Do caliper brakes require external cabling?
#1
we be rollin'
Thread Starter
Do caliper brakes require external cabling?
I wanted to buy a frame partly because of the tire clearance but it has internal cabling. It's made for disc brakes but I have a regular wheelset. So should I just buy Problem Solvers adapters to use external cabling?
I know how to measure caliper brake reach, just wanted to know what is workable.
I know how to measure caliper brake reach, just wanted to know what is workable.
#2
Senior Member
Does the frame and fork have a brake mounting hole? Does the rear cable have an exit at the top to reach a rim brake caliper?
Likes For zacster:
#3
Clark W. Griswold
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 14,619
Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Salsa Timberjack Ti, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Phil Wood Apple VeloXS Frame (w/DA 7400), R+M Supercharger2 Rohloff, Habanero Ti 26
Liked 4,552 Times
in
3,049 Posts
So is the frame designed for what I am assuming you mean as side pull rim brakes as well? If not you need to use disc brakes. There is really not a benefit to using side pull calipers for wider tires and generally most disc brake frames aren't set up to use rim brakes especially more modern stuff. You might want to figure out what you have and what it is compatible with and maybe show some pictures.
In terms of cabling you can run internal cables for rim brakes it has been done a bunch but probably won't work so well on a bike not designed for rim brakes but the whole rim brake thing won't likely work anyway. However if somehow it would all work you could run things externally with say a Problem Solvers mount.
In terms of cabling you can run internal cables for rim brakes it has been done a bunch but probably won't work so well on a bike not designed for rim brakes but the whole rim brake thing won't likely work anyway. However if somehow it would all work you could run things externally with say a Problem Solvers mount.
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 18,341
Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Stewart 650B ATB
Liked 4,188 Times
in
2,471 Posts
I'll second the use of external cabling! Assuming the frame accepts caliper brakes (of some form) and the caliper is designed to accept the end of the cable casing (most center pull calipers don't, as example) the caliper won't care what the cable does between the lever and the caliper. This is the first resort when the internal routing gets messed up and you have to keep going with two brakes (or shift cables for that mater). Simple zip ties can be used to secure the cable/casing to the frame if the frame isn't round enough, or a size available, to use a commercially made cable clip. If the frame tubing where the cable will be routed along is round and of the right diameter there have been bolt on casing stops made. These let you have an interrupted casing, a section of the inner cable can be exposed. They also work as an adapter when converting from cantis to linear pull brakes to allow clean cable casing routing and containment. Andy
__________________
AndrewRStewart
AndrewRStewart
Likes For Andrew R Stewart:
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 39,644
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Liked 3,480 Times
in
1,911 Posts
BITD internal brake cables on steel road frames wasn't exceptionally rare.
There were two types. The most common arrangement had a continuous tube brazed within and took the full cable threaded through. So essentially the same as external routing, but prettier.
Some, however, had fulcrums (stops) where the cable was threaded, so only the inner went through.
If the routing is in the right place, and assuming you can mount the brake, there's no reason to opt out of internal routing.
There were two types. The most common arrangement had a continuous tube brazed within and took the full cable threaded through. So essentially the same as external routing, but prettier.
Some, however, had fulcrums (stops) where the cable was threaded, so only the inner went through.
If the routing is in the right place, and assuming you can mount the brake, there's no reason to opt out of internal routing.
#8
Senior Member
The frame in the pic does have rim brake mounting holes, so it can take them. Hard to say from the pic whether there is an exit to the rear rim brake bridge. I doubt it.
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 39,644
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Liked 3,480 Times
in
1,911 Posts
Looking at the photo, you have no reasonable internal option. That is unless there's a pair of holes on the hidden side of the top tube.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
Likes For FBinNY:
#10
we be rollin'
Thread Starter
So for the front caliper, it would be no stops required but for the rear caliper I'd need two single cable stops on the top tube. Then the cable for the rear derailleur could go internal (would go with single chainring up front).
Anyway, can you tell from the pic if takes an internal or external headset? (It doesn't say, just an Aliexpress frame.)
Anyway, can you tell from the pic if takes an internal or external headset? (It doesn't say, just an Aliexpress frame.)
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 39,644
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Liked 3,480 Times
in
1,911 Posts
So for the front caliper, it would be no stops required but for the rear caliper I'd need two single cable stops on the top tube. Then the cable for the rear derailleur could go internal (would go with single chainring up front).
Anyway, can you tell from the pic if takes an internal or external headset? (It doesn't say, just an Aliexpress frame.)
Anyway, can you tell from the pic if takes an internal or external headset? (It doesn't say, just an Aliexpress frame.)
As for the headset, we'd have to be psychic to know for sure from that photo. However, the large diameter crown area on the fork, seems to be designed to mate with the head tube, which would make the most sense with a hidden headset fully nested within the head. Of course, the only way to know would be to look inside the head tube.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
Likes For FBinNY:
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 18,341
Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Stewart 650B ATB
Liked 4,188 Times
in
2,471 Posts
These have been around for a quite a few years. I've installed stops like these (IIRC the Back Stop brand) and serviced some bikes with them, usually used for the canti to linear pull conversions (although they make a great ft der casing stop too) and have had zero issues or concerns. Andy
__________________
AndrewRStewart
AndrewRStewart
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 39,644
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Liked 3,480 Times
in
1,911 Posts
These have been around for a quite a few years. I've installed stops like these (IIRC the Back Stop brand) and serviced some bikes with them, usually used for the canti to linear pull conversions (although they make a great ft der casing stop too) and have had zero issues or concerns. Andy
First of all, I suspect a pair of these weigh more than the 18" of housing they might save.
Plus, while these may be more reliable than the pressed clamps from BITD, I'm not willing to trust them not to slide in an emergency stop.
Ultimately, it's a personal decision, however the OP asked for opinions, and that's mine.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#14
1. You said you wanted tire clearance. Disc brakes are best for tire clearance.
2. There are long reach caliper brakes with tire clearance. But the mechanical leverage is worse because of the long arms.
3. The frame has holes where the brakes could go. But I assume these are not recessed holes. So you would have to convert the brakes to old fashion nutted style
4. There are no brake cable guides anywhere so you would end up with zip-ties all over
Seems like you are creating a lot of hassles for yourself by not using the right disk brake wheels. And you'll end up with a worse performing bike.
2. There are long reach caliper brakes with tire clearance. But the mechanical leverage is worse because of the long arms.
3. The frame has holes where the brakes could go. But I assume these are not recessed holes. So you would have to convert the brakes to old fashion nutted style
4. There are no brake cable guides anywhere so you would end up with zip-ties all over
Seems like you are creating a lot of hassles for yourself by not using the right disk brake wheels. And you'll end up with a worse performing bike.
#16
Senior Member
Why not just buy a frame made for the wheels you want to use? Or use the right wheels for this frame? Getting a frame with canti studs will give you more clearance than you’ll have with decent caliper brakes anyway.
Likes For bboy314:
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Boulder County, CO
Posts: 4,557
Bikes: '80 Masi Gran Criterium, '12 Trek Madone, early '60s Frejus track
Liked 509 Times
in
384 Posts
FYI, all brakes that aren't drum brakes or old Raleigh-style lever brakes are caliper brakes.
The tapered tubes say this is a hydroformed aluminum frame. The shift cables are internally routed through the down tube. Run the cables as designed for the frame. It will be easier than trying to grip tapered tubes with clamps. You should be able to detect cable stops at the top of the down tube and at the rear of the drive-side chain stay. You might need a plastic cable guide where the cables exit below the bottom bracket. The shift cables will run externally from the handlebar to the frame and the bottom bracket to the derailleurs. The front brake cable will be completely external. The rear brake cable will enter the front of the top tube and exit through the rear of the top tube. You will need housing where the rear brake and shift cables connect. Use a flashlight and an old spoke to help thread cables through the openings.
The tapered tubes say this is a hydroformed aluminum frame. The shift cables are internally routed through the down tube. Run the cables as designed for the frame. It will be easier than trying to grip tapered tubes with clamps. You should be able to detect cable stops at the top of the down tube and at the rear of the drive-side chain stay. You might need a plastic cable guide where the cables exit below the bottom bracket. The shift cables will run externally from the handlebar to the frame and the bottom bracket to the derailleurs. The front brake cable will be completely external. The rear brake cable will enter the front of the top tube and exit through the rear of the top tube. You will need housing where the rear brake and shift cables connect. Use a flashlight and an old spoke to help thread cables through the openings.
Last edited by oldbobcat; 05-15-24 at 08:50 AM.
#21
If you look carefully at the front brake mounting hole, you'll notice that it's not even parallel to the plane of the brakes. There is a taper in the tubing there and the hole is on a slant. So this would be a very unsteady mount for the brake caliper. It's not too clear how the rear brake mounting hole looks, but that one looks to be sheetmetal. So that would be a poor, flexible mounting point for the rear brake.
Just a bad idea overall to try to put caliper brakes on this frame which is completely not designed for them.
Just a bad idea overall to try to put caliper brakes on this frame which is completely not designed for them.
Likes For icemilkcoffee:
#23
Senior Member
FYI, all brakes that aren't drum brakes or old Raleigh-style lever brakes are caliper brakes.
The tapered tubes say this is a hydroformed aluminum frame. The shift cables are internally routed through the down tube. Run the cables as designed for the frame. It will be easier than trying to grip tapered tubes with clamps. You should be able to detect cable stops at the top of the down tube and at the rear of the drive-side chain stay. You might need a plastic cable guide where the cables exit below the bottom bracket. The shift cables will run externally from the handlebar to the frame and the bottom bracket to the derailleurs. The front brake cable will be completely external. The rear brake cable will enter the front of the top tube and exit through the rear of the top tube. You will need housing where the rear brake and shift cables connect. Use a flashlight and an old spoke to help thread cables through the openings.
The tapered tubes say this is a hydroformed aluminum frame. The shift cables are internally routed through the down tube. Run the cables as designed for the frame. It will be easier than trying to grip tapered tubes with clamps. You should be able to detect cable stops at the top of the down tube and at the rear of the drive-side chain stay. You might need a plastic cable guide where the cables exit below the bottom bracket. The shift cables will run externally from the handlebar to the frame and the bottom bracket to the derailleurs. The front brake cable will be completely external. The rear brake cable will enter the front of the top tube and exit through the rear of the top tube. You will need housing where the rear brake and shift cables connect. Use a flashlight and an old spoke to help thread cables through the openings.
#25
I wanted to buy a frame partly because of the tire clearance but it has internal cabling. It's made for disc brakes but I have a regular wheelset. So should I just buy Problem Solvers adapters to use external cabling?
I know how to measure caliper brake reach, just wanted to know what is workable.
I know how to measure caliper brake reach, just wanted to know what is workable.
the types of caliper brake are - side pull, centre pull, hydraulic rim, and hydraulic disc. I expect when you state "caliper" you mean a sidepull caliper rim brake (cantilever rim brakes are also centre pull or side pull).
And when you state "regular wheelset" you mean "rim braked wheelset", because discs are so common now on quality bikes that they're really the new "regular".