Blazing a New Route - How Would YOU Do It?
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Blazing a New Route - How Would YOU Do It?
There are hundreds of ways to map a new route. Obviously. I'm working on this new route with Google Earth, DeLorme Atlas's, and Ride with GPS. My method is to check the atlas for the general direction of where I want to ride, then input it into Ride with GPS. I use a pencil to mark the route in the atlas, and then punch that info into the app. Its clunky, but its all I have right now. Next season, my plan is to travel this route and work out all the bugs. My question is this: Are there better ways of mapping a route? If so, what should I use?
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A little more background might be helpful. Where are you planning to go? How far do you plan to ride? Are you riding loaded or unloaded? Gravel or pavement?
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I really never or rarely use a paper map for any planning. I use RWGPS primarily, checking on Googgle Satelitte as needed and on GAIA GPS for additional details about roads.
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^ this!
I mean, there aren't really new routes, just novel ways of traveling on existing paths. Prehistoric people followed game animals and reinforced useful paths; colonizers followed aboriginal paths, and so on.
Google says their cycling directions are still in Beta testing and might put you in uncomfortable situations, however, they're useful for overall planning, at least in the United States.
I mean, there aren't really new routes, just novel ways of traveling on existing paths. Prehistoric people followed game animals and reinforced useful paths; colonizers followed aboriginal paths, and so on.
Google says their cycling directions are still in Beta testing and might put you in uncomfortable situations, however, they're useful for overall planning, at least in the United States.
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#6
Hooked on Touring
Google Maps is not always your best friend.
Plus, RWGPS and other apps use Google or others as their bae mapping.
You know - you do a search for "Slobovian music" and get 693 hits -
but they all say the exact same thing.
Granted, it's far better than using a AAA map back in 1987,
but there can still be unwelcome surprises from being too dependent ot tech.
Also, don't forget that there are still places where you can't get a signal.
Or, worse, your batteries run out.
The single most important thing when cyling is the amount of traffic.
Most states have AADT (Average Annual Daily Traffic) maps.
[<500-super; to 1000-good; to 2000-fair; to 4000-poor; over 4000-tough]
Also important are shoulders and speed limits. Over 4000, even over 2000, you need shoulders.
An empty road with low speeds is ideal, no?
Be willing to go a few extra miles on your bike.
And, perhaps, climb a few extra hills, turn a few extra turns.
People in a hurry will take the most direct route.
But the old road is not always a guarantee of low traffic -
Especially if the high school is there and just getting out.
Have fun.
Plus, RWGPS and other apps use Google or others as their bae mapping.
You know - you do a search for "Slobovian music" and get 693 hits -
but they all say the exact same thing.
Granted, it's far better than using a AAA map back in 1987,
but there can still be unwelcome surprises from being too dependent ot tech.
Also, don't forget that there are still places where you can't get a signal.
Or, worse, your batteries run out.
The single most important thing when cyling is the amount of traffic.
Most states have AADT (Average Annual Daily Traffic) maps.
[<500-super; to 1000-good; to 2000-fair; to 4000-poor; over 4000-tough]
Also important are shoulders and speed limits. Over 4000, even over 2000, you need shoulders.
An empty road with low speeds is ideal, no?
Be willing to go a few extra miles on your bike.
And, perhaps, climb a few extra hills, turn a few extra turns.
People in a hurry will take the most direct route.
But the old road is not always a guarantee of low traffic -
Especially if the high school is there and just getting out.
Have fun.
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I like to walk the entire path (on foot) before actually hitting it up with any bike. Helps you get a feel for things first, things can be fast paced while riding and difficult to get a feel for surface conditions firsthand,
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#8
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As an aside we met Bjorn Suneson in 2007, he was running across the US. He was a Stockholm native, who at age 71 in 2019 finished his seventh unsupported run across the United States. I think he finished in under 100 days the year we met him (2007) and when we met him he was doing 40 mile days due to the lack of services where we were. He was self supported carrying his stuff in a baby jogger.
As I recall, his brother joined him on roller blades for one trip US coast to coast.
Last edited by staehpj1; 10-22-21 at 08:34 AM.
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1. Define segments: I use Google Maps to generate a rough draft for the entire trip and then search for campgrounds or alternative options WRT spending the night, water supply, markets etc.
2. Generate segments: From overnight x to overnight x+1. First with gMaps to get an idea of the distance, then on bRouter to get a more detailed profile
3. Send the GPX file to my phone. Final edit (remove TBT coursepoints and add critical waypoints), then push to my navigation device (Garmin Enduro).
Now, the question was fairly vague.
Step 1 can take quite a bit of time and effort in order to identify and locate POIs. I personally feel that nothing beats gMaps because of the search function, among other things. I also use several other touring resources (ex: Lonely Planet, Michelin) to flag interesting destinations and exclude others that will be overcrowded.
Step 2 (essentially making sure that a day's route is of reasonable length/difficulty) can also require more time depending on the type of touring. If following an ACA or Eurovelo route, typically a no brainer. If "custom", it depends on the type of terrain and is sometimes impossible to assess properly -- in these cases, alternative fallback plans are useful.
Step 3 -- I like to be able to design a route offline on my phone, which is why I use Locus Pro (with the relevant offline maps and bRouter routing dBase). I then push the final route to my watch, attached to the stem -- probably the most efficient nav system
2. Generate segments: From overnight x to overnight x+1. First with gMaps to get an idea of the distance, then on bRouter to get a more detailed profile
3. Send the GPX file to my phone. Final edit (remove TBT coursepoints and add critical waypoints), then push to my navigation device (Garmin Enduro).
Now, the question was fairly vague.
Step 1 can take quite a bit of time and effort in order to identify and locate POIs. I personally feel that nothing beats gMaps because of the search function, among other things. I also use several other touring resources (ex: Lonely Planet, Michelin) to flag interesting destinations and exclude others that will be overcrowded.
Step 2 (essentially making sure that a day's route is of reasonable length/difficulty) can also require more time depending on the type of touring. If following an ACA or Eurovelo route, typically a no brainer. If "custom", it depends on the type of terrain and is sometimes impossible to assess properly -- in these cases, alternative fallback plans are useful.
Step 3 -- I like to be able to design a route offline on my phone, which is why I use Locus Pro (with the relevant offline maps and bRouter routing dBase). I then push the final route to my watch, attached to the stem -- probably the most efficient nav system
#12
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There are hundreds of ways to map a new route. Obviously. I'm working on this new route with Google Earth, DeLorme Atlas's, and Ride with GPS. My method is to check the atlas for the general direction of where I want to ride, then input it into Ride with GPS. I use a pencil to mark the route in the atlas, and then punch that info into the app. Its clunky, but its all I have right now. Next season, my plan is to travel this route and work out all the bugs. My question is this: Are there better ways of mapping a route? If so, what should I use?
I do ride with a GPS but I use it for recording purposes only. I’ve tried to follow it but it is usually yelling at me for not following the route…I might find a more interesting route…or it gives up because I’m so far off the route.
Bottom line: be flexible.
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Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
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Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
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I will be travelling through some really great trout country, so I will definitely take my tenkara rod.
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I use Ride with GPS as a planning tool only. It gives me a general outline of where I want to go and the total distance I’d like to travel. But, as Eisenhower said, “no plan survives contact with the enemy”. On the ground, I plan my day from one campground (or other accommodation) to another. For that I usually use Google Maps and, even then, I don’t follow those instructions slavishly. An example, I was riding down the Delaware River near Stroudsburg, Pa. Google gave me a route that went up into the local hills and would have been a tough ride. But, on the ground, there was a road in front of me that was called Delaware Road or Federal Road. It followed the river and went downhill. It was also a very low traffic road. I took that one.
I do ride with a GPS but I use it for recording purposes only. I’ve tried to follow it but it is usually yelling at me for not following the route…I might find a more interesting route…or it gives up because I’m so far off the route.
Bottom line: be flexible.
I do ride with a GPS but I use it for recording purposes only. I’ve tried to follow it but it is usually yelling at me for not following the route…I might find a more interesting route…or it gives up because I’m so far off the route.
Bottom line: be flexible.
Many have said they don't use paper maps, but I don't think it would be wise to leave them on my initial trip. My plan is to map a challenging trail that other people would like to ride when I'm done. Where I'm headed its a bjillion acres of wooded BFE nothingness. Nothing but trees and water (pronounced watta up heah). So a wrong turn could easily cost me the progress made in a day. I'm not afraid of failure at all, but I do work with a sense of urgency and purpose, and I must be precise. Can't help it. So using my paper maps will be necessary for this grouchy old throwback. My old business partner is still bugging me to come out of retirement. If he's successful, meaning if he lobs enough money at me, I might not be taking this trip at all.
Question to you, Stu: What GPS should I get now? I have a Wahoo Element, which is satisfactory for normal riding, but its map features kinda suck. Should I just break down and buy a nice handheld GPS?
Also just a note to anyone interested - I would love to have a partner for this. Holler if you got some time next summer, late August into September timeframe.
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Since most of your travels will be on gravel road, I would suggest using an app like GAIA or CaTopo for trip planning. I personally use my iPhone as my GPS device, however I’m seriously thinking about getting a Garmin Bike or Hiking specific GPS unit paired with my Garmin Inreach Mini SATCOM device that I can import the GPX files to.
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Ride with GPS for final route - helps me navigate through unfamiliar cities. I often refer to googlemaps for planning - especially street view if available. www.gravelmap.com is another resource I use often.
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This
Gaia GPS is used by a lot of the overlanding community. Likely has the best data base off non-paved roads that I've seen. It uses their own topo, plus/or National Geographic, and/or USGS Topo. Nothing is really and completely up to date, I was just watching an overlanding guy in a Wrangler on the logging roads of northern Maine. I believe he was using Gaia. He did comment on how the computer map had errors but this is to be expected as the companies that own the land do not update for the public.
But your on a bike so it's sometimes easier to get past a bridge washout or such where a vehicle could not.
Gaia GPS is used by a lot of the overlanding community. Likely has the best data base off non-paved roads that I've seen. It uses their own topo, plus/or National Geographic, and/or USGS Topo. Nothing is really and completely up to date, I was just watching an overlanding guy in a Wrangler on the logging roads of northern Maine. I believe he was using Gaia. He did comment on how the computer map had errors but this is to be expected as the companies that own the land do not update for the public.
But your on a bike so it's sometimes easier to get past a bridge washout or such where a vehicle could not.
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Be flexible. Definitely. NOTHING I do ever comes out like it did when planning it in my head. Nothing!
Many have said they don't use paper maps, but I don't think it would be wise to leave them on my initial trip. My plan is to map a challenging trail that other people would like to ride when I'm done. Where I'm headed its a bjillion acres of wooded BFE nothingness. Nothing but trees and water (pronounced watta up heah). So a wrong turn could easily cost me the progress made in a day. I'm not afraid of failure at all, but I do work with a sense of urgency and purpose, and I must be precise. Can't help it. So using my paper maps will be necessary for this grouchy old throwback. My old business partner is still bugging me to come out of retirement. If he's successful, meaning if he lobs enough money at me, I might not be taking this trip at all.
Many have said they don't use paper maps, but I don't think it would be wise to leave them on my initial trip. My plan is to map a challenging trail that other people would like to ride when I'm done. Where I'm headed its a bjillion acres of wooded BFE nothingness. Nothing but trees and water (pronounced watta up heah). So a wrong turn could easily cost me the progress made in a day. I'm not afraid of failure at all, but I do work with a sense of urgency and purpose, and I must be precise. Can't help it. So using my paper maps will be necessary for this grouchy old throwback. My old business partner is still bugging me to come out of retirement. If he's successful, meaning if he lobs enough money at me, I might not be taking this trip at all.
Question to you, Stu: What GPS should I get now? I have a Wahoo Element, which is satisfactory for normal riding, but its map features kinda suck. Should I just break down and buy a nice handheld GPS?
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Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
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I find having maps in my head to be liberating in a way. And I still use PGS—Paper Guidance System. Also known as cue sheets. Phone as a backup.
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This
Gaia GPS is used by a lot of the overlanding community. Likely has the best data base off non-paved roads that I've seen. It uses their own topo, plus/or National Geographic, and/or USGS Topo. Nothing is really and completely up to date, I was just watching an overlanding guy in a Wrangler on the logging roads of northern Maine. I believe he was using Gaia. He did comment on how the computer map had errors but this is to be expected as the companies that own the land do not update for the public.
But your on a bike so it's sometimes easier to get past a bridge washout or such where a vehicle could not.
Gaia GPS is used by a lot of the overlanding community. Likely has the best data base off non-paved roads that I've seen. It uses their own topo, plus/or National Geographic, and/or USGS Topo. Nothing is really and completely up to date, I was just watching an overlanding guy in a Wrangler on the logging roads of northern Maine. I believe he was using Gaia. He did comment on how the computer map had errors but this is to be expected as the companies that own the land do not update for the public.
But your on a bike so it's sometimes easier to get past a bridge washout or such where a vehicle could not.
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This
Gaia GPS is used by a lot of the overlanding community. Likely has the best data base off non-paved roads that I've seen. It uses their own topo, plus/or National Geographic, and/or USGS Topo. Nothing is really and completely up to date, I was just watching an overlanding guy in a Wrangler on the logging roads of northern Maine. I believe he was using Gaia. He did comment on how the computer map had errors but this is to be expected as the companies that own the land do not update for the public.
Gaia GPS is used by a lot of the overlanding community. Likely has the best data base off non-paved roads that I've seen. It uses their own topo, plus/or National Geographic, and/or USGS Topo. Nothing is really and completely up to date, I was just watching an overlanding guy in a Wrangler on the logging roads of northern Maine. I believe he was using Gaia. He did comment on how the computer map had errors but this is to be expected as the companies that own the land do not update for the public.
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Do you have a photographic memory, Indy? I do. Its not a super-powerful, everything-precise, like the character, Lisbeth Salander, in The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, but its not bad when it comes to remembering how something looked. I'll forget someone's name 30 seconds after we meet, but I will never forget their face. Images seem to stick in my head. She had Asperger's, and so do I. Everyone is different. My sense of direction is uncanny. My wife hates to drive with me anywhere because I usually know instinctively how to get there, and without GPS she is blind as a bat. I'm still remembering stupid stuff on a regular basis. Like a street intersection in Germany from 40 years ago - I still remember every detail. Why does the image of that street pop into my head? Or like a cathedral I visited in Spain. I keep seeing images of the inside and of the altar, and that's been going on for at least 20 years. Weird. Anyway, yeah so I can surely relate to your map-less talents.
#24
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At first I read this and told myself that this info had to pertinence to my original question, but after some consideration, I now think that it matters a lot, so thank you! I'm planning a bikepacking adventure for next season, and it will be through about 300 miles (as the crow flies, so it will probably be at least 350 miles by the time I'm done) of logging roads owned by the paper companies. I will be riding bikepacking-style, with some measure of fully-loaded traditional touring setup as well. It will be like 50/50 bikepacking/fully-loaded, i.e. a traditional ortlieb handlebar bag, but I'll use my Nelson Longflap on the back. I once modified my Revelate Sweetroll and Harness to attach to the saddle like a touring saddlebag. It worked like a champ, I tells ya!
I will be travelling through some really great trout country, so I will definitely take my tenkara rod.
I will be travelling through some really great trout country, so I will definitely take my tenkara rod.
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I've been watching these guys - Wheels to Wander
I like to watch these guys. They aren't pros, well, they dont seem like pros. Down to earth. The girl is very easy on the eyes. They did all of their touring using only phone apps, and they explain how they did it in one of their videos. I kind of envy them having each other as good partners. I lost my best touring buddy just after covid hit. It wasnt covid - it was melanoma. Finding a new partner isnt easy. No one interested has the time. No one with the time available wants to make a commitment. I have an old high school friend that would love to go, but we're seriously incompatible. Another friend just had shoulder replacement on one side and he gets the other done in the Spring, so he's out. My son in law would love to go, but he is disabled marine that had a tangle with an IED and now he's got loads of issues. I'll go alone if I have to, but I'm still looking.
I like to watch these guys. They aren't pros, well, they dont seem like pros. Down to earth. The girl is very easy on the eyes. They did all of their touring using only phone apps, and they explain how they did it in one of their videos. I kind of envy them having each other as good partners. I lost my best touring buddy just after covid hit. It wasnt covid - it was melanoma. Finding a new partner isnt easy. No one interested has the time. No one with the time available wants to make a commitment. I have an old high school friend that would love to go, but we're seriously incompatible. Another friend just had shoulder replacement on one side and he gets the other done in the Spring, so he's out. My son in law would love to go, but he is disabled marine that had a tangle with an IED and now he's got loads of issues. I'll go alone if I have to, but I'm still looking.