Headtube Lug Crack
#1
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Headtube Lug Crack
I found these small vertical cracks in the lug of the headtube. I don't know enough about bikes/frames to know if this is a major issue or not. It doesn't appear that they extend up above into the top of the lug. (What looks like dirt along the top ridge of the lug there is a network of paint cracking that doesn't appear to be an extension of the cracks that run vertically up the serial number)
I can't even quite tell if the vertical cracks are limited to the paint, or if they actually extend into the structure of the lug. Just looking for some opinions, I know it's very hard to give any definitive answers based on two pictures. (1987 Panasonic DX1000 is the bike in question)
Thanks
#2
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It would appear that the junction of the lug and top tube rigth above the serial number was not brazed, paint is partially hiding this. The fact that the crack goes right through the serial number stamping "1" makes one think that this was a stress riser, and a thinning of the material right near the end of the non-existant braze. I'm wondering, however, how structural this is. It's odd since Panasonic was considered a fairly high quality frame shop, if indeed it were built there.
Removal of paint in the area is the only way to see if indeed it is cracked.
Removal of paint in the area is the only way to see if indeed it is cracked.
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It would appear that the junction of the lug and top tube rigth above the serial number was not brazed, paint is partially hiding this. The fact that the crack goes right through the serial number stamping "1" makes one think that this was a stress riser, and a thinning of the material right near the end of the non-existant braze. I'm wondering, however, how structural this is. It's odd since Panasonic was considered a fairly high quality frame shop, if indeed it were built there.
Removal of paint in the area is the only way to see if indeed it is cracked.
Removal of paint in the area is the only way to see if indeed it is cracked.
#4
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That's a good observation, I see what you mean now. Paint removal would definitely give a better answer, and it would be in a small enough area that I could clean it up nicely so it doesn't look too shabby. I wonder if it was just not completely brazen? You often see gaps around lugs where the area was just partially filled if I recall correctly.
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Before ruining the paint, I'd pop out the headset cup and look at the inside of the head tube to see if the crack extends into the tube or is just in the lug.
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I've had it out recently and can confirm that the tube looks good inside. Nothing but light surface rust and a small mark from the stem expander wedge at some point, no cracks or anything inside.
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Hmm, stem expander wedge would mark the inside of the fork steerer, not the headtube. Unless the expander wedge was really horked down and dented the steerer so much that it rubs on the inside of the headtube...
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That's my mistake, not thinking of the anatomy of the bike properly. I'm thinking of the steerer that comes off of the fork, not the headtube itself. I'd probably have to take the fork out then to get a look at the headtube, since that steerer is it's own tube that rests right inside the headtube?
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That's my mistake, not thinking of the anatomy of the bike properly. I'm thinking of the steerer that comes off of the fork, not the headtube itself. I'd probably have to take the fork out then to get a look at the headtube, since that steerer is it's own tube that rests right inside the headtube?
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From here a thousand miles away, it looks more like a paint crack and not anything structural. Until the crack seems to expand I would just ignore it and think about it as a paint blemish. JMHO, Smiles, MH
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That's my mistake, not thinking of the anatomy of the bike properly. I'm thinking of the steerer that comes off of the fork, not the headtube itself. I'd probably have to take the fork out then to get a look at the headtube, since that steerer is it's own tube that rests right inside the headtube?
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I would be tempted to remove the headset and face the headtube, the appearance suggests that the lower headtube is not fully in contact with the headset cup.
the overall appearance suggests crack check dye time to me.
and chemical paint removal, wire brush can smudge things a bit.
the overall appearance suggests crack check dye time to me.
and chemical paint removal, wire brush can smudge things a bit.
#14
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Tap it and listen Brazed will have one sound, two unbrazed items will sound differently - tinny, damped, two tones.
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As long as the head tube isn't cracked, I'd let it be.
@repechage has good eyes. I looked again and it does appear that the bottom headset cup isn't pressed all the way in.
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The question is what do you do about it if it isn't brazed on? It appears that it's just the front edge of the bottom lug. The critical part of the braze is at the junction of the head and down tube. As a mental experiment, what would happen if that little lip part of the lug wasn't there?
As long as the head tube isn't cracked, I'd let it be.
@repechage has good eyes. I looked again and it does appear that the bottom headset cup isn't pressed all the way in.
As long as the head tube isn't cracked, I'd let it be.
@repechage has good eyes. I looked again and it does appear that the bottom headset cup isn't pressed all the way in.
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Using a proper headset press, I can't imagine it going in that far crooked.
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#21
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Plenty of them can ruin the workpiece and the tool regardless of how foolproof they may be.
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If it is in crooked, I can see that being easily accomplished with a piece of wood and a hammer by said hamfisted butcher...
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Some days I wish I would've gotten a project bike to build up on my own. Then if something is wrong, I know I put it there and how it got there in the first place. The only thing I've done on this bike is change the seat, tires, and install a Cateye Velo.
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are you talking about The Bike Butcher of Portland?
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Not him, he's the fixer of such things.
I'm talking about all the hacks I have followed, working on cars, bikes and mc's for over 50 years of wrenching.
Bikes since 12 yo, riding and drag racing mc's for 40+, cars professionally for 35+ and more.
I'm talking about all the hacks I have followed, working on cars, bikes and mc's for over 50 years of wrenching.
Bikes since 12 yo, riding and drag racing mc's for 40+, cars professionally for 35+ and more.