michaelamherst

I am looking at upgrading my bike. I currently have a (2013) Genesis Croix de Fer. I like it, but it's pretty heavy. I have rheumatoid arthritis and cycling is really good for my joints. I used to ride the Genesis everywhere and did a couple of long rides on it, then I had a flare up and left it for a bit. I'm pleased to say that the lockdown (coupled with my new medication) means I've been back on the bike and loving it. So I think I'd like to treat myself to an upgrade AND I get both lower back pain on a really long ride and neck/shoulder pain on even medium length rides. I don't think the Genesis fits me right. It's 52, when my inseam and height says I should have 53. My family all have short arms so I fear that the frame is ever so slightly small but the reach too long. I use it for cycling round the city as well as some longer rides but have also started chasing more speed on it. I'd like to replace it with something racier, that I can cycle in and out of town on but also use for the occasional, really long trips. I want to go steel as I feel it would be more forgiving given my condition and I love the look of some of these vintage frames. So, my shortlist so far are: a Condor Classico, Cinelli Supercorsa, Bianchi L'Eroica and Bottecchia Leggendaria. Cyclist magazine seemed to rate the Condor higher than the Bianchi for climbing, but the Bianchi did sound more charismatic and I love the styling of it. The Bottecchia is more new to me and I've not been able to find any reviews as to how it rides, compared with the others, but steel-vintage seem to do a really good component spec on them. But then there's the Cinelli. I don't know but I keep coming back to it. I have a soft spot for Italian design anyway and there's something both about the Cinelli brand and the Supercorsa frame. But I just don't know. Any advice much appreciated!

Also, a couple of questions I fear may be sacrilegious - can I get any of these to take mud guards? I really would want to be riding it a lot and we get so much rain in the UK. The Cinelli in particular looks like it has very little/no extra clearance. I thought a superlight rack for an occasional pannier too.

iab

All the bikes you mention are not inexpensive. Before purchasing, I would recommend going to your LBS and get a proper bike fitting. Don't spend a lot of money and get a bike you won't ride because it is sized wrong.

As for which, doesn't really matter, they are all fine bikes that can bring great satisfaction. Get what floats your boat. Any thought of one climbs better or is faster is utter nonsense.

michaelamherst

Thank you - that's really helpful. Any benefit to the expensive fitting service some shops offer? Or is there little more to it than measurements and how you sit on a bike? Also, would the Supercorsa be ineligible for L'Eroica?

kermie

In your situation, I would get the best fitting you can. There are minor things that are looked at that will get you the best fit. Comfort is high for you (As with all of us) so get the best you can. As for the bike, as stated, all fairly expensive options, so pick the bike in the best condition and the one that calls out to you to ride. I really enjoy my 2014 Fuji aluminum bike, but my 1993 Specialized Allez Pro is the one that gets me really into a long ride. Have fun with the search.

Dfrost 

If mudguards and a light rack would be useful (they are to many of us here in C&V land) you might want to look at more sports touring, randoneur, or audax type bikes. UK brands such as Mercian, Jack Taylor and others might fill those needs wonderfully and you’ll end up with a bike that you will actually use and enjoy more. The models you listed are unlikely to accommodate those extras. Mercian are still very much in business and offer very reasonable custom/bespoke frames.

https://www.merciancycles.co.uk

A​​​s iab says, don’t believe what you see about this or that bike being faster or a notably better climbing bike. Bike magazine reviews claiming such are talking about tiny slivers of difference that those of us that aren’t so finely tuned would be unlikely to notice. It’s all about the engine (you!)

After getting the fit right, the bike that makes you want to ride it, whether it’s due to name, equipment, color (definitely!), is the one(s) to own! And then you’ll be asking about the ”best saddle”.

iab

I think trust is more important than cost when getting a fitting. Go in, talk to a person. Let them know the type of riding. If they steer you towards some tri or time-trial bike, run like hell. If they suggest something less aggressive, stick around. I did my "fitting" by trial and error over a few years. But with cheap bikes and cheap components. Your choices in the OP are ones where you want to get it right the first time. Spending $100-$200 before spending a couple thousand is smart.

Super corsa would be eligible for Eroica, they would prefer friction shifters, toe clips and non-aero brakes. That said, I'm sure if you skirt the rules no one will get bent out of shape.

Dfrost 

And if L’Eroica is potentially in your future, as well as anything else not paved or simply not smooth, look for additional tire clearance. The newer, more supple tires of 32+mm width are really a joy to use.

michaelamherst

Thank you all so much for your help. (I did reply before but it seems to have gone AWOL).



I've had a look at the Mercians and they're lovely bikes. I really like the randonneur/audax types and had considered them. I'm intrigued as to the different use cases for addax vs. the bikes I've selected. I'd erred more towards these as, while I'd like to do longer rides and very occasionally take a day pack, say, I think I'm far more likely to use the bike for exercise, using Strava on certain distances (Although I don't think I'll ever be a Strava nut!). I will also use it to get around town. I could use a backpack for that, but a small pannier would be preferable for comfort, especially in summer - I'd only ever be taking a couple of small books and maybe my (v small, light) laptop. While I'd also like to take the bike on holidays, again I'd imagine I'd be using it for day rides, rather than to carry things for touring. That being said, I guess there is a small chance I might want to carry something heavier for longer on a holiday. I figured that for all that a racer, with some potential for a rack to rarely carry, might be preferable to a tourer that would be heavier and slower but I wouldn't use for the extra storage as much. But maybe I'm getting their uses or abilities wrong?



What 32mm would you recommend - and is this something I'd be limited on with my selection, or could they all benefit?

Thanks all again so much for your advice.

michaelamherst

Answering that question myself, I understand the Supercorsa has maximum clearance of 25mm, but the Bianchi should be able to take more? How uncomfortable would I find the Cinelli on a long ride as a result?

Dfrost 

You are the perfect candidate for multiple bikes! Of course, that describes all of us on this forum.

It seems like you have divided the bikes out there into just two types - racers and tourers. There’s lots in between. Here’s my favorite: a 1987 Marinoni Sports Tourer that is lively, yet extremely versatile. I also have a 650B wheel and brake setup that makes it even more so, and allows fenders over the 38mm tires. Marinoni is an Italian who makes bikes outside Montreal. Probably not too many of those in the UK, but those I mentioned earlier would be similarly versatile.



For the sort of loads you’d carry, also consider bikes that are designed for a front load, often found in randonneur frames. A rando bag in front with a low trail fork is ideal for that application. Add a low rider rack for front panniers and you have a very capable touring bike without the the need for stout tubes that make a bike feel less lively.

As to preferred 32 mm tires, there’s lots of love around here for Rene Herse (previously known as Compass) tires. Light weight with supple sidewalls, pricey, but a delightful ride. I get over 6,000 miles out of each of mine - 3500 on the front, then I move it to the rear for another 3000 or more. I’ve had good luck with respect to flats with them, and hope I didn’t just jinx that luck!. Soma and Challenge make similar light, supple tires that are less expensive, but typically with less lifetime.

https://www.renehersecycles.com/prod...ts/tires/700c/

michaelamherst

Thanks so much for that! I have Avery good friend with a front rack on her bike. I had looked at the Cinelli Gazetta della Strada but reckon there might be better bikes out there for the money, including the Mercian. Your Marinoni looks a really beauty! I guess I now need to decide whether to replace my Genesis Croix de Fer with a lighter, nimbler tourer or keep it for the lifting. My confusion grows, as does my desire for more bikes!

Dfrost 

When the quarantine restrictions lift sufficiently, you would do well to test ride a number of bikes, with rides long enough to get a feel for handling differences, as well as the all-important fit variations mentioned in your first post. On that subject, there are many ways to tweak bike fit, assuming that the frame is in-range. Of note, a bigger frame makes it easier to raise the handlebars, but often also has a longer top tube. Both can be addressed by changes in the stem height and reach, as well as the reach of drop bars. While not as classically pretty, a sloping top tube also helps with handlebar height.

Have you tried any of the online bike fit calculators to get some initial dimensions? They don’t replace a good fitting service, but will give you some ideas what could work.

Like @iab, I’ve come to my comfortable fit (and adjust as needed over the years and physical changes) that works with my weird proportions over many years of trail and error, so haven’t used either the calculations or an individual. My wife however, also avid rider, was suffering from issues and used a bike fitter who is also a licensed physical therapist. He improved things greatly for her, including the selection of a new bike (her previous 18-year old custom had suffered a structural issue, and arthritis pushed her towards hydraulic disc braking) five years ago. One thing we insisted on was that he NOT cut down the steerer tube for her new threadless fork. That proved advantageous recently when she realized she was ready for higher handlebars due to age and a recent shoulder replacement, which was easily accommodated by switching a few spacers. Here it is as originally assembled before the recent spacer moves. Note the advantage of the sloping TT on another very versatile and fun-to-ride bike.

microcord

Your inseam and height do not say this. Some online calculator says that you should. The calculator was created with the best of intentions but makes a variety of assumptions. (Probably among them is the assumption that you don't have rheumatoid arthritis.)

If you suspect that the frame is ever so slightly small, then raise the saddle (and perhaps the stem) ever so slightly. If the reach is too long, then get a shorter stem. Now try again. Fiddle around with moving your saddle forewards and backwards. Go for rides of whatever you consider medium length equipped with allen keys so that you can tweak as you go.

If you go for a bike fitting, then you'll sit on a stationery bike and will be asked to ride at your preferred cadence, or a "natural" cadence, or some such. If you're a (re-) beginner -- and I infer that you are from the fact that the lockdown is an issue -- then you won't know. The whole experience will feel so unlike riding an actual bike on roads (uphill, downhill, on the level) that the more you attempt to introspect the less you'll know. "Would you prefer the handlebar to be positioned like this, or like that?" Well, if it's 3 cm too close or two far, you'll know; but if 1 cm, then all you're likely to be able to say is "Um, I dunno."

There are other factors, too. The cranks may be uncomfortably long, the handlebar may be too wide, the drops may be too deep, etc

Now see Peter White's sensible advice on fitting.

If you get your current bike set up just right for you, you can still buy a replacement, but you'll know what to ask for rather than depending on guesswork (or on sizing charts designed for people other than yourself) and perhaps making an expensive mistake.

Dfrost 

^^^^^ Absolutely superb advice in that post! ^^^^^

michaelamherst

This is really helpful, thank you, and that Peter White post excellent too. I'm already sorting a new stem for my Genesis to see how that works but will now try the exercise re. the handlebars without the hands as it's entirely possible I'm actually too far forward and am tiring out my arms. Really helpful - thank you!

michaelamherst

To move onto the more everyday and less fun, what do you use to secure these beautiful bikes when out and about? I had the handlebars stolen off my Genesis in dentral London years ago, so now have a stem lock on that. How would you secure a quill stem? It made me much more conscious of making my bike 'hard' to get. That being said, years ago I had a gold standard hiplock but god it was heavy. Now I have a heavy duty D-lock with thickish cable for the front but worry something more desirable than my Genesis might require more.

microcord

Have a cheap-looking bike for leaving around in central London. Avoid brand names popularly associated with high prices. Make your bike look very distinctive, so thieves would know that they'd stand out.

easyupbug 

I deal with osteoarthritis and thankfully not rheumatoid arthritis which I know can be much worse. The help offered above is good especially if at all possible a fitter who you believe best understands your limitations and concerns, worth a lot of conversation if you have multiple possible fitters. On weight, while never being a weight weenie and now 70 have found that my +20# bikes are not getting time, not sure it has anything to do with the arthritis, climbing, keeping up with groups, etc., might just enjoy the ride more.