Duragrouch

Interesting. Just checked my cheap factory wheels, they're not mirrored. I could see the outer cross of the lacing perhaps counteracting that, but still. Learn something new every day. I'd read up on wheelbuilding, but I'll just forget most of it before using. But if I ever build a set of wheels, I'll read up first. Except this would be null, as I'd like to go straight-pull spokes and hubs, only due to ease of replacing rear drive-side spokes on a trip, no need to pull cassette, nor discs on disc side. Don't see 32 or 36 hole hubs, but I see 28 hole, that's enough for 20" rims.

FBinNY 

FWIW, I noted it a distinction, not implying any material difference.

Experienced builders usually have opinion about pulling spokes being elbow out or on. Whatever they believe, it applies to both flanges, so they mirror accordingly.

Production builders using lacing machines are more focused on speed, wanting to lace 30+ wheels per hour. Not mirroring makes the handwork the same on both flanges, allowing them to lace on autopilot, bottom flange first, then top.

So, free of judgement, mirrored vs. non-mirrored can distinguish hand vs. machine built wheels.

grumpus

I do that while I'm truing, but I also put the wheel on a carpeted floor and press hard with hands on opposite sides, turn maybe 45 degrees and repeat until I've gone around a couple of times, then flip it over and do the other side - repeat until there are no pings or creaks. I'm quite heavy, I can see that standing on it might work better for a lighter person.

Duragrouch

I take it you mean laying the wheel flat (axle on floor) and pressing on spokes (lateral to the wheel) or pressing on the rim laterally?

grumpus

Pressing down on the rim around 10 to 2.

FBinNY 

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

2 spokes breaking over a year apart is not enough to make any inferences.

Ron Damon

Duragrouch

I assume with knees holding the opposite side of rim down. Sounds like a good technique.

Duragrouch

Interesting. I had not noticed before, the hub drive-side flange is larger diameter than the non-drive-side. If anything, I would have thought the other way around, to make spokes on both sides more even in length. But maybe yours has to do with the dish and lateral pull angle of spokes on each side. I'll have to think about that.

Ron Damon

Well, the non drive side is more dished. To make the dishing less severe on that side, a longer path is provided by a smaller hub flange.

FBinNY 

Yes and (practically) no.

While a larger flange combined with reduced crosses increases the bracing angle, the reality is that the reduced crosses matter more.

With more crosses, as your's seems to have, spokes end close to the axis regardless of flange size. Combined with the very slight difference in diameter, the net effect will be near zero.

By example, on a 3x28h build flange size makes no difference at all vis a vis spoke length or bracing angle.

grumpus

No knees involved, except for kneeling on the floor - the rim touches the floor at 12 o'clock, the hub holds the rim up at an angle, and you press down at 10 and 2 o'clock (or WNW and ENE if you prefer).

mpetry912 

take a pair of pliers and bend the spokes at about 1" up from the nipple to normalize the angle at which the spoke enters the nipple.

so it goes "straight in" won't hurt a thing.

the other thing you can do is re-lace that wheel with 2 cross to give a reduced that angle of departure.

/markp

mrrabbit 

The press down method on the sides of the rim is NOT stress relieving...

...and one of the worst things you can do to a wheel. A wheel's strength is linear - not lateral.

You are literally threatening to taco the wheel if you do that.

Shocked how we still have people who do this despite decades of warnings NOT to do this.

=8-(

Dan Burkhart 

I would agree that this really does nothing to stress relieve. All it really does is reduce the tension to allow any spoke windup to unwind.

Duragrouch

I... don't think that puts much strain on the spokes at all (and you do need strain for stress relieving). It may try to stretch the spokes at 10 and 2 a bit with respect to the spokes at 12, but it's fighting the local lateral stiffness of the rim, and perhaps may cause yielding on the rim before the spokes, something you don't want. As always, "I could be wrong".

Duragrouch

I had to think about that... yes, same lateral distance with shorter spokes increases the bracing angle. That may explain a wheel shown on another thread with radial spoking on the drive side, and crossed spoking opposite; I know modern hubs with large cylindrical midsection makes this possible, but didn't see the logic of doing it that way. Your explanation may be the key.

grumpus

It actually loosens spokes, so spoke wind-up is released and you don't get those clicks and pings when you first ride your new wheels. You mentioned a stress relieving technique using feet, so I related this method which could use feet, not as a recommendation for stress relieving. I once over-tensioned a wheel and turned it into a Pringle by doing this, but it straightened right out when I pushed it the other way, and worked fine once I'd reduced tension a bit.

FBinNY 

There are countless variations on how to stress relieve/settle/unwind a nearly finished wheel.

They all share a common process, namely overload some spokes, while relaxing others. Whatever gets the job done is fine

FWIW I prefer to sit, brace the wheel against one knee an pull at 3 and 9, working my around the wheel. I gauge how hard to pull by watching and listening. I don't claim this is any better, except that it doesn't call for getting up.

LeeG

How much do you weigh? I’d be inclined to look for a rim with angled holes and more spokes.

Duragrouch

Ah OK. Long ago I recall that on newly trued wheels, but less as I became aware of spoke windup and would reverse the nipples near the end to unwind. In recent years, I don't recall much of either, and thinking now, that is probably due to my riding exclusively 20" wheels with constant gauge short spokes, which are more torsionally stiff than on my previous 700c bikes.

grumpus

Could probably just file this rim a little to ovalise each hole in the right direction. I've wondered about DIY rim dimpling, but never got around to trying it.