Lugged frame limits..
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Lugged frame limits..
I've been kicking the idea of building a lugged frame bike for myself. Been reading and checked out the Little Fish site along with that other frame building forum (been 3-4 weeks since I registered, and no email yet). My question is, i'm a big guy (270# right now), are there any limits on lugged frames? This frame would basicly be a commuter type thing.
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The lugged joint is plenty strong, you just want to choose a tubing with a wall thickness to suit your weight. The only other restriction with lugs is that the frame geometry can only be tweaked so far, so if you're a very odd-sized human then it might be tough or impossible to use lugs..
~Steve
~Steve
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You'll be fine!
Stay away from the super light stuff -- and not just because your bigger, but because its more forgiving of the torch.
I started with a Dedachiai Zerotre set from Joe Bringheli. I picked up my dropouts from Henry James. He had some nice True Temper cromo tubes in various buttings. I bought my lugs from Nova, and they had tubing too.
All three were great too deal with.
Stay away from the super light stuff -- and not just because your bigger, but because its more forgiving of the torch.
I started with a Dedachiai Zerotre set from Joe Bringheli. I picked up my dropouts from Henry James. He had some nice True Temper cromo tubes in various buttings. I bought my lugs from Nova, and they had tubing too.
All three were great too deal with.
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Cool. I was looking at some stuff from Nova Cycles. I was looking at their steel tubset (https://www.novacycles.com/catalog/pr...oducts_id=1157)
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there are truly frames that won't do. Lugged frames are no exception.Frame material plays a major part as well. I got yammered off the Clydesdale forum for speaking my mind already from a couple of 300 pounders but so what. 753 for example is not acceptable for heavy riders, over 200 lbs so I've been told by :Bilenky, Sachs, Bob Jackson and others. Deda makes tubing that's the big NO-GO for 180 + EOM 16.5 is one example. 753 is no longer, that Deda and others still are used. Reynolds 853 is stiff "good" for large riders, probably fine but reynolds by the way,classifies rider over 175 as "large". I weigh 230-240, I'm too heavy,I make no bones about it. Some frames I ought not to ride. I can't ride my cousin's Arabian mare either, it's a Morgan or Hack horse for me. I accept the laws of physics and logic that prevails.
#6
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Originally Posted by old and new
there are truly frames that won't do. Lugged frames are no exception.Frame material plays a major part as well. I got yammered off the Clydesdale forum for speaking my mind already from a couple of 300 pounders but so what. 753 for example is not acceptable for heavy riders, over 200 lbs so I've been told by :Bilenky, Sachs, Bob Jackson and others. Deda makes tubing that's the big NO-GO for 180 + EOM 16.5 is one example. 753 is no longer, that Deda and others still are used. Reynolds 853 is stiff "good" for large riders, probably fine but reynolds by the way,classifies rider over 175 as "large". I weigh 230-240, I'm too heavy,I make no bones about it. Some frames I ought not to ride. I can't ride my cousin's Arabian mare either, it's a Morgan or Hack horse for me. I accept the laws of physics and logic that prevails.
Tim
#7
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Originally Posted by old and new
there are truly frames that won't do. Lugged frames are no exception.Frame material plays a major part as well. I got yammered off the Clydesdale forum for speaking my mind already from a couple of 300 pounders but so what. 753 for example is not acceptable for heavy riders, over 200 lbs so I've been told by :Bilenky, Sachs, Bob Jackson and others. Deda makes tubing that's the big NO-GO for 180 + EOM 16.5 is one example. 753 is no longer, that Deda and others still are used. Reynolds 853 is stiff "good" for large riders, probably fine but reynolds by the way,classifies rider over 175 as "large". I weigh 230-240, I'm too heavy,I make no bones about it. Some frames I ought not to ride. I can't ride my cousin's Arabian mare either, it's a Morgan or Hack horse for me. I accept the laws of physics and logic that prevails.
i've never been on a clydesdale forum nor posted about this thread's issue.
e-RICHIE©™®
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That's a good tubeset, but there aren't any lugs that will work with it unless you want to switch some of the tubes out. I don't think if they will subsitute tubes for those particular sets.
Nova does have a lot of good stufff in that price range that will work better with available mtb lugs.
Nova does have a lot of good stufff in that price range that will work better with available mtb lugs.
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There are three common lug set sizes for road bikes:
Standard - 1" top tube, 1-1/8" seat and down tubes, 1-1/4" head tube (for 1" steerer), 22.2mm (7/8") chain stay, and 14mm seat stays
Oversize (OS) - 1-1/8" top and seat tubes, 1-1/4" down tube, 1-1/4" head tube, either 22.2m round or 16x30mm oval chain stays, and 14-16mm seat stays
Super OS (slant 6 or Long Shin) - 1-1/4" top and seat tubes, 1-3/8" down tube, 36mm head tube (for 1-1/8" steerer tube), 16x30 chain stays, 16-17mm seat stays
The super OS tube sizes are good for the super big boys, although the lugs and tubes are fairly expensive thus there are better choices for first timers.
I recommend using regular OS sizes with heavy duty tubes - long butts and thick tubes. Something in the .9/.6 range should do the trick for the main tubes, .8-.9mm chain stays, 16mm by .7+mm seat stays. Brand and alloy type is not important contrary to what many people think - the tube manufacturers will pick an appropriate alloy to go with the tube gauge thickness.
If you do more digging there are OS tube size lugs that mate with a larger 36mm head tube if you want to try a 1-1/8" fork. Nova and Ceeway have some of these or can get them.
Good luck.
Standard - 1" top tube, 1-1/8" seat and down tubes, 1-1/4" head tube (for 1" steerer), 22.2mm (7/8") chain stay, and 14mm seat stays
Oversize (OS) - 1-1/8" top and seat tubes, 1-1/4" down tube, 1-1/4" head tube, either 22.2m round or 16x30mm oval chain stays, and 14-16mm seat stays
Super OS (slant 6 or Long Shin) - 1-1/4" top and seat tubes, 1-3/8" down tube, 36mm head tube (for 1-1/8" steerer tube), 16x30 chain stays, 16-17mm seat stays
The super OS tube sizes are good for the super big boys, although the lugs and tubes are fairly expensive thus there are better choices for first timers.
I recommend using regular OS sizes with heavy duty tubes - long butts and thick tubes. Something in the .9/.6 range should do the trick for the main tubes, .8-.9mm chain stays, 16mm by .7+mm seat stays. Brand and alloy type is not important contrary to what many people think - the tube manufacturers will pick an appropriate alloy to go with the tube gauge thickness.
If you do more digging there are OS tube size lugs that mate with a larger 36mm head tube if you want to try a 1-1/8" fork. Nova and Ceeway have some of these or can get them.
Good luck.
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Originally Posted by cs1
I'm riding a Waterford 1200 in 753. I'm glad that I weigh 150 lbs. Seriously, where did you come up with those weight limitations. My 230 lb brother is looking for a new frame. Does aluminum have the same restrictions?
Tim
Tim
As usual ,I'll say this ,I don't believe that I'm being radical. The OPs were "experts Iguess, they appeared as such, I thought I'd weigh-in,it's all about that here. It invites comments,we all can show individuals less experienced realistic points of view as opposed to flights of fancy. LESS RESTRICTIONS on ALUM.
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Digging up my old thread because I'm really starting to look at this. Been digging around Nova's site, even sent them a email with some questions, but didn't get a reply back. I'll prob make a pick list and post it here, just to make sure i'm not totally off on something.
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I just built my first frame and I'm a pretty big guy (6'2", 230). I used Nova's OS tubes (.9/.6/.9) and their stamped lugs (and MAPP gas). I wanted to try to keep the entry costs reasonable and I don't really notice a couple of extra pounds in the frame. The bike rides great so far.
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I like you have been kicking around the idea of building a frame, for a year now. I dont know about weight problems but good old fashion CROMO is great, like someone else remarked just don't buy the thin stuff, get the thick stuff. I have a small Mapp/O2 torch and three propane torches for plumbing. Do you have the book by Marc-Andre R. Chimonas, his videos have been pulled from you-tube. His videos are better then the book which is probably why he pulled them. Do you have welding, soldering, or brazing experience. I have arc welding experience for car fabrication, soldering for plumbing, and brazing for body work. I don't feel a bike project is to far out of reach.
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I just built my first frame and I'm a pretty big guy (6'2", 230). I used Nova's OS tubes (.9/.6/.9) and their stamped lugs (and MAPP gas). I wanted to try to keep the entry costs reasonable and I don't really notice a couple of extra pounds in the frame. The bike rides great so far.
Thanks
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Here's the torch I used: https://www.bernzomatic.com/PRODUCTS/...3/Default.aspx
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My old master builder before retiring and knowing he was going to retire he did his last 2 or 3 frames and repairs using regular propane gas with oxygen, as for the torch the only thing he told me was that he used a bigger tip and with ox/acet. But never told me the size of the tip or any other detail. As for the brazing material he said he used bronce with like 25% of silver or 15%, cant remember.
Thanks for the tips GUY, I always wanted to know exactly the torchs to use, beside i'm scare to hell of gas and fire hehehe
Thanks for the tips GUY, I always wanted to know exactly the torchs to use, beside i'm scare to hell of gas and fire hehehe
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there are truly frames that won't do. Lugged frames are no exception.Frame material plays a major part as well. I got yammered off the Clydesdale forum for speaking my mind already from a couple of 300 pounders but so what. 753 for example is not acceptable for heavy riders, over 200 lbs so I've been told by :Bilenky, Sachs, Bob Jackson and others. Deda makes tubing that's the big NO-GO for 180 + EOM 16.5 is one example. 753 is no longer, that Deda and others still are used. Reynolds 853 is stiff "good" for large riders, probably fine but reynolds by the way,classifies rider over 175 as "large". I weigh 230-240, I'm too heavy,I make no bones about it. Some frames I ought not to ride. I can't ride my cousin's Arabian mare either, it's a Morgan or Hack horse for me. I accept the laws of physics and logic that prevails.
If it's true that this much weight must break any 531 frame, and several 531 frames don't break when owned by big guys, something we thought was true just isn't true, correct? Maybe it's not true that these frame materials can't handle bigger riders. Maybe it's an example of frame tubing companies covering their a$$es.
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I always thought that there must be some ass-covering going on. I rode a rusty Columbus SL frame for years and can't find any cracks. OTOH, I don't think it's an easy stress analysis to do. I guess the experimentalist in me says that to really figure out how much a tubeset can take, you'd have to put a frame made from it on a test stand and let 'er rip.
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i'd want to start with how much can each tube take, in tension, bending, and torsion. Then test the lugs assembled on the tube - can you break a joint? But it takes a lot of equipment to test to failure.
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I used MAPP/air and used less than one canister for the whole frame & fork. For the bigger bits (BB, fork crown), I also used a propane torch (my plumbing tool) to help heat up the part. It takes a bit of patience and you have to focus on gradually getting the whole part up to the proper temp. I'm sure this would be much easier with O/A, but I couldn't swing that for my first frame.
Here's the torch I used: https://www.bernzomatic.com/PRODUCTS/...3/Default.aspx
Here's the torch I used: https://www.bernzomatic.com/PRODUCTS/...3/Default.aspx
Thanks
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Nocturnus, if you haven't yet been to the Henry James website, they have a helpful sheet of suggestions for beginning builders WRT tubing selection. Go to the PDF price list and scroll to the bottom, IIRC. It's conservative, but keeps you out of "broken frame" territory.
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