Chinarello build (dhgate)
04-06-16, 01:37 PM
#126
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Interesting thread .... eventually.
We all know what knock-offs are—I would imagine we all know about fake Rolexes,. fake Louis Vuitton luggage,. and the very broad and lucrative faux-designer handbag industry ... simply because these things are mentioned in the various media (from news to “news” to sit-coms) so frequently... and for those few who knew nothing of intellectual property rights, hopefully, now you do.
So ... bicycles.
I wouldn’t go the “fake” route for personal reasons, and while I am arrogant enough to think i am always right and everyone should see things my way ... I am generous enough to let others make their own choices (so I can scorn them later. )
I like reading reports about folks buying fake bikes, because it is Information. I can recall when people crapped all over everyone buying Workswell ... now they are accepted as a legitimate lower-cost option. I understand that the knock-offs may be more hit-or-miss in terms of quality control ... but as more people report in about their builds and their rides, we can get Real-World data about how these things perform.
Yeah, I read the article about the knock-off frame with the voids and all ... but I am cynical enough to think that that too, could have been rigged. if I wanted to do what was essentially a scare-story to advertise my brand, I would deliberately buy the cheapest, worst, least reputable frame I could find ... I would even buy six or eight and only report on the worst one. Is that what actually happened? I have no clue ... but that article was PR, advertising, not just a warning to protect riders.
What I got from this thread is that at least a couple folks bought Chinarello Dog-piles and think they are good enough bikes for their (non-racing) purposes ... and that is real data. I also learned that while QC might not be first-rate, warranty service was. That is important.
I would like to hear more about people who ride these frames, and hopefully from people with a lot of miles on them.
To me it makes sense that if these frames are still on the market, not a lot of people must have died riding them, because if they were Really dangerous, the bike community would share that news (even more widely than it shares the apparently baseless hysteria it shares now.)
I figure what we have here are sort of the bike version of fake Gucci handbags ... as long as all the owner does is carry make-up and a wallet, it works fine. Maybe these frames wouldn’t hold up through many seasons of crit racing (or maybe they would) but in any case, they are good enough for most riders.
Come on ... the mis-assembled crap sold at Wal-Mart has got to be more dangerous than most knock-offs, and nobody panics when parents by (literally) the millions buy them for their kids (I don’t like children either, so we are all good with that.)
Look, if people want to debate the morality of buying knock-offs ... there are a lot of issues there, but I am not seeing where Pinarello is about to declare bankruptcy. We don’t really need to debate that.
Equally, we don’t really need to debate the personal taste issues ... trust me, I could write pages about the self-satisfied, anal-retentive, OCD riders who seriously believe that the labels have to face a certain way on their wheels ... and everybody else’s. Some folks want to wear the high-end labels ... to me, if it is on a real product or a knock-off ... not a good reason to make the purchase, but that is just me. You can do whatever, and live your own life however. if it works for you and doesn’t hurt anyone else much .... Ride what you like and paint it how it pleases you.
Back to bikes again ... let’s listen to what these people say. Let’s get real-world data from actual experiments, and form Valid opinions. How about that for a shocking departure from the norm?
We all know what knock-offs are—I would imagine we all know about fake Rolexes,. fake Louis Vuitton luggage,. and the very broad and lucrative faux-designer handbag industry ... simply because these things are mentioned in the various media (from news to “news” to sit-coms) so frequently... and for those few who knew nothing of intellectual property rights, hopefully, now you do.
So ... bicycles.
I wouldn’t go the “fake” route for personal reasons, and while I am arrogant enough to think i am always right and everyone should see things my way ... I am generous enough to let others make their own choices (so I can scorn them later. )
I like reading reports about folks buying fake bikes, because it is Information. I can recall when people crapped all over everyone buying Workswell ... now they are accepted as a legitimate lower-cost option. I understand that the knock-offs may be more hit-or-miss in terms of quality control ... but as more people report in about their builds and their rides, we can get Real-World data about how these things perform.
Yeah, I read the article about the knock-off frame with the voids and all ... but I am cynical enough to think that that too, could have been rigged. if I wanted to do what was essentially a scare-story to advertise my brand, I would deliberately buy the cheapest, worst, least reputable frame I could find ... I would even buy six or eight and only report on the worst one. Is that what actually happened? I have no clue ... but that article was PR, advertising, not just a warning to protect riders.
What I got from this thread is that at least a couple folks bought Chinarello Dog-piles and think they are good enough bikes for their (non-racing) purposes ... and that is real data. I also learned that while QC might not be first-rate, warranty service was. That is important.
I would like to hear more about people who ride these frames, and hopefully from people with a lot of miles on them.
To me it makes sense that if these frames are still on the market, not a lot of people must have died riding them, because if they were Really dangerous, the bike community would share that news (even more widely than it shares the apparently baseless hysteria it shares now.)
I figure what we have here are sort of the bike version of fake Gucci handbags ... as long as all the owner does is carry make-up and a wallet, it works fine. Maybe these frames wouldn’t hold up through many seasons of crit racing (or maybe they would) but in any case, they are good enough for most riders.
Come on ... the mis-assembled crap sold at Wal-Mart has got to be more dangerous than most knock-offs, and nobody panics when parents by (literally) the millions buy them for their kids (I don’t like children either, so we are all good with that.)
Look, if people want to debate the morality of buying knock-offs ... there are a lot of issues there, but I am not seeing where Pinarello is about to declare bankruptcy. We don’t really need to debate that.
Equally, we don’t really need to debate the personal taste issues ... trust me, I could write pages about the self-satisfied, anal-retentive, OCD riders who seriously believe that the labels have to face a certain way on their wheels ... and everybody else’s. Some folks want to wear the high-end labels ... to me, if it is on a real product or a knock-off ... not a good reason to make the purchase, but that is just me. You can do whatever, and live your own life however. if it works for you and doesn’t hurt anyone else much .... Ride what you like and paint it how it pleases you.
Back to bikes again ... let’s listen to what these people say. Let’s get real-world data from actual experiments, and form Valid opinions. How about that for a shocking departure from the norm?
Great post, I was a little out there earlier but i decided to pull my posts until I have done a better and longer review of my bike. I will continue to ride and continue to update my thoughts on the bike. Will keep posted. I haven't ridden much lately but feel free to follow me on strava and ask questions about the bike as I ride it. Here is my strava profile strava.com/athletes/1864802
04-06-16, 04:38 PM
#127
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How many anecdotes does it take to make data?
There are boards on other forums, devoted to Chinese frames, which have been in existence for many years now, and which collectively contain thousands of such anecdotes of people using various frames in the real world- which, IMO, is far superior to some "researcher" acquiring a few frames and subjecting them to various lab tests which are designed to "simulate real world conditions"- but of course, never really do; nor can they tell anything about how the product fares over time in various environments. Real data is that which is collected from the real world, not that which is acquired from a limited number of experiments conducted under artificial conditions.
Remember all of that "scientific data" of the last 40 years which all unanimously agreed that eggs, butter and salt were akin to arsenic? LOL!
There are boards on other forums, devoted to Chinese frames, which have been in existence for many years now, and which collectively contain thousands of such anecdotes of people using various frames in the real world- which, IMO, is far superior to some "researcher" acquiring a few frames and subjecting them to various lab tests which are designed to "simulate real world conditions"- but of course, never really do; nor can they tell anything about how the product fares over time in various environments. Real data is that which is collected from the real world, not that which is acquired from a limited number of experiments conducted under artificial conditions.
Remember all of that "scientific data" of the last 40 years which all unanimously agreed that eggs, butter and salt were akin to arsenic? LOL!
04-06-16, 05:01 PM
#128
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Actually, a very good post ... but not really relevant.
"data" really just means "information." [da·tum [ˈdādəm, ˈdadəm] NOUN------ a piece of information. (Oxford Dictionaries)
So an anecdote (entertaining story, personal story (I didn't reference this one---you can if you need to)) can contain data. Not every anecdote is full of misinformation, badly interpreted information, confusion ... it depends on the Quality of the information.
If a person says "I rode my Chinarello Dogpile for 10K miles last year" ... either he is lying or it is data. If six more say the same thing ... the data are that at least seven Chinarellos were sufficiently well built to cover that distance in that amount of time. Unless you buy a Chinarello and ride it regularly for a year, you have no scale by which to judge the veracity of those "anecdotes."
The "data" in the online article was in no way more trustworthy---the people who wrote the article have a vested interest. On the other hand, it is not necessarily less trustworthy---unless you are buying a dozen random knock-off frames and cutting them all open, you are Deciding who to trust based on your own biases and predilections.
We are led to believe that "anecdotes" are just people talking, and those people might be totally mis- or uninformed, or might draw completely logically unsupportable conclusions. Actually, even scientists in laboratories poring over supposedly "scientific" data can do that. Ask Tycho Brahe.
Fact isd, a fact is whatever two or more concerned parties decide is a fact---and sometimes, even in the face of contradictory evidence. On the other hand, the factual status of that "evidence" ....
So yes, if a number of satisfied Chinarello customers post here concerning their actual riding history and experience with the bikes, we will have "Data."
I notice, nobody questioned that the bike came with a cracked bolt and a mis-threaded BB shell ... because those anecdotal plot points fit with the prejudices and predilections of the audience. But ... should someone say that his Chinarello has provided hours of safe and enjoyable cycling ... suddenly the guy is not a valid source of "data."
Okay. So tell me, did the bike show you a valid birth certificate?
"data" really just means "information." [da·tum [ˈdādəm, ˈdadəm] NOUN------ a piece of information. (Oxford Dictionaries)
So an anecdote (entertaining story, personal story (I didn't reference this one---you can if you need to)) can contain data. Not every anecdote is full of misinformation, badly interpreted information, confusion ... it depends on the Quality of the information.
If a person says "I rode my Chinarello Dogpile for 10K miles last year" ... either he is lying or it is data. If six more say the same thing ... the data are that at least seven Chinarellos were sufficiently well built to cover that distance in that amount of time. Unless you buy a Chinarello and ride it regularly for a year, you have no scale by which to judge the veracity of those "anecdotes."
The "data" in the online article was in no way more trustworthy---the people who wrote the article have a vested interest. On the other hand, it is not necessarily less trustworthy---unless you are buying a dozen random knock-off frames and cutting them all open, you are Deciding who to trust based on your own biases and predilections.
We are led to believe that "anecdotes" are just people talking, and those people might be totally mis- or uninformed, or might draw completely logically unsupportable conclusions. Actually, even scientists in laboratories poring over supposedly "scientific" data can do that. Ask Tycho Brahe.
Fact isd, a fact is whatever two or more concerned parties decide is a fact---and sometimes, even in the face of contradictory evidence. On the other hand, the factual status of that "evidence" ....
So yes, if a number of satisfied Chinarello customers post here concerning their actual riding history and experience with the bikes, we will have "Data."
I notice, nobody questioned that the bike came with a cracked bolt and a mis-threaded BB shell ... because those anecdotal plot points fit with the prejudices and predilections of the audience. But ... should someone say that his Chinarello has provided hours of safe and enjoyable cycling ... suddenly the guy is not a valid source of "data."
Okay. So tell me, did the bike show you a valid birth certificate?
04-07-16, 10:33 AM
#130
I see you over there
Thread Starter
OP, the worst part is that most unbranded choices would have come with a better warranty, sported a better reputation, and been an honest representation of what they are. If you really weren't trying to fool folks, you could have accomplished all your goals with a Hong-fu, Deng-fu or Workswell frame. Taken the challenge and learned how to build a bike without the obvious lie.
LoL..... Wow.... For not giving a crap you sure seem to give a crap. You may want to reread my reply before you go calling me a hater. I dont believe I said anything negative about your bike. Ride it, love it and enjoy it but i will call a spade a spade. There are hundreds of chinese open mold frames out there but you chose the one with PINARELLO boldly stickered on the downtube and there is only one reason to do that and that is to make people think that you are riding a "fancier" bike then you are. You sir do give a crap what people think.
The difference, IMO, between unbranded and knock-off frames is not just quality control. That would suggest that both makers were trying to build a top quality frame, but the unbranded frame just got more rigorous QC and QA. I think the intent of the two makers is different, not just the QC and QA. Workswell is trying to build a good frame. Chinarello is just trying to make a fake and the quality of the product is of no interest. Only the appearance matters. Once again, IMO.
Great post, I was a little out there earlier but i decided to pull my posts until I have done a better and longer review of my bike. I will continue to ride and continue to update my thoughts on the bike. Will keep posted. I haven't ridden much lately but feel free to follow me on strava and ask questions about the bike as I ride it. Here is my strava profile strava.com/athletes/1864802
04-07-16, 11:01 AM
#131
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haha sorry man, i had made some comments earlier but deleted because i wanted to put in the miles before I tell people more about my bike. I saw your thread and I decided to build one similar and see it for myself. I had posted on here about my build but pulled it. Sorry for crashing your thread, and I apologize for the slight harsh comments i made to other people on your thread. Well I guess I can share to you so far what I've got. I got the same frame as you but used different parts. Frame size is 57.5cm, used full SRAM Force that was on my other bike and random other parts. My bike came out to 16.5lbs with bottle cages and pedals (without the light in the picture). So far I've done about 120 miles on it. I like it so far but will do more riding before I post more about it. Thanks again for your thread. I had messaged you earlier about the bike size and strength (before I got mine). Thanks for the recommendation.
04-07-16, 11:58 AM
#132
I see you over there
Thread Starter
haha sorry man, i had made some comments earlier but deleted because i wanted to put in the miles before I tell people more about my bike. I saw your thread and I decided to build one similar and see it for myself. I had posted on here about my build but pulled it. Sorry for crashing your thread, and I apologize for the slight harsh comments i made to other people on your thread. Well I guess I can share to you so far what I've got. I got the same frame as you but used different parts. Frame size is 57.5cm, used full SRAM Force that was on my other bike and random other parts. My bike came out to 16.5lbs with bottle cages and pedals (without the light in the picture). So far I've done about 120 miles on it. I like it so far but will do more riding before I post more about it. Thanks again for your thread. I had messaged you earlier about the bike size and strength (before I got mine). Thanks for the recommendation.
Last edited by espi-JG; 04-07-16 at 12:18 PM.
04-07-16, 12:10 PM
#133
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I am honestly impressed with the quality so far for being so cheap. I actually ended up getting it from AliExpress. Basically same thing. I got the wheels from AliExpress also for $300. The frame was $500. I didnt have any issues with the BB thread, and used a new SRAM GXP BB and fit for just fine. One of the seat post bolts was very tight to go in, but it went in just fine. I honestly havent had any issues at all (surprisingly). I am currently having issues with my front break though because I cut the cable housing too short (noob mistake) so it's pulling the right side of the caliper a little. I need to get a longer housing for the front break. So for now, I cant tighten the caliper all the way close to the wheel, need a little gap so the left pad doesn't hit while im not squeezing. It's an easy fix.
04-07-16, 12:23 PM
#134
I see you over there
Thread Starter
Cool, GL man! We gotta update this thread every few months to give "real world data" and help out other people in our shoes. Honestly I can't believe these frames aren't more popular. I love mine.
04-07-16, 01:26 PM
#135
wears long socks
03-29-17, 05:18 PM
#136
I see you over there
Thread Starter
OP here, thought I'd give an update 1 year later.
Not a single thing has asploded, in fact there hasn't been one problem mechanically. The chinese carbon integrated bars have been replaced by 3T Ergonovas and a Thomson X2. My flexibility increased and I needed a longer stem. The 1 piece bars are still intact just not being used. The chinese fizik saddle was replaced almost instantly, now I'm using a Specialized Toupe. The Conti GP4KSII's werent as puncture resistant as I'd hoped, so now I'm using Hardshells.
I hope this real world evidence will be educational. Happy riding!
Not a single thing has asploded, in fact there hasn't been one problem mechanically. The chinese carbon integrated bars have been replaced by 3T Ergonovas and a Thomson X2. My flexibility increased and I needed a longer stem. The 1 piece bars are still intact just not being used. The chinese fizik saddle was replaced almost instantly, now I'm using a Specialized Toupe. The Conti GP4KSII's werent as puncture resistant as I'd hoped, so now I'm using Hardshells.
I hope this real world evidence will be educational. Happy riding!
03-29-17, 07:57 PM
#138
Senior Member
Few things come to mind. I'm surprised BikeForums doesn't have a policy about counterfeits. On another forum where there is a lot of discussion of factory direct, there is no talk of counterfeits.
It's become more sketchy now, Aliexpress now that they have significant western investors and are the official data hosts for Olympics, they have been cracking down on counterfeits. The sellers get around this by not posting pictures and just put a blank page with Email for pictures, so you know it's a counterfeit.
As others have mentioned, these bikes are of unknown origin. The sellers are not the manufacturers and they provide no information.
HongFu, DengFu, WorksWell, Yishun, Flyxii, ICAN, TopFire, LTKBikes are all verified. There is a real company behind the frames and there is customer service.
- Many of these are also sponsors of race teams.
- TopFire I know sponsor a few teams in Taiwan/China.
- LTKBikes frames are used by Ribble.
- DengFu sponsors Monda Rabobank team, rebranded as KRUSH.
- Yishun bikes are rebranded as GIOS in Italy
- You can also find a few postings of fans who have visited and toured these factories and seen the kind of tools, machinery, QC, R&D and testing these frames undergo.
- There are plenty of videos and anecdotes of users of these frames that have been successful in CAT 4/5 races with podium finishes, multi year reviews etc.
Point being the companies above can provide certificates they pass all safety regulations in the US, EU, AU and JPN. HongFu can also provide paperwork some of their bikes are UCI legal.
I think for a public forum like this, there is some responsibility when talking about machines that can place riders at risk. We all know there are catastrophic failures from every brand, every brand has multiple recalls. But with each recall it seems these companies are pressured to make changes. The Chinese factory direct are not under those pressures, but you can clearly see with each iteration, they improve and adapt the improvements, for example, HongFu and DengFu use EPS manufacturing process. With knowledge of who made these bikes, with customer service, it's easier and more responsible way to assess the worthiness and safety of these bikes. I don't see how counterfeits can be verified for their safety. If a user wants to take their risk, it's their right, but it seems irresponsible to vouch safety for a frame you know nothing about.
- I don't see how it is possible to vouch for a frame when you don't know who made it, what safety regulations it has been tested for, if they have a QC. As another said, we don't know if a seller on DHGate or AliExpress has one or multiple sources for the F8, I suspect there many factories trying to cash in on Dogma F8, F10, Cipollini etc.
- If a user here was to vouch for a seller for a counterfeit F10 he bought, he can't guarantee another forum member that he will be getting the same frame from the same factory etc.
That's my 2 cents regarding Chinese Direct frames.
It's become more sketchy now, Aliexpress now that they have significant western investors and are the official data hosts for Olympics, they have been cracking down on counterfeits. The sellers get around this by not posting pictures and just put a blank page with Email for pictures, so you know it's a counterfeit.
As others have mentioned, these bikes are of unknown origin. The sellers are not the manufacturers and they provide no information.
HongFu, DengFu, WorksWell, Yishun, Flyxii, ICAN, TopFire, LTKBikes are all verified. There is a real company behind the frames and there is customer service.
- Many of these are also sponsors of race teams.
- TopFire I know sponsor a few teams in Taiwan/China.
- LTKBikes frames are used by Ribble.
- DengFu sponsors Monda Rabobank team, rebranded as KRUSH.
- Yishun bikes are rebranded as GIOS in Italy
- You can also find a few postings of fans who have visited and toured these factories and seen the kind of tools, machinery, QC, R&D and testing these frames undergo.
- There are plenty of videos and anecdotes of users of these frames that have been successful in CAT 4/5 races with podium finishes, multi year reviews etc.
Point being the companies above can provide certificates they pass all safety regulations in the US, EU, AU and JPN. HongFu can also provide paperwork some of their bikes are UCI legal.
I think for a public forum like this, there is some responsibility when talking about machines that can place riders at risk. We all know there are catastrophic failures from every brand, every brand has multiple recalls. But with each recall it seems these companies are pressured to make changes. The Chinese factory direct are not under those pressures, but you can clearly see with each iteration, they improve and adapt the improvements, for example, HongFu and DengFu use EPS manufacturing process. With knowledge of who made these bikes, with customer service, it's easier and more responsible way to assess the worthiness and safety of these bikes. I don't see how counterfeits can be verified for their safety. If a user wants to take their risk, it's their right, but it seems irresponsible to vouch safety for a frame you know nothing about.
- I don't see how it is possible to vouch for a frame when you don't know who made it, what safety regulations it has been tested for, if they have a QC. As another said, we don't know if a seller on DHGate or AliExpress has one or multiple sources for the F8, I suspect there many factories trying to cash in on Dogma F8, F10, Cipollini etc.
- If a user here was to vouch for a seller for a counterfeit F10 he bought, he can't guarantee another forum member that he will be getting the same frame from the same factory etc.
That's my 2 cents regarding Chinese Direct frames.
Last edited by zymphad; 03-29-17 at 08:07 PM.
03-30-17, 08:02 AM
#139
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"We have analyzed several FALSE frames which have been confiscated via International Customs Authorities. These frames have been passed through the most elementary of resistance testing. The results showed worrying structural failures that can cause serious damage and / or death to the rider."
GENUINE PINARELLO DEALERS, PUT A FACE TO THE NAME. 4 RULES TO DETECT A FALSE PINARELLO ? CICLI PINARELLO S.p.A.
I am surprised anyone would want a replica of a bike. I would much rather have an off-branded one not trying to be something it isn't. Unless you are trying to fool other riders that you have a nicer bike, I don't really see the point. I don't have anything against inexpensive carbon frames, but I mean, why label your bike as something it isn't? I really don't get it. It isn't going the replicate the same ride quality, strength, carbon material used, stiffness, etc... Sure, it'll ride and look cool. But I just don't get how anyone would really want a look-a-like. You can find very high end carbon bikes used for the same price you paid.
GENUINE PINARELLO DEALERS, PUT A FACE TO THE NAME. 4 RULES TO DETECT A FALSE PINARELLO ? CICLI PINARELLO S.p.A.
I am surprised anyone would want a replica of a bike. I would much rather have an off-branded one not trying to be something it isn't. Unless you are trying to fool other riders that you have a nicer bike, I don't really see the point. I don't have anything against inexpensive carbon frames, but I mean, why label your bike as something it isn't? I really don't get it. It isn't going the replicate the same ride quality, strength, carbon material used, stiffness, etc... Sure, it'll ride and look cool. But I just don't get how anyone would really want a look-a-like. You can find very high end carbon bikes used for the same price you paid.
Last edited by JBerman; 03-30-17 at 08:06 AM.
03-30-17, 08:16 AM
#140
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"We have analyzed several FALSE frames which have been confiscated via International Customs Authorities. These frames have been passed through the most elementary of resistance testing. The results showed worrying structural failures that can cause serious damage and / or death to the rider."
GENUINE PINARELLO DEALERS, PUT A FACE TO THE NAME. 4 RULES TO DETECT A FALSE PINARELLO ? CICLI PINARELLO S.p.A.
I am surprised anyone would want a replica of a bike. I would much rather have an off-branded one not trying to be something it isn't. Unless you are trying to fool other riders that you have a nicer bike, I don't really see the point. I don't have anything against inexpensive carbon frames, but I mean, why label your bike as something it isn't? I really don't get it. It isn't going the replicate the same ride quality, strength, carbon material used, stiffness, etc... Sure, it'll ride and look cool. But I just don't get how anyone would really want a look-a-like. You can find very high end carbon bikes used for the same price you paid.
GENUINE PINARELLO DEALERS, PUT A FACE TO THE NAME. 4 RULES TO DETECT A FALSE PINARELLO ? CICLI PINARELLO S.p.A.
I am surprised anyone would want a replica of a bike. I would much rather have an off-branded one not trying to be something it isn't. Unless you are trying to fool other riders that you have a nicer bike, I don't really see the point. I don't have anything against inexpensive carbon frames, but I mean, why label your bike as something it isn't? I really don't get it. It isn't going the replicate the same ride quality, strength, carbon material used, stiffness, etc... Sure, it'll ride and look cool. But I just don't get how anyone would really want a look-a-like. You can find very high end carbon bikes used for the same price you paid.
03-30-17, 08:18 AM
#141
Nonsense
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Again, buying a knockoff Pinarello is shady and gross. I am glad the bike has not exploded under you, at least.
03-30-17, 09:00 AM
#142
Senior Member
HongFu, DengFu, WorksWell, Yishun, Flyxii, ICAN, TopFire, LTKBikes are all verified. There is a real company behind the frames and there is customer service.
- Many of these are also sponsors of race teams.
- TopFire I know sponsor a few teams in Taiwan/China.
- LTKBikes frames are used by Ribble.
- DengFu sponsors Monda Rabobank team, rebranded as KRUSH.
- Yishun bikes are rebranded as GIOS in Italy
- You can also find a few postings of fans who have visited and toured these factories and seen the kind of tools, machinery, QC, R&D and testing these frames undergo.
- There are plenty of videos and anecdotes of users of these frames that have been successful in CAT 4/5 races with podium finishes, multi year reviews etc.
Does a bike being UCI certified instill more confidence in the brand? My LBS has some Taiwanese bike that I had never heard of before with a decent price, and it's certified.
03-30-17, 10:54 AM
#143
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Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE
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it's the Galileo defense: "Still ... it moves."
Everything people say about buying knock-offs is true. You have no idea if what you are buying is held together only by those decals which were really you paid for ... and if yours is great, the next guy might buy one which cracks and breaks under the weight of a hard stare.
On the other hand, we have these two guys with Chinarellos they love, which seem still to be providing good service.
Not how I would do it, but .... Their bikes still move.
Everything people say about buying knock-offs is true. You have no idea if what you are buying is held together only by those decals which were really you paid for ... and if yours is great, the next guy might buy one which cracks and breaks under the weight of a hard stare.
On the other hand, we have these two guys with Chinarellos they love, which seem still to be providing good service.
Not how I would do it, but .... Their bikes still move.
03-30-17, 01:33 PM
#144
Senior Member
Good info. GIOS bikes are marketed in Japan as well. They have advertisements in the cycling magazines here, so I had thought they were will known for a while.
Does a bike being UCI certified instill more confidence in the brand? My LBS has some Taiwanese bike that I had never heard of before with a decent price, and it's certified.
Does a bike being UCI certified instill more confidence in the brand? My LBS has some Taiwanese bike that I had never heard of before with a decent price, and it's certified.
03-30-17, 03:43 PM
#145
Senior Member
Does anyone know if Pinarello actively seeks out the counterfeiters? Just curious.
It seems like Rolex isn't really concerned about the cheap counterfeits sold on the streets of NYC. I always assumed Rolex didn't get concerned because the fakes were so obvious and that folks trying to counterfeit somehow makes their brand more prestigious.
Don't really know if the Pinarello fakes are very obvious or not.
It seems like Rolex isn't really concerned about the cheap counterfeits sold on the streets of NYC. I always assumed Rolex didn't get concerned because the fakes were so obvious and that folks trying to counterfeit somehow makes their brand more prestigious.
Don't really know if the Pinarello fakes are very obvious or not.
03-30-17, 03:48 PM
#146
Recusant Iconoclast
In the broad landscape of IP and patent protection, Pinarello is tiny, relatively speaking. Heck, if Microsoft can't pin down the counterfeiters, and fake Apple stores sprung up in China without Apple knowing about it, what's Pinarello's chances?
03-30-17, 05:23 PM
#147
Senior Member
Does anyone know if Pinarello actively seeks out the counterfeiters? Just curious.
It seems like Rolex isn't really concerned about the cheap counterfeits sold on the streets of NYC. I always assumed Rolex didn't get concerned because the fakes were so obvious and that folks trying to counterfeit somehow makes their brand more prestigious.
Don't really know if the Pinarello fakes are very obvious or not.
It seems like Rolex isn't really concerned about the cheap counterfeits sold on the streets of NYC. I always assumed Rolex didn't get concerned because the fakes were so obvious and that folks trying to counterfeit somehow makes their brand more prestigious.
Don't really know if the Pinarello fakes are very obvious or not.
And as I said, Aliexpress is cracking down. Most of them do not advertise with pics or the name, it's just 2017 new model, email for pics.
08-07-17, 02:37 PM
#148
I see you over there
Thread Starter
OP back again
Still no problems, I can't recommend this route enough. I wanted longer crank arms so I went with Ultegra.
Still no problems, I can't recommend this route enough. I wanted longer crank arms so I went with Ultegra.
08-08-17, 08:47 AM
#150
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Surprise, a Pinarelllo dealers is telling you not to buy a fake....how convenient. I am not saying the information is true or not but I would like to see an independent or third party make that analysis. It is in the best interest of the dealers to discourage you. They would never come out and say they are structurally safe.