narr33

A car hit me today as she did not yield coming out of a fast food place. She was cited, I need a new wheel and helmet. I wear a yellow helmet and bright red jersey but she claims she did not see me. I think I will use daytime flashers from now on. Does anyone use them? Any recommendations?

UmneyDurak

Just an open ended question for some thought. Do you really think the problem was that you were not visible enough, or that she didn't pay attention, you miss judged her cluelessness, didn't leave escape routes open? No need to answer all those questions here, just something to think about.

Blue Order

My first thought when I saw this thread was of a seedy guy in a raincoat.

I think daytime flashers are a good idea, front and rear. I don't have a front light, but plan to get one sort of soonish. When I do, I will run on flash mode in the daytime, with two blinkies in the rear, and solid mode at night, with a solid rear and two blinkies.

They probably will STILL say they didn't see me.

Of course, I think that "claim" would be pretty solid evidence of a failure to keep a proper lookout, so let them say it. Right into this microphone...

Blue Order

Blinky recommendations: Planet Bike Blinky Super Flash or Cateye TL-LD1000, both bright enough for daylight use.




BTW, that driver owes you a new helmet and wheel, plus whatever doctor bills you have (a rider was recently hit in Portland, and thought he was OK, until the next day...). Her citation, and admission that she wasn't keeping a proper lookout, should be all you need to collect from her insurance company. Make sure you notify her insurance company, though, just in case she doesn't...unless she offers to pay all your expenses out of her own pocket.

narr33

Visibility was good in terms of weather and road conditions, so I think it was a matter of not paying attention. I am thinking of how this could be prevented in the furture. Maybe, even if the driver was a little distracted a flashing light would have caught their attention for just that second and the accident could have been avoided. Half of my riding is at night but after 1.5 years of commuting full time all my close calls have occured during the day. One of my bikes has a generator hub and LED light that I leave on during the day and it seems to me that cars are less likely to cut me off when this light is on.

Helmet Head

Visibility is not enough. You need to be conspicuous too. What's the difference? A woman walking down a sidewalk might be perfectly visible, but what will make her conspicuous is if she takes off her clothes. In other words, being conspicuous means you draw attention. A daytime blinky might help with that, but so will using a more conspicuous lane position - being out there were motorists are looking for traffic, rather than off to the side where bicyclists usually ride, especially when faster same direction traffic is not present (which was presumably the case here or she would have cut them off too). Remember, you're trying to be conspicuous from the point of view of the driver - and that point of view includes paying most of their attention to those areas where traffic is mostly likely to conflict with them. So that's where you should be riding in order to be conspicuous to those drivers with whom you are mostly like to have a conflict.

StrangeWill

2nded, being as I'm a delivery driver, I can say again, helmut, it has nothing to do with lane positioning, people sometimes just don't pay attention, you'll need to account for that and learn to read people in cars.

Helmet Head

That fact that people sometimes just don't pay attention doesn't mean being conspicuous has nothing to do with lane positioning. It is true that sometimes motorcyclists are overlooked even when they are riding in the most conspicuous lane positions, but they still teach you to ride there in motorcycle safety courses, and for good reason. That's also where your vantage and safety buffers tend to be best too.

But of course you also have to learn to read drivers. Getting to be good at that is an important aspect of traffic safety, regardless of whether you're bicycling, motorcycling, or driving a car or truck.

But if you would like your reading of drivers to result in finding drivers that overlook you much less often, learning to choose a conspicuous lane position is a big part of getting there.

Blue Order

Did you even bother to read his post before your fingers ht the keyboard with that canned response?

He said she failed to yield as she was coming out of a fast food joint.

Lane position-schmane position. Maybe we could all chip in and buy you a clue.

Helmet Head

Yes, I read it!
She did not notice him, almost certainly because he was riding in a bike lane or off to the side where she was paying little or no attention, and not riding where she almost certainly was paying most of her attention: out in the traffic lane.

Bekologist

Savvy bicyclists run daytime visible blinkies front and rear. these help increase visibility REGARDLESS of road position.

The new high powered LED systems on flash are visible DURING THE DAY to a half mile or better (personal observations among the Seattle commuting peloton) and will get you better, quicker 'conspicuity' than any lane position will.



Head, your pet 'theories' don't hold water amongst the experienced bicyclists:

bicyclists get overlooked REGARDLESS of road position, dude. it WILL happen to you someday as you get more miles under your tires as a solo commuter.

narr33

to clarify: there was no shoulder at this point in the road I had the lane. Helmet makes a good point about lane position but it is relatvent in this case. Anyway being conspicuous is what I am after - apparently wearing yellow and red is not always enough.

JeffB502

I've had a couple of "didn't see me" moments that have encouraged me to use daylight visible flashers.

The first I was doing about 25mph on a 5 lane (2 each way, wide outside lanes with parking, center turn lane) 35mph business district. I was riding to the far left of the lane due to parked cars and to increase my visibility to people coming out of driveways. A pickup truck driver coming the other way apparently didn't see me, and started a mid-block left turn in front of me. We both came to quick stops and didn't hit each other, but I was amazed he didn't see me until it was almost too late. The sun was high in the sky and I was wearing a nearly new ANSI lime safety vest. After that incident I started running daylight visible forward-facing flashing lights.

Another interesting incident I had I was riding in the middle of the lane on the 2 lane (passing legal at most points) 55mph portion of my commute. An elderly woman coming up behind me clearly did not see me in the middle of the lane, and was coming at me at full speed (I could tell because I was watching her in my mirror). As she was nearing the point where emergency braking would fail to keep her from hitting me and I was looking for places to bail, she finally slammed on the brakes and slowed down to my speed. I had been wearing my hi-vis vest at that time, and again it was a great day as far as visibility, but that didn't appear to be enough. After that I decided to get a Dinotte 140L. I was so pleased with the first one that when they went on sale I got a 2nd one.

Here's a link to a short video I just made showing my lighting setup.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iib3EYEr9a4

Blue Order

Is that the Dinotte? I didn't realize they have a flash mode...

Bekologist

so the cyclist in the OP was taking the lane AND wearing high vis colors, head!

narr33

JeffB502

A great setup - that's what I'm looking for. Thanks

JeffB502

Yeah. The current ones have 3 flash modes (5 quick flashes with the light on constant low, slow single flashes with the light on constant low, and a slow flash with the light completely off between flashes) and 3 steady modes (low, medium, high).

Bekologist

The Niterider Minewt X2, Trinewt, and the Light & Motion Stella are 3 other quality rechargeable systems to consider for front lighting bright enough for serious daytime conspicuity, narr33.

narr33

The dumb thing about the accident is that I had a Niterider Classic light on the bike but because it was during the day and had no blinking mode it was not turned on. I'm glad I survived this one but now I am going to do all I can to be seen - that mean lights during the day as well.

Helmet Head

Where in the lane were you riding? In particular, where were you laterally relative to where you would expect a motorcyclist to be positioned?

Blue Order

Thanks! I've just changed my mind about how I'm going to set up my lights.

CB HI

Cateye TL-LD1100 is now available and is a little brighter and not quite as heavy. Performance Bike sells both for the same price right now. $40

narr33

Helmet
I was about a foot left of the white line. The road splits to form a Y soom after.

Helmet Head

No, he was not taking the lane, Beck.

Thank you. That's what I thought... "as far right as practicable" and not in what I would call a conspicuous lane position.
You did nothing wrong. Perfectly legal.
I'm just saying that you could make yourself surprisingly more conspicuous simply by riding about 6-10+ feet to the left of the white line, rather than a foot. Having a mirror and learning to use it effectively in order to establish and maintain rearward situational awareness is very helpful so that you can adjust lateral lane position accordingly based on whether faster traffic is approaching from behind or not. Any time faster same direction traffic is not present, I'm way out there in the lane, precisely to greatly reduce (not eliminate - nothing can do that) the chance of being overlooked like you were, but also to improve my vantage and safety buffer space.

We could argue about whether a daylight blinky or lane position is more effective at making you conspicuous, but all I can tell you is that by habitually adopting a conspicuous lane position, I have no need to make myself more conspicuous with daytime blinkies, though I've recently begun to turn on my rear red SuperFlash on gray/overcast days, just in case. It seems to help draw attention to me when I'm riding in a bike lane, attention that is diminished ironically because I'm in the bike lane (and thus not in "their" lane so of less relevance to them).

narr33

Thanks for all your comments and suggestions. I ordered a Denotte 140L-AA-A amber daylight (the use of standard size batteries was a big selling point) for the front and will use a Cateye TL-LD1100 for the rear.