jefnvk

Just curious, has anyone done anything like this? Ever since I've have the bike, I've had a bit of a chainskating issue. Experimenting with different chains, I've minimized it, but two of the gears on the cassette are worn. As it is a Helicomatic, I can't just replace the cassette with a new one, and don't really want to play the game of ordering old ones off eBay hoping to get a better one.

The easy way out would be to just buy a new 700c wheelset that takes a thread-on freewheel and be done with it. That may well be the way I go, but as I have been pondering a new road bike anyhow, I'm curious if I am buying new wheels, if upgrading the drivetrain to something modern on this frame would be possible. It fits me well, I love the color/styling, it is in fairly good shape.

I measured dropouts last night. They measure 125mm, which I presume is supposed to be 126mm spacing. I have no issue cold setting the frame according to the process on Sheldon Brown's site to 130mm if I can't jsut wedge the back wheel in.

Specific concerns I have:
1) Was the BB on Peugeots ISO at this point?
2) What modifications, if any, are required to make the Sachs Huret dropout hanger work with a modern Shimano?
3) If the BB is not standard, is there a way to simply use the current square taper crank with a modern front derailleur, to give these brifter things a shot? Also, would a vintage crank work with a 9 or 10 spd chain?

Yes, I know if I toss $400 in a basic groupset and wheels on a vintage Peugeot, it still is only worth $200, but I'm not touching a modern road bike for that cost (past BD, which is a possibility), and the prospect of a restomod has appealed to me. I like the bike, I want it in usable shape.

Falcon3

Good luck! Peugeot used a lot of different measurements during this time. It's likely British BB but could also be Swiss. Headset might be 22.2 or 22.0. Even if the bottom bracket is British, I t may not be tapped deep enough for a new bottom bracket, ( as is the strange case of my 1986 PH11). Best advice, start tearing it down and see what you've got! It will certainly teach you a lot, and educate you in the French philosophy of existentialism, where life is all about placing meaning on the struggle.

bmthom.gis

I think you'll be ok. I have a 1986 Peug I fully modernized. Pull the cranks out and measure the pitch of the bb threading. Vintage crank should work fine assuming the BCD is the same. Might look into like a DA 7402 crankset. Those take 5 bolt 130 BCD rings, which are plentiful and still being made.
Mine converted fine using an external bb/crankset. I had to get a rear der claw, so I don't have any idea about your hanger. I say take yours off and try threading a modern one on just to see.

ratfink76

@jefnvk - Be great to see pics of your bike - just curious...

I did one as well. Before and after pic below. The research on mine leads me to think mine is a 1980. Other research I have read says that from 1980 on Peugeot was using more common threading in areas on their bikes. Mine has standard threading on the RD hanger and in the BB. The headset was the French version - but even though the stem, fork and inside diameter on the bearing cups are French - in fact the frame itself is the same so in my case I had a carbon 1" threadless fork I was wanting to try out... so I removed all the Peugeot stuff and saved it for another time and bought a 1' threadless headset and stem. Everything else was very straight forward for the upgrade!

EDIT: wanted to mention that while this has not suddenly become the fave bike in my stable - I have really enjoyed riding it!!

bmthom.gis

Damn that looks awesome!

jetboy 

I know 7402 cranks work with 9 and 10 speed brifters as I have that on two of my bikes. I suspect your set would work as well if the gap between rings is not too far.

SkyDog75

Oh yeah. It's definitely doable.

1) By 1985, it's probably ISO. Hopefully it's not from Peugeot's short-lived adoption of Swiss bottom brackets, which are even more scarce than French.

2) I would suspect that Peugeot would be using modern standard (Campagnolo-style) derailleur hangers by 1985, regardless of the dropout maker. Huret did make their own non-compatible hanger style years ago, though. Got a picture of the derailleur hanger to be absolutely certain?

3) Shouldn't be a problem. You could even upgrade the chainrings to modern ones with ramps and pins for crisper shifting, which should be pretty easy to do if your crankset has a common BCD.

Who cares if the bike's resale value won't match what you spend? You're not upgrading it to flip it; you're upgrading it to ride it yourself. Will you get a bike you like more for less? It doesn't sound like it. So upgrade 'til your heart's content.

If you decide to go this route, Velomine is a good source for wheels. Here's a 700c freewheel wheelset built from Sun M13-II rims:
Sun M13 Silver 36h 126mm fits 5 6 7 speed Vintage Road Bikes [072774731008] - $119.00 Velomine.com : Worldwide Bicycle Shop, fixed gear track bike wheelsets campagnolo super record vintage bike

You could also pick up a set of wheels built around a modern freehub since you're not averse to cold setting the frame. If you get a Shimano-compatible 8/9/10 speed hub, you should be able to friction shift an 8 speed cassette. Or you can use a 7-speed cassette with a 4 mm spacer behind it.

jefnvk

Thanks all! @ratfink76- beautiful bike, that is exactly why I want to keep what I have instead of buying new!

I'll grab some pics of the derailleur hanger tonite. I don't have anything modern (at least for a road bike) to try out, otherwise I'd have just gone that route. I do have a Shimano Light Action lying around somewhere I could try, if that would be comparable to a modern Shimano mounting.

Wasn't thinking anything too extreme on the drive, probably just one of those $200ish Sora 9-spd groupsets Ribble is selling.

Headset isn't much of a concern, it is in serviceable shape, if I can't replace it I'm not worried. Quill fits me fine, only change up there would maybe be a set of randonneur bars instead of the less than appealing to me drops it has.

I agree. Modern road bike frames don't appeal to me at all, even if I were to just buy something new, it'd just be one of the vintage-styled, straight top tube tubed Motobecanes on BD. Not to mention, it isn't exactly hard to stash the old parts and take the new ones off if I ever sold.

I'll check out Velomine. Like I said, it needs new wheels (or at least rear hub) regardless of what else it gets. Now that you mention friction shifting 8, I could also deal with bar ends, which I've got on my touring bike and love. Might actually be the better way to go than full modern, now that I think of it.

Lascauxcaveman 

I converted my PH10LE to a triple, but I don't remember whether or not I changed the BB.

I've got a couple of of fairly fresh Helicomatic clusters in my parts bin (5 and 6 speed) if you decide to bunch the project and keep it original. PM me.

exmechanic89

Lolz.

m_yates

If you are using a square taper bottom bracket, you can install a new threadless bottom bracket on a frame with any type of threading, or no threading at all. A wide variety of bottom bracket sizes are available. Sunlite makes some inexpensive ones, for example:

Sunlite Bottom Bracket Set 68 x 116 Sqar Thrdls F/Repair

Velo Orange sells some expensive ones:

Grand Cru Threadless Bottom Bracket - Bottom Brackets - Components

If you cold set the frame, you should align the dropouts. I don't think Sheldon Brown's instructions mention that part. There are some Youtube videos that show how to use proper tools to check frame alignment and dropout alignment, or make your own tools for cheap.

gearheadgeek

oddjob2

I don't believe you will have any problems. I think Chombi or Chas has said by 1985 most of the "Frenchness" had been shifted to conventional standards.

Just get your hands on a set of standard 1.37 x 24tpi cups, load them with grease and try threading them in by hand.

jefnvk

Good call. Next time I'm at the vintagey bike shop, I'll see what they've got lying around.

Although, the more I think about it, I really like the idea of an 8/9spd with bar end shifters over a straight up modern brifter full groupset swapout.

Good call. I've been looking for a reason to buy a derailleur dropout adjuster anyhow.

oddjob2

If you're over on the east side (GP), I can help you out as I have a tin full of bb cups, and one or more of everthing else.

billytwosheds 

I identify with this statement. Good stuff.

noglider 

You can do this incrementally if you start at the rear wheel. Use a cassette hub.

jefnvk

Thanks @oddjob2, but it just clicked in my mind that I still haven't done a spring lube on most of the bikes I work on, I can borrow the cups out of the fiancee's late-80s Marushi.

@noglider - Its currently got 27" tires, while I'm sure I could probably start with only the rear, I think it's probably prudent to do both at the same time. Wouldn't mind moving the front wheel and the rear rim to my Schwinn anyhow, getting rid of the steelies and learning how to build a wheel at the same time.

ratfink76

Just a thought, you mentioned you already have this bar ends on another bike you have, so might be educational and fun to go with brifters...?

And don't forget we want to see a pic of the intended victim! Er, I mean bike... yeah...

jefnvk

Yeah, my fault for not having them when I posted the thread!

As she sits.


The hanger.


And the last longer ride we went on


Ignore the tape, it was my first tape job two years back

SkyDog75

Even though that's a Simplex dropout, it has a Campagnolo-style hanger, which became the widely-adapted standard. Any Campy, Shimano, or SunTour derailleur (among others) made in the past 40+ years will fit it.

peugeot mongrel

Here is the same bike with mostly 5600 105. It rides great.

Spread the rear just be careful. It's easy.
Any Shimano 9 or 10 speed chainrings will work on any Shimano older crank. The narrow spacing for 9-10 speed front is in the rings not the spider. The inner ring on 9-10 sp is offset to make the spacing closer. Just use a chain that matches your cassette. 11 speed stuff may not work as well.

The Peugeot has a 600 Arabesque crank and newer 9-10 sp rings. It has a 600 tricolor rear & front derailleur. Works fine. The others are a mix of newer parts.

All my bikes are old frames & modern wheels & drive. After you get to the point that you are building bikes I figure each bike is broken down to 3 basic sets of parts. Frame, wheelset and drive train. Each one is separate and retains it's own value. So you find if you gather the parts and build this one and later you get the itch to change you will apply this groupset to another frame.

I have 5 old steel frames with modern wheels & groupsets.

They are all bad ass and If I had the motor they would keep up with anyone's carbon. You are on the right track.




86 Peugeot after paint

gaucho777 

Threading on an English/ISO hub will match an English/ISO BB. Ditto with a French hub and BB. Thus, if the BB cups aren't marked (1.370 x 24 tpi for English), you can test fit a known ISO hub into the non-drive side BB (right-threaded) if you don't have extra BB cups on hand. Of course, a French BB will be right-threaded on both sides. A Swiss BB will match the French threading (35mmx1mm, 24.5 tpi) but will be left-threaded on the drive-side as is the case with conventional ISO BBs.

+1 that Peugeot had mostly switched to ISO by '85, so my guess is that yours will be ISO, but not 100% certain.

peugeot mongrel

You never know for sure without checking but it is an age range it is probably not a french BB

jefnvk

Thanks! Already looking for a wheelset and RD, decision between bar ends and brifters can wait a month or two, until at least my cheap touring build is done!

Sexy, all of them