Need help with cones
07-05-23, 10:12 AM
#26
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Okay now I see where you are coming from. Just guessing but most folks (not pro bike mechanics) probably have measurement tools that are not metric. Having to do a conversion isn't a terrible thing. To insist that those with imperial measuring tools convert to your chosen standard seems to be arrogant snobbery to me.
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07-05-23, 10:36 AM
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07-05-23, 11:17 AM
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07-05-23, 11:42 AM
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07-06-23, 01:32 PM
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SAE standards are not standards? Lots of things still use imperial units. Military hardware is still obstinately imperial units.
Lots of bike parts are still imperial units. Like headsets, pedals, bottom brackets. The only thing standard on bikes through the years have been all the new standards.
Learn to think in two sets of units. Sort of like being bilingual. Or buy a digital caliper. They usually support either sets of units.
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07-06-23, 04:06 PM
#31
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one possible reason for the persistence of imperial (fractional inch) units in the bike industry is that after WW2 the italian industrial base was re-tooled with machine tools from the US and England.
Those machines did not have metric lead screws. So they could turn a metric diameter but could ony cut threads of imperial dimension.
at least that is how it was once explained to me. Portlandjim might have more to say about that.
/markp
Those machines did not have metric lead screws. So they could turn a metric diameter but could ony cut threads of imperial dimension.
at least that is how it was once explained to me. Portlandjim might have more to say about that.
/markp
07-06-23, 04:33 PM
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one possible reason for the persistence of imperial (fractional inch) units in the bike industry is that after WW2 the italian industrial base was re-tooled with machine tools from the US and England.
Those machines did not have metric lead screws. So they could turn a metric diameter but could ony cut threads of imperial dimension.
at least that is how it was once explained to me. Portlandjim might have more to say about that.
/markp
Those machines did not have metric lead screws. So they could turn a metric diameter but could ony cut threads of imperial dimension.
at least that is how it was once explained to me. Portlandjim might have more to say about that.
/markp
This is absolutely correct. Before the advent of CNC, machinery took measurements based on the pitch of a lead screw. Since, there is no rational multiplier for converting metric to imperial or vice versa, machines could only produce threaded parts based on their own lead screw.
Note, the above applies only to "generated" threads. Those that were made with taps and dies were unaffected, since the tooling had enough float to correct for error.
Last edited by FBinNY; 07-06-23 at 04:37 PM.
07-06-23, 07:37 PM
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I see some pitting. Do what the pros do. Wheels Mfg. makes replacement cones and axles. Measure the axle diameter, the small diameter of the race, the length of the race, the large diameter of the race, and the overall length of the cone. Match taper of the race by eyeball at https://wheelsmfg.com/products/hub-parts/all-cones.html. If you replace the axle, too, you won't have to measure the threads. Or take the axle to your local bike shop hand have them measure and order.
07-08-23, 11:07 AM
#34
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This cone from https://wheelsmfg.com/products/hub-p...s/cn-r082.html seems to fit the bill. (I still need to find out what size ball bearing that takes before I order. Anybody know offhand? Mine are .187"/4.75mm)
Thanks again.
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Last edited by sknhgy; 07-08-23 at 11:44 AM.
07-11-23, 08:09 AM
#35
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Two of those cones, plus shipping from Wheels Mfg comes to $40.69. I'm going to hit up some more bike shops before ordering there.
Thanks for all the help.
Thanks for all the help.
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07-11-23, 10:41 PM
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Nothing you can do to improve the cones. These surfaces are loosely akin to ice crusted snow, namely a hard surface covering a softer core. Polishing will only remove more o f the critical hard skin.
There are sources for replacement cones, if not an exact match, at least close enough to serve well. However the seals are much harder to find, if at all.
Looking at them, they're not terrible, and in your shoes, I'd use new balls, good quality grease, and careful adjustment to minimum preload. Then ride.
BTW while this wear will feel rough when spinning the axle in your fingers, the actual difference when riding is about as close to zero as one can imagine.
There are sources for replacement cones, if not an exact match, at least close enough to serve well. However the seals are much harder to find, if at all.
Looking at them, they're not terrible, and in your shoes, I'd use new balls, good quality grease, and careful adjustment to minimum preload. Then ride.
BTW while this wear will feel rough when spinning the axle in your fingers, the actual difference when riding is about as close to zero as one can imagine.
I found some cones for old campy hubs I was trying to re-hab for a vintage Italian build I was doing and found some similar-period rims and hubs. (also my first wheel build). I can't really remember the details, but I found some from, IIRC, Wheels Manufacturing using some pretty simple measurements. The hub is smooth seems to work well even though I'm pretty sure the the cones weren't identical.
In retrospect, I probably could have gotten away with just using the imperfect cones with new balls, grease and careful pre-load as you suggest, and accepted a tiny bit of roughness that was present before I started. But it was a fun project.
I have been totally self taught in bike mechanics beginning in the 70s with "Glen's" encyclopedic book on bike repair. But never any "hands on" mentoring or instruction. I always thought that wheel bearings needed to be perfectly smooth, or darn close to it. Only recently has a respected professional mechanic told me - in reference to a different cone and cup wheel bearing I was messing with that was a little rough: "that's just fine". I never realized!
Last edited by Camilo; 07-11-23 at 10:45 PM.
