gsteinb

you can misuse any metric in the same way. Train by time and heart rate? What happens when you don't beat prior best times? Looking only at results? What happens when you hit a cruddy patch of the season. Just so happens guys talk about power a lot around here, so it might seem that it's power guys with that lack of understanding, but in actuality training by power is one of the best ways to avoid the kinds of patterns that lead to extended set backs.

shovelhd

Exactly.

waterrockets 

Yep. Embrace the data, but don't worship them.

furiousferret

I think that's a good analogy. I'm a numbers guy and enjoy looking up my data almost as much as my ride, but its really just a very accurate effort gauge. Many guys are much faster that don't use them. I think what frustrates people is they equate power totals to racing, and most races its about minimizing power output with the exception of a few small instances during the race. (Something I'm still learning).

Also remember, its only ewang if the numbers aren't impressive. It's like sexual harassment; If you're Tom Brady, its okay. Otherwise, its not.

hack

Very true...I think it may just be a different outlook on what the data mean and how it's used. I currently use heart rate as a guide to some extent (HOP rides, 2x20s, etc), time not much as there are so many variables at play (same could be said for HR). In addition, I use the old "did I get dropped and if so at what point" evaluation on harder rides.

With all that said, if there is a blip in performance on a single monthly test, I think it should be viewed as an outlier in your data set and shouldn't require a deep dive into the data mines to see what went wrong and who is to blame for the failure. However, if there is a trend of declining performance, then yes, time to check things out.

ovoleg

I always like furious' posts cause they're hilarious. haha lol'd hard at the above.

aaronmcd

I think it might be time to reset. I hear 3 months of build is standard anyway, and I think my best was last weekend (highest NP in a race and felt great). Then this weekend has been up in the air; not knowing if I'll be traveling for my gymnasts regional championships, or racing here.

I've decided the issue is most likely accumulated fatigue. It wasn't only the 20' test on Tuesday:
With this weekend unknown, I told myself "what the hell, I'll just wing it this week and see how I feel". Well, I did a group ride yesterday, planned to keep it easy and succeeded; stayed mostly in zone 2 for the climbs (except one fun bit of single track dirt climbing, and the final minutes of the final climb). But RPE > power data, and felt overly sore for 4 hours of mostly Z2. Noon ride today again RPE > power data.

I know I can look this stuff up, or read about it in the training bible (and probably will), but figured I'd ask what you guys do to reset mid-season before starting base/build again. Is it still ok to race weekends with no intensity mid-week? Or should I scrap racing for a week or two?

jsutkeepspining

i did 2 hours of z2 today, so i got that going for me

tetonrider

time to trot out this old favorite.

mike868y

oh man how have i never seen that before

rbart4506

Ok, so the jitz of it is don't post your power numbers

Ygduf

because being cagey on forums is much more likable.

how about just stop ascribing your own imagined inadequacies to them

mattm

Beach intervals today.

Ygduf

me too. took my brother and his wife to pescadero.

mattm

Sweet. We were at Gazos Creek nearby. Really secluded, but it got cold eventually.. can't wait til it warms up a bit more.

caloso

I tried Fatboy's intervals from the workout cookbook. Pretty damn hard, but not so hard that they are undoable. I can see them being part of my regular rotation.

rbart4506

It's too late in the night for me to decipher that...

BTW as the great Popeye said 'I am what I am'

furiousferret

Thursday Night Training Crit. Almost didn't make it because I've been babysitting a contractor all week and he insists on working late and missing lunches. The frustrating thing is just looking over his shoulder and watching him work I could write the code faster than he could.

Anyway, showed up just after the first lap, soft pedaled until they were a few hundred yards behind and decided to take a flyer to see how long I could stay off the front. I thought, I'll just do a massive run and then slot in and rest at 200w. Wrong. Used up too much energy and mismanaged the join and they blew by me. Took a few laps in, a few laps off, and did *better*. Figured out my biggest issue is soft pedaling into the corners, and had a few laps where I didn't have to put in a massive effort to keep up. Still far from perfect though.

I think some of the Cat 1's were helping me out. Kinda like in American History X when the black dudes helped out Edward Norton but wouldn't tell him.

Ygduf

wasn't intended to be directed at you personally, but the collective you or us that all have a reaction when someone else posts a number.

I have "big numbers" but I also have a "big" frame. If I ever mention a number (I haven't in a long time because people have weird reactions) it's because that number was good _for me_ or bad _for me_.

If anyone else posts a number, I read it in the context of what they post.

Unless it's JKS, in which case it's lies and adolescent insecurity.

rbart4506

Gotcha... I'm tired and should be in bed, my son told me so... He's a smart kid, smarter then dad I think...

echappist

thanks for bringing this back. i first saw it a few years ago (on velonews i think), but then it disappeared. i've looked high & low for it, but without avail. saving it to my hard drive

revchuck 

My inadequacies are NOT imaginary, thank you very much!

shovelhd

Seriously, not enough info.

When is is your next A race?
What are your goals for the season?
Do you need a mental break?
What is your rest week schedule?
Are there any other influences on your training (you mentioned gymnastics but not how this affects you)?

i have done midweek training races during break periods but I did not race on the weekends, for example.

echappist

Paging Dr. Wako. A hanging curveball is waiting to be slammed opposite field

oespinoza83

Tabata blocks. grrrrrr