Ceramic Hub Bearings
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2024
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,198
Bikes: Columbine, Paramount Track Bike, Colnago Super, Santana Tandems (1995 & 2007), Gary Fisher Piranha, Trek Wahoo, Bianchi Track Bike, a couple of Honda mountain bikes
Liked 431 Times
in
265 Posts
Ceramic Hub Bearings
I always thought rolling resistance of bearings had mostly to do with the lubrication (heavy grease > lighter grease > oil). Obviously the bearings need to be of a minimum hardness, but can someone enlighten me as to why folks are using ceramic bearings?
__________________
Cheers, Mike
-Stupid hurts....ride safe
Cheers, Mike
-Stupid hurts....ride safe
#2
LR÷P=HR
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 2,297
Bikes: 1981 Holdsworth Special, 1993 C-dale MT3000 & 1996 F700CAD3, 2018 & 2019 Cervelo R3’s & 2022 R5, JustGo Runt, Ridley Oval, Kickr Bike 8-)
Liked 1,316 Times
in
755 Posts
The heart wants, what the heart wants !
It’s the result of successful marketing.
Barry
It’s the result of successful marketing.
Barry
Last edited by Barry2; 05-15-24 at 07:18 PM.
Likes For Barry2:
#3
Senior Member
Greater sphericity which leads to virtually trivial reductions in drag.
Likes For Koyote:
#4
Senior Member
Search says:
Ceramic bearing balls are often used in industrial applications that require high speeds, high loads, and high temperatures. They are also used in the aerospace industry, medical, and automotive industries.
None of those three conditions apply for bicycles, to put it mildly.
Ceramic bearing balls are often used in industrial applications that require high speeds, high loads, and high temperatures. They are also used in the aerospace industry, medical, and automotive industries.
None of those three conditions apply for bicycles, to put it mildly.
#5
I am potato.
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 3,339
Bikes: Only precision built, custom high performance elitist machines of the highest caliber. 🍆
Liked 1,871 Times
in
1,062 Posts
Because the next better thing exists, that's the thing that must be used.
__________________
I shouldn't have to "make myself more visible;" Drivers should just stop running people over.
Car dependency is a tax.
I shouldn't have to "make myself more visible;" Drivers should just stop running people over.
Car dependency is a tax.
Likes For base2:
#6
Junior Member
Ceramic bearings are a waste of money for hubs. They don't spin fast enough to even come close to performing what they are made to do. However, I have them in my surf fishing reels for casting well over 100 yards and they really do make a difference for that application. But I get it, the heart wants what the heart wants.
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: northern Deep South
Posts: 9,156
Bikes: Fuji Touring, Novara Randonee
Liked 2,158 Times
in
1,328 Posts
Slightly better deformation, so trivially lower drag.
Slightly lower weight. Some of the most expensive weight reduction available in the bicycle world.
I think I recall seeing a marketing pitch that ceramic bearings were so good they didn't really need lubrication. If I'm not imagining that, another insignificant drag reduction.
You'd think, for something so expensive and so well hidden, they'd come with large stickers to put on the bike frame: "I've got ceramic bearings in MY bike, nyah, nyah!"
Slightly lower weight. Some of the most expensive weight reduction available in the bicycle world.
I think I recall seeing a marketing pitch that ceramic bearings were so good they didn't really need lubrication. If I'm not imagining that, another insignificant drag reduction.
You'd think, for something so expensive and so well hidden, they'd come with large stickers to put on the bike frame: "I've got ceramic bearings in MY bike, nyah, nyah!"
Likes For pdlamb:
#8
Senior Member
I recently just purchased some carbon wheels with ceramic bearings. I can tell you they are smooth and the wheels roll forever if you spin them when the bike is up on the stand. I have 7 other wheelsets and they are probably a tie with my wheelsets that have Onyx hubs and roll much longer than the other wheelsets that don't have ceremic bearings.
My next move is ceramic bearing bottom brackets from BB Infinite.
My next move is ceramic bearing bottom brackets from BB Infinite.
#10
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2024
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,198
Bikes: Columbine, Paramount Track Bike, Colnago Super, Santana Tandems (1995 & 2007), Gary Fisher Piranha, Trek Wahoo, Bianchi Track Bike, a couple of Honda mountain bikes
Liked 431 Times
in
265 Posts
Back in the day, before a criterium race, we'd lube our hubs with oil and plug the drain hole. One could feel the difference when coasting, but it never made any difference as criteriums are much more about tactics and placement at the finish line sprint.
__________________
Cheers, Mike
-Stupid hurts....ride safe
Cheers, Mike
-Stupid hurts....ride safe
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 6,357
Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa
Liked 3,313 Times
in
1,992 Posts
Lighter weight and smoother. What's not to like?
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,829
Bikes: too many sparkly Italians, some sweet Americans and a couple interesting Japanese
Liked 676 Times
in
463 Posts
I come from engineering/maintenance in heavy industry and we only justified using them for corrosion/moisture resistance, and high temperature applications. None of which I have found impacts my bikes.
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Mich
Posts: 7,867
Bikes: RSO E-tire dropper fixie brifter
Liked 3,302 Times
in
2,096 Posts
unless you go all the way & have the bearing races also be fitted for the bearings, the benefit[s] are very minimal if any.
__________________
-YMMV
-YMMV
Likes For Troul:
#16
I just ordered ceramic bearings for my seatpost.
Catch me now, suckahs!
Catch me now, suckahs!
__________________
Hard at work in the Secret Underground Laboratory...
Hard at work in the Secret Underground Laboratory...
#17
I'll go with the trivial advantage. From what I've read the two least aerodynamic objects are the human body and the spoked wheel both available in. handy combination package on bicycles.
#18
Really Old Senior Member
IF one 'feels" they have better equipment, they'll probably up their performance slightly to "prove it".
#19
Junior Member
Slightly better deformation, so trivially lower drag.
Slightly lower weight. Some of the most expensive weight reduction available in the bicycle world.
I think I recall seeing a marketing pitch that ceramic bearings were so good they didn't really need lubrication. If I'm not imagining that, another insignificant drag reduction.
"
Slightly lower weight. Some of the most expensive weight reduction available in the bicycle world.
I think I recall seeing a marketing pitch that ceramic bearings were so good they didn't really need lubrication. If I'm not imagining that, another insignificant drag reduction.
"
At the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics, fifteen minutes before the 4000m Pursuit Bronze medal race, Leonard Nitz bike was brought to Campy Tech Support and needed the bottom bracket redone. Request was for no grease, loose ball with light oil only so it had to go together dry. Three of us, trading A#*%+^#s and elbows, swapped the BB and handed the bike back in ten minutes. It was run down to the start line and Nitz won the bronze. Did it make a difference? Ask Harv.
#20
Senior Member
That may have nothing to do with the bearing material...And at any rate is virtually irrelevant with regard to speed.
Likes For Koyote:
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 39,639
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Liked 3,480 Times
in
1,911 Posts
IMO, other than the desire to have "the best" one needs to maintain some perspective.
There's no denying that bearing friction varies with both material and quality. But the total amount of bearing drag of even the worst is trivial compared to total drag on a bike, which comes from wind, tires, and bearings, in order of importance.
Also, among good quality bearings, under bike conditions, the viscous drag of the lubricant is much greater than any difference in the bearings themselves. Also don't forget about the friction of the lip seals on typical bearings.
IMO, if you want the absolutely lowest drag, pry off the seals, and replace the grease with oil. Of course this might cost you some wear, and really won't make a material difference, but the psychological boost from thinking it would might matter.
There's no denying that bearing friction varies with both material and quality. But the total amount of bearing drag of even the worst is trivial compared to total drag on a bike, which comes from wind, tires, and bearings, in order of importance.
Also, among good quality bearings, under bike conditions, the viscous drag of the lubricant is much greater than any difference in the bearings themselves. Also don't forget about the friction of the lip seals on typical bearings.
IMO, if you want the absolutely lowest drag, pry off the seals, and replace the grease with oil. Of course this might cost you some wear, and really won't make a material difference, but the psychological boost from thinking it would might matter.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 6,357
Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa
Liked 3,313 Times
in
1,992 Posts
Taking together all the incremental benefits of the small weight and friction savings of our upgrades by definition should result in some cremental gains.
#23
Senior Member
All feeding the micro watt power differential, super weight weenie, “my bike always stays clean” mantra disciples.
Have you tried using your brakes?
Some track riders used oil just to hear the loose balls click as they would roll over, especially as they were just warming up. Sort of saying “my bike is faster than yours” because of no clingy grease. It may have had a slight advantage in pursuit events. Maybe just a psychological edge for some.
At the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics, fifteen minutes before the 4000m Pursuit Bronze medal race, Leonard Nitz bike was brought to Campy Tech Support and needed the bottom bracket redone. Request was for no grease, loose ball with light oil only so it had to go together dry. Three of us, trading A#*%+^#s and elbows, swapped the BB and handed the bike back in ten minutes. It was run down to the start line and Nitz won the bronze. Did it make a difference? Ask Harv.
Have you tried using your brakes?
Some track riders used oil just to hear the loose balls click as they would roll over, especially as they were just warming up. Sort of saying “my bike is faster than yours” because of no clingy grease. It may have had a slight advantage in pursuit events. Maybe just a psychological edge for some.
At the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics, fifteen minutes before the 4000m Pursuit Bronze medal race, Leonard Nitz bike was brought to Campy Tech Support and needed the bottom bracket redone. Request was for no grease, loose ball with light oil only so it had to go together dry. Three of us, trading A#*%+^#s and elbows, swapped the BB and handed the bike back in ten minutes. It was run down to the start line and Nitz won the bronze. Did it make a difference? Ask Harv.