andthelike

I have a 1972 Raleigh Super Course frame that I'm building up as an all around commuter/tourer/ rough stuff fellowship bike. I'm working with a good local bike shop, but we have run into a roadblock that is giving us a headache. the bike originally had 27 1 1/4" tires, that are being changed to 700C. in addition, we spaced the rear hub to fit a 9 speed cassette, which was changed to a 8 speed to work better with the 8spd 3x crank. however, after all of this, we found that the chain runs extremely close to the chainstay, and rubs in the smallest cog on the crankset. the rear cassette is 11-28. I'm not positive what the chain rings are. Anyone have any ideas what the issue could be? or have an suggestions for a drive train that would work easily?
Thank you!

BFisher

Can you add pics to your gallery so we can get a visual of the issue? Is it rubbing at the rear dropout, or elsewhere?

I had my '73 Super Course set up with a 3x7 Shimano indexed system a while back and it worked well.

andthelike

I'm going to be away from the bike for a ~week so unfortunately can't get picks until then. its rubbing the chainstay on the cable housing keeper, about where it crosses through the rear triangle. I apologize, I know this isn't a very good description without any photos.

OldCoot

If I understand correctly the smallest cog is causing the chain to hit the cable stop on top of the chainstay ( as noted earlier photo helps). I can suggest 4 possible solutions offered in least difficult to more difficult order.
1. Try sliding the rear hub axle back in the dropout, which will also raise the axle. Not likely to work, but super easy to try at no cost.
2. Swap out the 11t cog for a 12 or 13. When this bike was made, 13t rear cog was the smallest offering that could fit on a freewheel.
3. If you haven't properly re-spaced the old ( distance between drop outs) to 130, do so and realign. Again not likely to work, but it's the right thing to do when running 9 speeds.
4. Reroute the cable below the chainstay. Get a clamp on chainstay cable stop or cable stop(s) and also some shift cable housing and Reroute until there's no interference. Then cut off the offending cable stop.

Personally I would go with a 12t or 13t cog. I rarely use the 11t, especially if running a 52t chainwheel up front. #4 will be a kludge and look ugly, but most like work.

Take a photo and let us know what you are going to do. Good luck.

andthelike

these are all great suggestions. I don't think I'll go with 4, because while I have no issues with janky solutions, as evident by this hodgepodge build, I really want to avoid cutting up the frame. #2 would likely work, though its an 8speed cassette now, but I think #3 is the most likely issue. we just kinda spread them apart and put some spacers on to get it to fit together properly. the wheel is centered well, but since we did it by hand, I could see something being out of wack there.

Pcampeau

Getting a master mechanic with frame straightening tools involved is the best solution. The rear dropouts need to be realigned after spreading to 130mm.

SJX426 

Here is a 14 tooth with 42 on a 1973ish Bottecchia

gugie 

I think you guys are on the wrong path with respacing. When you put the wheel in it's already respaced, it's just sprung open. I agree that this probably should be done, but it won't solve the the chain rubbing issue. Putting a different (larger) smallest cog on may help, depending on where the chain is rubbing. If it's on top of the chainstay, that'll probably do the trick, but I think it's more likely rubbing on the inside of the chain stay, which may help. Adding one more washer on the drive side stack will almost certainly do the trick.

USAZorro

I have a Super Course of the same year which I have "cold set" all the way to 135mm. I'm running a 9 speed cassette off the end of a Sturmey Archer RSC hub with a triple up front (the infamous 81-speed). NO issue with chain rub. Why? Because I know how to use spacers at the axle and to dish the wheel accordingly (as gugie suggested is the issue here). I concur that this is the most likely reason for your issue, although, if your frame is tweaked, that might be the cause.

OldCoot

I agree that respacing the rear will do little, but it should help make things run better once the issue is resolved.

Hadn't thought about a washer, good idea. Typically one on each side? How thick?

Also your point about rubbing on the inside, would rule out a larger cog as a solution, though I understood the OP to say on top. Again a photo would be helpful.

As I recall these Supercourse came in a beautiful green.

gugie 

@USAZorro nailed it. On a freewheel system, the hub bearings on the drive side are significantly inboard from the dropout, and there's significant stress on the axle. Modern cassette type hubs essentially eliminate that issue - the hub bearings are out near the dropout.




So if you're running a freewheel system, you can optimize it by making the axle locknut just clear the freewheel enough so the chain doesn't hit the chainstays. You do this with spacers. I recently modified a Campy high flange rear hub to fit a 7 speed freewheel, swapping out the axle for a slightly longer one.

Any futzing around with axle spacers will require a bit of redishing of your rear wheel to keep it centered on the frame, as noted by others, above.

SJX426 

OH!
Went from this 6V
P9161254 on Flickr

to this 7V
PA121374 on Flickr

dschell

I have a 75 Motobecane ran into same problem, 12 tooth first solved it. I believe if memory serves I got the idea from Sheldon Brown s website

andthelike

I confirmed with the bike shop that the issue is with the chain line, which he knew before I asked this question. thank you all for the suggestions! I'll probably revisit this if I figure out a more specific question.

branko_76 

This may sound radical but another alternative would be to build it as a 10-speed, you know, 2 chain-wheels and 5 rear cogs.

andthelike

how dare you make such a reasonable and practical suggestion!
Jokes aside, we figure that the chainline issue is most likely due to a mix of the MTB triple we put on just not playing well with the frame geometry, plus as others pointed out, the small cog in the rear being a bit too small. We are going to switch it out with a road 2x, which should hopefully line up everything much better.

andthelike

just to put this to rest for anyone that ever stumbles across this, the problem turned out to be a tweaked frame. A trip to a friends who has frame straightening tools sorted it out.
It's now built up with 700c wheels and a 2x8 drivetrain with microshift bar ends in friction mode. oddly enough the original center pull brakes had enough length to stay on.

merziac

So get some more posts so you can show us pics, or it didn't happen.

You only need 4 more to get there.

branko_76 

no surprise, I've restored a few Super Course and Grand Prix bikes from the early 1970's and none of the frames were in alignment

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...alignment.html