squashing the outside strands into a smoother unit. To understand what die drawn means, take 19 pennies and arrange them with one in the middle and six around it, then another 12 around that. That's roughly what 19 strand wires are.
So there are highs and lows around the outer surface. Now imagine if the outer layer is squashed to form a smooth circle. Obviously wire with a smooth surface will have lower friction moving through the housing.
Other features include teflon coatings which some believe in, but I find to wear off fairly quickly.
Also, make sure the housing is of the compressionless type where the steel strands run almost lengthwise. There are small quality differences, but IME, square cuts at the ends, and use of proper ferrules make a bigger difference than any quality difference in the housing itself.
I hope this helps. There are various brands out there, but shopping features should steer you straight.
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04-27-14, 07:45 PM
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Sure are glad you are here as you always have solid information. How can we tell if the cables are die drawn? Also I've read before about teflon coating being less-than permanent and somewhat problematic. I'm not sure the Jagwire are all coated or if some are not coated. Seems hard to find that info. More searching...
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04-27-14, 07:49 PM
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OTOH- you can simply read the label, or specs. However, "die-drawn" might not be stated that way, it might say something like "ultra smooth surface" or whatever.
Unless they changed names or specs. the Jagwire "hyper" series cables have the features I look for, without those I don't.
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04-27-14, 07:52 PM
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Jagwire and Shimano's top line cables are both stainless steel and die drawn so either will work very well. Avoid cables advertised as "galvanized" or "zinc coated" (and stay out of Wal-Mart 
).
As to Teflon coating, I've never seen any benefit in shifting performance and you MUST scrape off the coating where the cable is clamped to the derailleur's clamp bolt or the cable will slip no matter how tight you make the bolt.
). As to Teflon coating, I've never seen any benefit in shifting performance and you MUST scrape off the coating where the cable is clamped to the derailleur's clamp bolt or the cable will slip no matter how tight you make the bolt.
04-27-14, 08:37 PM
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Dang, can't find the price (< $30 + sh for the whole shifter and brake kit) and color I want (titanium) in the Jag's, time to look at Shimano. I figure I might as well plan on replacing everything, if I just replace the FD cable I'll probably have to go back and do it again later replacing the housing, and I don't want mis-matched housings.
Thanks wolfgame, for starting the thread...
Thanks wolfgame, for starting the thread...
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04-27-14, 08:46 PM
#11
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Campy.
I just rebuilt my commuter with all Shimano, but I used leftover Campy shifter housing as the shifters came with cable but no housing. And of course it was leftover from my Chorus 10 bike.
I just rebuilt my commuter with all Shimano, but I used leftover Campy shifter housing as the shifters came with cable but no housing. And of course it was leftover from my Chorus 10 bike.
04-27-14, 09:30 PM
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Die-drawn, AKA slick or smooth cables are hard to get hold of in Oz for some stupid reason.
And it's tough to order them online, because the world of online retail leaves a bloody lot to be desired in terms of listing product specs; whether a cable is die-drawn or not seems to be mostly a matter of guesswork.
I spent days a while back trying to find a bulk pack (of whatever brand as long as it was die-drawn) for work, but in the end we had to give up and just go for Shimano. Despite the fact 100 cables is a bit of a spend, and you'd expect to find all the pertinent info on a product when you're shelling out that much. Bloody PITA.
Does anyone know a DD gear cable available in 100 packs that's cheaper than Shimano and works in their stupid aero 10s gear?
The other part of the equation is housing; I haven't noticed any functional difference between the Shimano stuff and Jagwire's 4 or 5mm stuff, except the Shimano housing comes with grease inside.
A slight improvement (getting closer to truly compressionless) can be had by going to segmented AKA articulated housing; the sort made from little ally or ceramic beads...
Nokon is perhaps the most famous, but it's super-expensive (it's German). It uses ~10mm long ally beads and comes in two sorts for gears, but stay away from the Slimline housing (unless you really want the placebo-level aero improvement); it requires 1.1mm cable which is a hassle (although I've found 1.1mm cables have noticeably less friction than 1.2mm cables).
Vertebrae is another shockingly expensive system which is a bit different in that it uses an external plastic sleeve over the beads in addition to the internal sleeve, and the beads are only ~5mm long and come in ally or super-light ceramic (segmented housing is already lighter than normal).
Alligator i-Link is actually pretty cheap and is a blingy way to lose a little weight, but it's not of the same quality as Nokon or Vertebrae so it only makes a slight functional improvement over standard housing. But a set is only about $40 and you can get it with free shipping from numerous Taiwanese Ebay vendors; this guy is the cheapest I've found. Kinda dumb it doesn't come in gold; orange is no substitute. Beads are ~10mm or so; it's poor man's Nokon.
And there's another sort from some mob called Aztek, but given the lack of Google results I'd guess it isn't on the market anymore. An externally sleeved system using ~5mm (cast rather than machined) beads, it got crap reviews so that probably explains it. I came across some used stuff, and painstakingly twirled a drillbit into one end of many beads so they'd fit over i-Link sleeve, and used them to extend from the i-Link under the bar tape (being held rigidly against the bars negates its crapness) - that way I was able to use a single gear set to do both my gears and brakes on this bike:
I think I pulled it off without a bead to spare, with each cable having like 1 bead of i-link under the tape. So that's how much you get in the i-Link gear set; IIRC there's enough spare sleeve for all this too, including a full-length run for the rear brake. Note the RD loop is a bit short for Campy or Shimano; no problem for SRAM though since the upper pivot only moves for wheel removal. For some reason this stuff can do tighter curves with less friction.
...Although not as tight as claimed by Nokon - the reason I bought Slimline in the first place for my other bike was because they said I could run the gear cables under the tape with old STI... bulls**t.
Setting up this stuff is a relatively epic mission, requiring you to get your head around one or two new wrinkles, particularly regarding just handling the stuff without your work vanishing as beads bounce all over the floor, or length before/after the beads are compressed together, but once you have it down it's not a huge deal. And this is forever housing; you only ever need to replace the liner.
If you copy/paste the Velospace links under my av, you can see two sets of i-Link and one set of Slimline doing both brakes and gears on three bikes (one with no rear brake), with the help of the aforementioned Aztek. The Shimergo bike with the Slimline also has the Nokon under-tape extenders on the bars (basically just normal brake housing without a plastic cover and with nice ferrules).
And it's tough to order them online, because the world of online retail leaves a bloody lot to be desired in terms of listing product specs; whether a cable is die-drawn or not seems to be mostly a matter of guesswork.
I spent days a while back trying to find a bulk pack (of whatever brand as long as it was die-drawn) for work, but in the end we had to give up and just go for Shimano. Despite the fact 100 cables is a bit of a spend, and you'd expect to find all the pertinent info on a product when you're shelling out that much. Bloody PITA.
Does anyone know a DD gear cable available in 100 packs that's cheaper than Shimano and works in their stupid aero 10s gear?
The other part of the equation is housing; I haven't noticed any functional difference between the Shimano stuff and Jagwire's 4 or 5mm stuff, except the Shimano housing comes with grease inside.
A slight improvement (getting closer to truly compressionless) can be had by going to segmented AKA articulated housing; the sort made from little ally or ceramic beads...
Nokon is perhaps the most famous, but it's super-expensive (it's German). It uses ~10mm long ally beads and comes in two sorts for gears, but stay away from the Slimline housing (unless you really want the placebo-level aero improvement); it requires 1.1mm cable which is a hassle (although I've found 1.1mm cables have noticeably less friction than 1.2mm cables).
Vertebrae is another shockingly expensive system which is a bit different in that it uses an external plastic sleeve over the beads in addition to the internal sleeve, and the beads are only ~5mm long and come in ally or super-light ceramic (segmented housing is already lighter than normal).
Alligator i-Link is actually pretty cheap and is a blingy way to lose a little weight, but it's not of the same quality as Nokon or Vertebrae so it only makes a slight functional improvement over standard housing. But a set is only about $40 and you can get it with free shipping from numerous Taiwanese Ebay vendors; this guy is the cheapest I've found. Kinda dumb it doesn't come in gold; orange is no substitute. Beads are ~10mm or so; it's poor man's Nokon.
And there's another sort from some mob called Aztek, but given the lack of Google results I'd guess it isn't on the market anymore. An externally sleeved system using ~5mm (cast rather than machined) beads, it got crap reviews so that probably explains it. I came across some used stuff, and painstakingly twirled a drillbit into one end of many beads so they'd fit over i-Link sleeve, and used them to extend from the i-Link under the bar tape (being held rigidly against the bars negates its crapness) - that way I was able to use a single gear set to do both my gears and brakes on this bike:
I think I pulled it off without a bead to spare, with each cable having like 1 bead of i-link under the tape. So that's how much you get in the i-Link gear set; IIRC there's enough spare sleeve for all this too, including a full-length run for the rear brake. Note the RD loop is a bit short for Campy or Shimano; no problem for SRAM though since the upper pivot only moves for wheel removal. For some reason this stuff can do tighter curves with less friction.
...Although not as tight as claimed by Nokon - the reason I bought Slimline in the first place for my other bike was because they said I could run the gear cables under the tape with old STI... bulls**t.
Setting up this stuff is a relatively epic mission, requiring you to get your head around one or two new wrinkles, particularly regarding just handling the stuff without your work vanishing as beads bounce all over the floor, or length before/after the beads are compressed together, but once you have it down it's not a huge deal. And this is forever housing; you only ever need to replace the liner.
If you copy/paste the Velospace links under my av, you can see two sets of i-Link and one set of Slimline doing both brakes and gears on three bikes (one with no rear brake), with the help of the aforementioned Aztek. The Shimergo bike with the Slimline also has the Nokon under-tape extenders on the bars (basically just normal brake housing without a plastic cover and with nice ferrules).
Last edited by Kimmo; 04-27-14 at 09:47 PM.
04-27-14, 10:25 PM
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Dang, can't find the price (< $30 + sh for the whole shifter and brake kit) and color I want (titanium) in the Jag's, time to look at Shimano. I figure I might as well plan on replacing everything, if I just replace the FD cable I'll probably have to go back and do it again later replacing the housing, and I don't want mis-matched housings.
Thanks wolfgame, for starting the thread...
Thanks wolfgame, for starting the thread...
04-27-14, 10:33 PM
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Maybe you're looking for these? Universal Cycles -- Jagwire Road Pro "Racer" Road Cable & Housing Kit - Includes Brake & Derailleur Cable/Housing
04-28-14, 07:46 AM
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Maybe I'm not fussy enough but I've always bought Jagwire or Shimano's stainless steel cables and bulk housings for both brake and shifter use and never had any problems with either performance or durability. The only exception was the Campy housing and cables that came OEM with my Chorus 10-speed group. They worked well but when they wore out, I replaced them with Jagwire double-end shift cables and cut off the Shimano end.
04-28-14, 08:55 AM
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Maybe you're looking for these? Universal Cycles -- Jagwire Road Pro "Racer" Road Cable & Housing Kit - Includes Brake & Derailleur Cable/Housing
What are you seeing, Kimmo? I'm not familiar enough with cables and houseings - wouldn't I want to change the housing no matter the type, if I get kinks or damage through the housing?
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04-28-14, 09:13 AM
#17
Banned
LBS here buys die drawn cables in bulk, Zn treated.. and SS cables in Each hang tag packed .. 2X the each price .
the Fully enclosed cable gets a layer of grease on it as it is installed on my bike .. then Zn treated is adequate..
(and easier to solder where I will cut off the end)
Its the opposite of a Tri - bike..
the Fully enclosed cable gets a layer of grease on it as it is installed on my bike .. then Zn treated is adequate..
(and easier to solder where I will cut off the end)
Its the opposite of a Tri - bike..
04-28-14, 09:24 AM
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Nothing lost with the Teflon coating. If it lasts, great, if not, it doesn't cost much with Jagwire. And the normal slick liner on the outer cable is still included so you are not depending on the the Teflon alone. Theirs is a paint type coating not the filmy coating on the Gore cables that shreds off. With the paint coating, if it comes off, you just see bare spots on the wire, but no mess. The Jagwire Pro Road Kit at less than $40 really can't be beat. Both shifter and brake cables and all the proper ferrules and other small parts. Quite a deal.
04-28-14, 02:53 PM
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Nothing lost with the Teflon coating. If it lasts, great, if not, it doesn't cost much with Jagwire. And the normal slick liner on the outer cable is still included so you are not depending on the the Teflon alone. Theirs is a paint type coating not the filmy coating on the Gore cables that shreds off. With the paint coating, if it comes off, you just see bare spots on the wire, but no mess. The Jagwire Pro Road Kit at less than $40 really can't be beat. Both shifter and brake cables and all the proper ferrules and other small parts. Quite a deal.
04-28-14, 03:44 PM
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It can't hurt to be extra careful, but I have never experienced any slippage at the fixing bolts with these cables. I'm pretty sure the tightening action automatically bares the cable at that spot.
04-28-14, 03:49 PM
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I thought so too until the cable at the rear derailleur slipped for the second time despite the bolt being tightened as much as I thought reasonable. I scraped off the coating and the problem never reoccurred.
04-28-14, 04:11 PM
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Good to know. Thanks.
04-28-14, 09:53 PM
#23
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I've got an alfine 8 hub, which has a little bolt and nut that clamps to the cable, and then fits into the hub (the cassette joint, but who's countin?) to do the shifting. if it moves, the shifting gets screwy. Now that you mention this, I'm pretty sure this is what's happening to me. It keeps slipping a little bit, and I run out of barrel adjuster to keep the hub shifting properly. I'll check that, since I've got a jagwire coated cable there....
